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Originally Posted by Border Doc
Top-break revolvers.

The concept is flawed, the cartridges (that I can think of, like .32 S & W, .32 Long) are anemic*, extraction is iffy, and the timing seems very vulnerable to wear, resulting in misfires and shaving lead when the cylinder doesn't line up with the barrel. *OK, the .38 S & W isn't too bad.

Some are only passable for appearance. Most look like they were designed and made in Russian tractor factories, but before metalurgy had been invented.

History and traditional looks do not make up for Fatal Flaws.


I think SOME top break revolvers are that way, but being top break does not equate a fatally flawed revolver. The S&W no3, Russian & Schofield's were all very good, very effective and fired very capable cartridges. And then there's perhaps the best fighting revolver of them all, the Webley; I see nothing fatally flawed in those and they were all top break.

In fact, I thought the Webley was such a fine revolver, I'd love to see someone revive the concept of the Webley and modernize it.

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KevinGibson,

I stand corrected, and thank you for shining your light on my errata with style and insight.

I have not had the opportunity (or the $$) to experience the Schofield, Webley, S & W #3 or the Russian...my thoughts were on the "pocket pistols" I own or have shot. They have been cute but disappointing. Those are not proper adjectives for the .44 Russian and the .45 Schofield.

Thanks for pointing out the sturdy and serviceable sidearms of approximately the same era. These "purse guns" I refer to are not fit to share the gun safe with the Webley. Not all top breaks are the same.


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How did so many guys survive so many fights with an open frame revolver that could cross fire the cylinders if you didn�t put grease in front of the bullet and relied on little caps tenuously held on individual nipples and completely exposed to the elements for ignition? Said caps could shred on firing and jam up the firearm. They were painfully slow to reload and the propellant could be rendered inert by wet weather.

Wonder if Wild Bill would have been thrilled with a Hi-Power, trigger disconnect and all? whistle


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Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
How did so many guys survive so many fights with an open frame revolver that could cross fire the cylinders if you didn�t put grease in front of the bullet and relied on little caps tenuously held on individual nipples and completely exposed to the elements for ignition? Said caps could shred on firing and jam up the firearm. They were painfully slow to reload and the propellant could be rendered inert by wet weather.

Wonder if Wild Bill would have been thrilled with a Hi-Power, trigger disconnect and all? whistle


I'm guessin' he would've been thrilled to death.....only if he was the only one to have it. Otherwise - it would be just another day.


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I've always wanted one of those #3 reproductions in .44 Russian, but I am disinclined to pay a grand for one of them! Same thing for one of those Spencer reproductions, also available in .44 Russian - cool rifle, but pretty darn expensive.

A top break is actually a very useful revolver, you can reload one much faster than a convetional single action.


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I haven't owned the LCP or P3AT so I don't know if the photo shown below is representative of the chamber support typically encountered.

[Linked Image]


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wow, that Kel-Tec is suprising!
I bet it feeds anything!
Rocks, pens,


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Originally Posted by KevinGibson
Originally Posted by Border Doc
Top-break revolvers.

The concept is flawed, the cartridges (that I can think of, like .32 S & W, .32 Long) are anemic*, extraction is iffy, and the timing seems very vulnerable to wear, resulting in misfires and shaving lead when the cylinder doesn't line up with the barrel. *OK, the .38 S & W isn't too bad.

Some are only passable for appearance. Most look like they were designed and made in Russian tractor factories, but before metalurgy had been invented.

History and traditional looks do not make up for Fatal Flaws.


I think SOME top break revolvers are that way, but being top break does not equate a fatally flawed revolver. The S&W no3, Russian & Schofield's were all very good, very effective and fired very capable cartridges. And then there's perhaps the best fighting revolver of them all, the Webley; I see nothing fatally flawed in those and they were all top break.

In fact, I thought the Webley was such a fine revolver, I'd love to see someone revive the concept of the Webley and modernize it.
Maybe there actually has been some book (like McDonald's conversion book) written about them, but if there is, I'm not aware of it. Figuratively speaking, the story of the Bulldog-type revolver in the old west has yet to be written. Lots of western characters had a cheap "Bulldog-type" topbreak tucked away in their frock coat or even chaps. By "Bulldog-type" I mean stuff like Custer carried at the Little Bighorn-Webley Royal Irish Constabulary. A big bore, short, topbreak. Lots of small bores too. Smith and Wesson's, Iver Johnson's, etc. Back when I dealt in old guns, the Bulldogs were plentiful and cheap. I'm talking under $100 at times. Wish I had an example. A friend of mine had one for sale for about $150 IIRC. It was in great shape and was engraved. I should have, but they didn't sell well.

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Originally Posted by JOG
I haven't owned the LCP or P3AT so I don't know if the photo shown below is representative of the chamber support typically encountered.

[Linked Image]
Good golly Miss Molly, that makes a Glock seem conservative.

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Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
How did so many guys survive so many fights with an open frame revolver that could cross fire the cylinders if you didn�t put grease in front of the bullet and relied on little caps tenuously held on individual nipples and completely exposed to the elements for ignition? Said caps could shred on firing and jam up the firearm. They were painfully slow to reload and the propellant could be rendered inert by wet weather.

Wonder if Wild Bill would have been thrilled with a Hi-Power, trigger disconnect and all? whistle
Well, it�s the same lesson I�m always harping on. Don�t act like the issue doesn�t exist, learn how to mitigate the flaws in your given arm.;

At the time, those open frame revolvers with those flimsy little caps were simply the best there was. So the users bought ball molds that were ever so slightly oversized, so when they seated a ball, it would trim off a smidge of a ring of lead as the ball is seated, effectively sealing up the cylinder with the ball. The tallow was added afterwards more to keep the revolver functioning perfectly than a safety measure; but the extra safety measure did help a lot. As for the flimsy caps, they learned to flip the revolver muzzle way up and give the gun a little flip with the wrist, then cock as you brought it down, and by doing so, you often flung what�s left of the percussion cap free of the gun.

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Originally Posted by ColeYounger
By "Bulldog-type" I mean stuff like Custer carried at the Little Bighorn-Webley Royal Irish Constabulary. A big bore, short, topbreak.
The Webley RIC was a sold frame revolver, not a top break. Custer, Myles Keogh, and others around the world carried Webleys because of their double action capability and robust construction.


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no glocks or keltecs for me -- too ugly


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Originally Posted by Old_Writer
Originally Posted by ColeYounger
By "Bulldog-type" I mean stuff like Custer carried at the Little Bighorn-Webley Royal Irish Constabulary. A big bore, short, topbreak.
The Webley RIC was a sold frame revolver, not a top break. Custer, Myles Keogh, and others around the world carried Webleys because of their double action capability and robust construction.
You are right. Good catch. Sorry for the mixup. I'd like to have one and also a Bulldog. How's that? grin

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Cool. Make mine nickel plated! cool

Last edited by Old_Writer; 02/16/11.

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