Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing 35 Whelen Imp and 96 Swedish

Sometime ago, I purchased a 35 Whelen Imp on a 96 action made in 1917 with 20 inch barrel. I had the head space checked by a gun smith who said it was good and thought it was a good rifle. I have shot about 20-30 Remington 250's through it with no problems other than having to file the tips of the bullets so five load and function smoothly. The bolt and receiver numbers match. I have read Ackley's two volume book and he thought the 96 was strong after doing destruction tests. I intend to hand load it and I don't load anything to the max.

I recently joined the camp fire and have read the concerns about the 96. I like to hear informed opinion on this set up.

Well okay I'll bite. The 96 ain't as strong as the 98 and it's derivatives. Probably why cartridges like 7mm mauser that were designed around the 96 are held to 46,000 CUP.

It is as strong as any. It was not proofed to as high a pressure. These actions donot prevent gas coming back from a case failure Which was much more important in 1900 than today.
The Springfield 03 and th earlier winchester mod 70's are
built the same way.

There are 3 things that I ALWAYS do when I build on a pre-1898 style small ring Mauser:

1. Install a bolt shroud with a larger gas shield.
2. Install a Bold or Timney trigger with an integral safety.
3. Intall a Dayton-Traister cock-on-opening kit.

I think that the major weakness of the pre-1898 style Mausers isn't their strength, particularly the well made Swedish SR Mausers, but the way that they handle escaping gas. The most significant difference between a pre-1898 and a post-1898 style SR Mauser is the larger gas shield on the bolt shroud, not the 3rd, auxillary, locking lug. The commercial style replacement bolt shrouds that Brownells and MidwayUSA sell have the larger gas shield and that is why I always use them.

JEff

here's a good thread about the 96 and strength issues:

http://www.mausercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36237

Small ring Mausers have the same approximate receiver ring diameter as the 1903 Springfields and they were commonly chambered for the 35 Whelen prior to the introduction of the Winchester 70.

I've rebarreled Swedish Mausers in 22-250, 243, 257 Roberts, 7x57, 308, and 6.5x55. No pressure problems seen to date.

JEff

I read those books.
I missed where he tested the Swede.
I bought a 94, 96, and 34 Swede for destructive testing BECAUSE I thought Ackley did not test it.

Can you quote volume and page number where he tests the 96?

Clarkma,

I bet there are more than a bunch of Swede Mauser Looneys that would like to read about your destruction tests.

You may have to go well above 81K PSI though.

Dr. John Heath, a senior ballistician at Norma Precision, reported in the Dec � Jan, 2010 issue of Handloader the following antidote.

"I set up a pressure barrel and fired a round "Errr, sir, better not fire another." came from the technician. Pressure was a rather enthusiastic 81,000 PSI. The equipment is only rated up to 65,200 PSI! It says a lot for the old 1896 Swedish Mauser action that the pressure barrel was screwed into that it didn't let go and there was only a little stickiness when I opened the bolt.�

The round in question was a .300 WM loaded with a hinky bullet.

Clarkma,

Ackley's hand book does not say he tested a 96. My error for writing that way. I was referring more to his general comments on the strength of actions in general on rifles made by other countries. As you are aware, in his destruction tests of the 30/40 inproved, he felt the cling of the case reduced the back thrust on the bolt. I am thinking the same would apply to the 35 AI. I sure would like for to share your results on your destruction tests of the 96, as would others, if you have done what you have claimed with pressure equipment.

I have overloaded enough Mausers to know what happens.
The bolt body gets fatter behind the lugs and the inside diameter of the lug abutments in the receiver gets smaller. The bolt will no longer fit in that receiver. But other bolts will fit, and the fat bolt will fit in other receivers. Put Die Chem on the bolt to find the tight spot(s). Put fine valve grind compound on the tight spots. Cycle the bolt a few times until there is clearance. Clean out the compound.

If the case head splits in half, the extractor splits in half and comes flying back toward the shooter. If it is one of those new CZ527, expect a piece of the bolt face to blow off as well. With old 98 Mausers, it is just a new extractor and a new extractor collar.

If you calculate the stress caused on the steel by chamber pressure and try to predict the threshold of yield, you will be wrong. That must be for static stress. Guns are always harder to blow up than calculated. I have blown up a lot of guns. My father designed a lot of guns. He is the creator, I am the destroyer.

Assuming that 'behind' is the side of the bolt closest to the bolt handle, can you elaborate as to how the bolt body gets fatter behind the lugs?

If you calculate the stress caused on the steel by chamber pressure and try to predict the threshold of yield, you will be wrong. That must be for static stress. Guns are always harder to blow up than calculated. I have blown up a lot of guns. My father designed a lot of guns. He is the creator, I am the destroyer. [/quote]

Claekm,
Do you have powder charges and bullets used for your tests? From reading the reponses, as long as a starting load up to middle of the road "working load" are used, the 96 would be able handle a 35 AI wihout problems. I would use loads listed in the current manuals for the 35 Whelen.

Never could figure out why people try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear...it seems simple to me...load for the pressure of the RECEIVER not the cartridge potential...doesn't matter what the caliber is...OR why you'd think buying something that is questionable and has lots of information concerning that fact scattered all over the net and think "you're getting a deal".

Caveat Emptor and "a sucker born every minute" comes to mind.

Maybe in 1945 and later, building a custom rifle on a military action was de Rigueur, but in todays world there are so many very inexpensive rifles without "questionable" metallurgy and needing little or no extra machine work to convert to another caliber, I see no need for a M98 conversion even though I did one just for the knowledge of HOW to do it.

Dollar for dollar, it cost more than just buying a factory controlled round feed rifle to do the conversion and I did ALL the work, and used the most economic pieces and parts.

I have two Swedes and find no reason to convert them...I just build another rifle or chamber a switch barrel for a MODERN receiver...I can't shoot more than one rifle at a time so swapping barrels to match the game doesn't seem very much of a problem, and doesn't take more than an hour including resighting.

There are always many ways to skin a bear and it seems to me this "mauser conversion" thing is way out of proportion to reality. You have to think outside the envelope to really enjoy this sort sometimes. But that's just me and everyone has their own needs and requirements...no diss or flame intended, just my opinion.

LUCK