Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting VLDS or NBT love um or hate um

LD - Thanks for checking. What you found matched what I had gathered - just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on some data.

I'm guessing the "fine performance with somewhat lower velocity" is a combination of (1) they require consistent expansion in their expansion tests at the listed velocities and (2) bone is hit often enough in hunting situations that they see examples of expansion at lower velocities than they would in water.

Serious ouch. My uses of 162's this year:

no problem i know i got 1800 some where in something published i do really try not to make this stuff up like some ot well i will leave that alone lol

If you want a real eye opener on Berger's on game performance go over to long range hunting and search for the "bullet tests" by "RoyinIdaho"

He strung up a great big ole pig and did some terminal performance testing. I think there are 3 or 4 threads relating to his tests.

I understand the "if it ain't broke,don't fix it" philosophy. On the other hand if everyone prescribed to that we'd still think the earth is flat. And no I've never had the opportunity to use the Bergers on elk, but based on a truckload of other critters wouldn't hesitate to do so. But again if I was offered a shot and was ,using any one of the other brands mentioned I not hesitate either. Good hits with the vast majority of bullets available results in harvested animals, gut shots and broken legs are the same regardless of bullet. My $.02 worth.

Now that is a nice buck Carl! General area or spcl draw?

Dober

..........As a matter of fact, I use several VLD loadings from my little 300 WSM Ruger Frontier carbine.

69.2 gr RL17 behind a 155 VLD @ 3234 fps
66.8 gr RL17 behind a 168 VLD @ 3039 fps (whatta great hog huntin load this one is; slams `em)
66.5 gr RL17 behind a 175 VLD @ 2983 fps (this one too)
65.5 gr RL17 behind a 190 VLD @ 2865 fps (this loading was used on my last successful elk hunt).
66.0 gr RL22 behind a 210 VLD @ 2732 fps

Tack on roughly 5% or so to the above velocities for the longer 24" barrels.

RL17 delivers the best velocities with good enough accuracys for hunting. H-4350, Varget, IMR 4007 give better accuracys from my lil Ruger using the VLDs but at reduced bullet speeds.

When available from my dealer, I`ll be trying that new Hodgdon Superperformance powder with the VLDs.
That powder just may take the 155 VLD up to 3300 fps, the 168 VLD to 3100, the 175 VLD to 3000, the 190 to 2900, and the 210 to 2800. If achievable, those #s shouldn`t be too bad from a 16.5" barrel uh?

Gotta love the RL17 powder technology from Alliant and this new Superperformance stuff from Hodgdon. The barrel gets longer, without growing an inch.

BS,
That Ruger shoot all of those well? When is the new Superformance powder coming? You load any 7MM Rem Mag with 168 Bergers?

Dave

.............Look at it this way Coyote. I as a VLD user, love the challenge of getting better angles for my killing shots (less than 30 degrees).

I will also point out, that my VLD performances in the field, match the performance claims by Berger for their hunting VLDs.

And, in all my 45+ years of hunting, I`ve never once had the occasion to shoot an animal in the azz hoping for a full length bodily penetration as a last resort.

I`ll keep in mind your "what if" this happens and what "if that" happens scenarios. But, I`m not worried in the least.

.............Yup! 1 1/2" and less (outside edge to outside edge) for all those loadings. And that`s why my lil Ruger compact is nicknmaed "mighty mouse." Great deception and well under-estimated for its compact size.

Superperformance powder will be coming to the shelves at anytime from what I understand.

No, I don`t own or load for a 7 Remy Mag.

Squeeze,
I am pretty excited to try some of that new Superperformance powder. Thanks for the heads up.
Mighty Mouse souns like a dandy.

Dave

No experience with Elk but plenty with Deer and Hogs. The TSX and Partition have been my projectiles of choice for years in my 270. Still luv em. I've been using my 6.5x55 and 7x57 (7mm-08 also) more and more and have been extremely impressed with the results of the 140gr VLD and 120gr BT (6.5x55), 140gr VLD (7mm-08), and 162gr A-Max(7x57). I'm amazed at how quickly and violently these bullets kill game. I've yet to see a deer or hog travel more than a few steps, most DRT. The posts from skeptics about the "theory of why these bullets can't work" reminds me of the humerous Holiday Inn Express commercials, "are you an expert in X or Y, well, no, but I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night".

...............It is a real handy dandy! Ballistically, on par with a 26" barreled 46" OAL 30-06 AI rifle, but in a pkg that`s only 35.5" long. Add an inch for my slip on recoil pad. Quite a little monster.

Good luck with that new super powder from Hodgdon.

The VLD has done very well for me, both close and far. The NBT is a proven killer but the BC advantage of the VLD works better for me at longer range.

Yes I have shot them ( VLDs) into shoulders at close range and liked the results.

Been there and done that and it worked quite well.

Hey!!! That was me testing the Bergers on that hog with RoyinIdaho! Damn that was a big hog!

In my WSM I am using the 168 Hunting version. In my RUM I use the 185 Hunting version. The 168's have performed very well for me close and far.

Cool, How is he doing, I lost track of him. Last I heard he was getting a 375 CT, but have not heard anything else.

bigsqueeze �

Getting closer is fine, but that isn�t always possible. Sometimes you take that shot at the range it is presented or go home empty-handed. I�ve done it both ways, with no regrets, and will continue to do so.

That said, I don�t know anyone that goes out looking to shoot an animal in the hind quarter. That certainly wasn�t my intent when I took a quartering shot at a buck in 2007, but hind quarter it was. Frankly, I wasn�t worried at the time either � partly because it had never happened to me before and partly because I had reason to believe the bullet I was using was up to the task if things went wrong. Things did go wrong and the bullet proved itself up to the task, penetrating from ham to sternum - much further than Berger says a VLD will do.

The big promise of the VLDs is they drop game quicker. The North Forks, MRX and TTSX I�ve been using have been dropping animals before I can recover from the recoil. If the VLDs are faster I�ll never notice the difference � nor will the game.

Keep using those VLDs if you like - I�ll stick with others and everyone goes home happy.

.....................We are all "guaranteed" to pay taxes and "guaranteed" to eventually die. Everything else, including any "what if" scenarios on a hunt can be considered as hypotheticals.

But I do understand where you are coming from.

But in order to find out if there are any differences in dropping game faster between the VLDs and the bullets you are using now, wouldn`t you need to try the VLDs on a few hunts in order to make that assessment?

Just a thought!

Hypotheticals, yes, until they happen. My preference is to prepare for the worst and work for the best. Things still don�t always work out as intended. My hunting buddy dropped his first elk, a 5x5 bull, with a neck shot, DRT. Against my advice he tried that on his second with the same bullet and cartridge and we didn�t find it for 24 hours. Stuff happens...

Could VLDs drop game faster? You tell me. Here is my track record since year 2000 for elk:

7mm Rem Mag, 160g Grand Slam, 6x5 bull elk, straight down, struggled to feet, took 2 steps and down (2000)
7mm Rem Mag, 160g Grand Slam, 5x5 bull elk, straight down (2002)
7mm Rem Mag, 160g Grand Slam, cow elk, 40 yards (2002)
.45-70, 350g North Fork, 6x6 elk, straight down (2003)
.300 Win Mag, 180g North Fork, cow elk, 25 yards (2006)
.30-06, 165g North Fork, cow elk, straight down, back up and straight down again on 2nd shot (2007)
.30-06, 165g North Fork, cow elk, straight down, back up and straight down again on 2nd shot (also 2007)
.30-06, 150g AccuBond, cow elk, straight down (2010)

I did have a bad experience with the 7mm RM, a 160g Barnes XLC and an unfortunate buck antelope in 2001, even with 3 good hits to the chest, which is why I never used them again. (Burned the rest up on targets.) Some people think premiums are too much bullet for light game like antelope, and with the 160g XLC I would agree. Others seem to work quite well. Here is my track record on antelope since I started hunting them off and on in 2001:

7mm Rem Mag, 160g XLC, buck antelope, straight down and back up on 1st and 2nd shots, down for good on 3rd shot (2001)
.375 Win, 225g Hornady SP, buck antelope, death leap and DRT (2003)
.308 Win, 168g TTSX, buck antelope, straight down (2008)
.257 Roberts, 100g TTSX, doe antelope, 25 yards (2009)
.257 Roberts, 100g TTSX, doe antelope, straight down (2010)
6.5-06AI, 130g Scirocco II, doe antelope, straight down (2010)

I might add that I took my son-in-law antelope hunting in 2009 and again in 2010. Also took two nephews on their first antelope hunt in 2010. They accounted for three more antelope, as follows, using my handloads:
.30-06, 168g TTSX, doe antelope, straight down (2009)
.30-06, 150g AccuBond, buck antelope, straight down (2010)
.30-06, 150g AccuBond, doe antelope, straight down (2010)


Take out the 7mm 160g XLC and the track record is pretty good. VLDs might result in animals going straight down as well, but I doubt anyone could tell the difference, even with a stopwatch.