Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting VLDS or NBT love um or hate um

i may be blasted here but oh well i got thick skin
! the new contoversial bullet here seems to be berger vld hunting bullets not passed judgement on them myself yet but was kinda thinking they work a lot like nosler BT's but yet some of the same people that hate NBT love the VLD is there really much diff in there profomance after striking game ? as for working range in vol. dont know the low vol. for NBT but have seen some where that the VLD is listed at 1800 fps same as ttsx

I like and use them both. Rapid expansion and excellent accuracy are the norm for both. Have been using the B-Tips for a long time now, since they were introduced. To me it seems like the Ballistic Tip expands faster, on impact, while the VLD penetrates through, into the chest cavity before really opening up.

My use has been on mule deer for the most part, and mostly with smaller calibers, 6mm & .257" dia.

Might just be interesting to hear from some of the guys who have done a lot of deer-killing with them both.

BT's have a lower BC, but I shoot and love them both. I haven't used the Bergers, because the Hornady Amax's work SOOO well. I see no reason to change. Amax's are half the price of Bergers as well. If I'm going long over 600 yards, I prefer the Amaxs. Both perform fabulous for me. I am one that couldn't care less about exit holes, which neither provides very often. It doesn't matter, because no tracking is involved with either bullet. Stuff just crumples on the spot. I have shot most of the premiums in various calibers and I always go back to ballistic tips and Amaxs. I like the "dead right now" results they both provide in a MUCH wider range of velocities. The premium bullets have a VERY narro sweet spot where they perform at their best. The VLDS have a MUCH larger sweet spot. Flinch

I never had much use for NBT's. I killed a couple deer with them several years ago and was not impressed. In last couple of years I have killed a couple antelope and a couple deer with them and am starting to change my mind. The thing I have found with BT's are when your shot is a little off it still delivers plenty of trauma. I shot partitions for years and never seen the damage that I have seen with BT's in shots that did not hit bone.

Dink

Like Flinch, count me as another over of the BT and the A-Max. They just kill schitt

I have no use for either.

The VLD's and BT's work very well on the elusive Gela'lope.

Unfortunately, the animals I hunt are vertebrates. Heavy bones can wreak havoc on a fragile bullet.

If this thread is moved to the varmint hunting forum, I will praise them all day.

For the bashers... How many elk have you sent one into? Curious.

Common sense can be used in life. Who was it that said "When something doesn't seem quite right, it usually isn't"?

I have no intention of experimenting with (what I perceive to be) a marginal bullet on a large game animal.

There are too many other options out there that I believe will perform when the chips are down.

Why do cable-show-groupies get so offended when folks say they will not use a certain bullet?

I hate it when people review things they have never used. YMMV.

Common sense will get you far, sometimes. But your theories do not match experiance. Naysayers with nay experiance will not sway my choice of bullet. Shoot what you want.

Have had good luck with NBT's. Shot an elk last season in WY with ine. Ranged 439 yds out of a 300WSM. Didn't take a step. Where I hunt it will be mostly long shots so I want a bullet that will open up when velocity starts to drop off.
John

Marketing fads are great, aren't they?

I personally have never stood in long lines to get "Cabbage Patch Dolls" or "Beenie Babies", but do not criticize those that do.

If they work, use them.

I hate it when folks make ridiculous assumptions.

Just because I have chose not to use VLD's or BT's on larger game, please do not assume I have not shot them.

Assumptions like never using a bullet on something and then discussing how bad they would be? Carry on with what you like to use, as will I.

A thought or two this morn from frozen Big Sky country.

First off, I've been a heavy user of the NBT since it came out. I've found it accurate and eager to please and a terror on game! Meaning it doesn't take any work for them to perk in my rigs. So, they shoot very well, have plenty of BC for me. I realize that other bullets have higher BC's, but at long range which 4 me is 400-700 (while taking big game) I'll be using either dotz or turrets so that doesn't matter one bit to me. I can easily sight in a scope with dotz to hit to 700 with one BC as I can one with a BC that's close. And with turrets I only need turn in a skosh more and I'm there, so the extra BC is a non issue for me.

In my years of using NBT's I can recall finding exactly 3 of them. One was a 55 NBT out of my 6/06 that took out both fronts of a whitey @ 190 yds and I found it just under the skin. Another was with a 55 NBT out of my 22/250 on a big bodied muley, 150 yds or so thru both fronts and I found it just under the skin about to keep going. And lastly, a sizeable bull taken at just under 200 yds with a 200 NBT out of my 338/06. Bullet took out a shoulder, went up and broke the neck and we found it in the skull cap (bullet looked model perfect).

But other than that all bullets have exited and I/we've taken a couple two or three arks full of game with them. They exit and give me two holes which is something I like. Now I rarely need them but they're there if I the need arises. Typically the critters just bounce and its game over very quickly. And I'm using behind the shoulder shots for the most part.

So if you haven't noticed by now I likey the NBT's, they work and I don't have to dick with trying a new bullet. Something I've grown tired of over the years..

Amaxes, hardly any experience with them. Shot the 162 a bit in my Mashburn. It shot ok but not as good as the 150 NBT has so I didn't go there anymo. A couple good buds used the bullet when it first came out and had some issues with it so that's probably colored my desire to work them. The 155 Amax shoots very well out of a couple 30's (WSM, Wby) and I may need to give it a go for giggles.

The Bergers have given me fits in terms of getting them to shoot the way I want (same with the Scirrocco's, and yet all else get them to work). The one gun of mine they shoot in is my short barreled 788 in 7/08. That one with R17 and 168's shoots bug holes and did so from the start. But so does the 139 Horn, and being as I doubt the gun will ever be used past 500 I'll most likely stick to the Horn as it's cheaper and it'll do all the killing I need it to do.

So, the Bergers haven't really floated my boat. My experience has been they're more money, they're tougher to get to perk and I see no bene from the extra BC. Plus, and for me this is important I like two holes in game.

I feel, and I could be wrong on this as I am wrong plenty but I'd guess with time some of the novelty of the Bergers will wear off. People will use them less and less and go back to their old stand by's. And and I could be way wrong on this but I'd bet that with time some stories of ugly killings happening coming out of the wood work. Hope not, but I wouldn't be suprised if that didn't happen. I have a big suspicion of things that appear to be all rosey when things are still in their honey moon stages.

Guessin I'll be driving the NBT's more...

Either way, I don't care what people drive as long as they shoot straight, shoot often and get out there and get it done!

Have a super 2011 all!

Dober

I like the idea of a Berger, but have had poor luck getting them to shoot in my rifles. Shot deer, elk and antelope with the NBT though. Going to try Accubonds instead of NBT's on elk in the future.

...............48 hogs and 1 bull elk est at about 750 lbs through the thickest part of right shoulder bone = 49 to 0 in favor those damn (marketing fad-hype), useless and frangible VLDs.

And btw Mr Werner, if you think that a VLD cannot penetrate thick elk or hog bone, then you greatly under-estimate their capability to do so (as never having used them yourself on elk?).

Experience can be a very good teacher, as opposed to assumptions made by those who have never used them on elk and other game.

Many VLD detractors such as yourself (which is ok btw; happens on every VLD thread), automatically assume that so-called match bullets or so called frangible bullets, just aren`t meant for use on big game such as elk. Nevermind of course, that most VLD detractors haven`t used them on elk and usually won`t try to because of their pre-conceived assumptions and notions of what the proper big game hunting bullet should be.

Us VLD users don`t care about complete broadside or pass through penetrations. The vitals for elk and most big game animals are loacated in the center of the animal towards the front if I`m not mistaken? So complete penetrations are not all that important for we VLD users, because its those vitals that need to be disrupted. A bullet partially penetrating a possible tree on the other side of the animal serves what purpose?

Us VLD users are not concerned with bullet weight retentions or for that matter any bullet recoveries. For what purpose? When we VLD users have for the most part DRT kills or animals that only run a few yards after impact and then drop, then why care about recoveries and weight retentions? What is the point of that?

Anytime you or anyone else, would like to put some serious dollars on the table betting against the VLDs to penetrate thick bone, look me up! I`ll be happy to plop down a few bucks in favor of the VLDs.

Squeeze-seems to me your burning a Berger in a WSM, which one and what does it prefer for propellant?

Thx
Dober

Pretty simple. Have you put one into an elk? Yes? No? I do love people who feel free to comment on something they have never done.