Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Which bullets will you never use again - and why?

Sierra and Speer "hot core". Grand slams are very good
though!

I'll never use a Partition, X-boolet, or Failsafe again. There penetrators alright, pencil in and pencil out.

Partitions and Failsafes!!! Pencil in, pencil through, pencil out. No thanks, give me a Hornady, or "certain" Barnes bullets. Flinch

35 cal 200 grn. Barnes. Might as well through them at the target.

Two bullets have disappointed me � a 162g Hornady BTSP and a Barnes 160g XLC both from my 7mm Mag.

The Hornady was used to take my first bull elk and, although I got the bull, I was very unhappy with its performance � 47.7% retained weight.

Two Barnes XLC bullets hit my first antelope in the lungs and penciled through. I spent over 20 minutes circling around for a closer shot and the buck got up and started to walk off before a third XLC took out its heart and ended its misery. I�m working up laods for my .300 Win Mag using the 180g TSX, but am not sure I�ll use it.

On the other hand, 160g Speer Grand Slams have worked great in my 7mm Mag for many years.

When I hear people mention Sierra bullets good, bad or otherwise, they are almost always talking about the GameKing line(boat tail). I usually shoot the Sierra ProHunters(flat base Spitzer. I am I the only one? Are all these under penetration/over expansion horror stories with Sierra bullets just the Game Kings?

Ballistic Tip Overview





Ballistic Tips (BT's) were designed by Nosler for violent expansion / explosion and medium penetration on light skin type animals like deer.

For most calibers shooting fragile BT's, you're better off using heavier projectiles with bigger Sectional Density's (SD's) than you would normally use for a regularly constructed bullet.

Why?

1. Heavier bullets for caliber are better in a BT because they tone down the violent expansion a bit and still have enough weight leftover for a complete pass-through.

2. The shock-value with the heavier BT will still be more than lighter standard bullets and you get more energy on target.

3. Short range shots also suit the larger round with a higher SD versus lighter weight BT'd bullets with less mass.

4. Raking quartering-away shots obviously benefit from a heavier round for adequate penetration.

5. A larger BT'd bullet is also more forgiving if you shoot accidently into the shoulder.


FYI:

Nosler says that beginning with the 30 caliber 180-gr. Ballistic Tips (and larger), the jacket's profile is changed or upgraded to a much stronger contour similar to the AccuBond (shown below). The lead core is also hardened over the 165-gr. and below bullets.





Lighter weight bullets like 165-gr. 30 caliber and lower (shown below) do not have the thicker contour which starts in the middle of the shell and goes down to the base.





In summary, one might suggest that the 180-gr. Ballistic Tip is simply a non-bonded AccuBond.





Caution:

* Standard bullets generally perform better on deer in lighter to mid-weight sizes.

* Ballistic Tipped rounds are the exception to the rule as outlined in the opening post. Reported problems of a BT blowing up too quickly are generally associated with too light of a bullet.

Steve

P.S.

I like a bullet to perform two things in my 30-06:

1. Violent expansion / shock.
2. Plenty of penetration for a pass-through.

Nosler makes 4 great rounds to accomplish any North American task - listed in order of toughness:

1. Ballistic Tip
2. Solid Base
3. AccuBond
4. Partition

* Light skinned / boned deer: 180-gr. Ballistic Tip / Solid Base / AccuBond
* Heavy skinned / boned elk: 180-gr. Partition / AccuBond

I will never use Winchesters 140 grain Fail Safe in .270 again.To me they Failed big time.Hardly opened at all I would assume with a tiny hole in and a tiny hole out.Lots of trackin!!!!I much prefer the Trophy Bonded and the Nosler Partition in that caliber.

It was one of the first batches out years ago and maybe there better now but I won't find out.I'm happy with the other two.

Jayco

I am not overly fond of Nosler BT's. Too violent expansion on big game. I had a semi bad experience with a Hornady 270 gr bullet in a .375 H&H. I hit a calf elk @ about 50 yards with one and it blew up in it's chest and did not exit. One shot and one dead elk but it should of exited. Definitely like the Barnes X bullets. They do not tear up as much meat in the .375 as my .300 did with other bullets.

I won't drag up my old post on Nosler Accubonds, but I will NEVER EVER use them on Deer or Caribou again!! Neither will any of my friends- two of whom also had horribly poor penetration using the Accubonds.

Our experiences were documented here and photos of the bullets were taken. In fact, the photos of the Accubond bullets may still be hosted somewhere either here, on AR or Nosler's own forum site. Thread title was something like: ACCUBONDS FAIL ON DEER...

BTW, we were all using the 180gr. 30 cal. version out of .300WSMs @ about 3000-3050fps.

In fact, after Nosler saw the photos of the recovered Accubonds from our deer hunt, they asked us for the lot numbers on the box to check for quality control. I don't need bullet failure or the worry that I might not have the right lot of bullets.

For now, I use TBBCs exclusively. I will also try Northfork and TSXs soon.

While I agree that using a light weight BT bullet will drastically increase the chance of overexpansion, bullet fragmentation and poor penetration I must repectfully disagree that this is the reason for the problem in the majority of cases. Most of the people I know who have sworn to never use them again (and I know a lot of them) and in the cases of which I have first hand knowledge bullet weight was not a contributing factory to the problem. Bullet design was.

I wont use conventional boat tail bullets, period.

I had a 162 Hornady boatail come apart in the air at the range. The first shot printed a major hole in the target with little holes peppered all around it.

I had a 160 grain Speer hotcor from a 7 mag totally disentegrate inside a mulie broadside. He flopped over, but I didn't like it not punching through.
But the Speer flat bases are OK, I had a 145 hotcor flatbase go through end to end on a whitetail.
But this was back in the early 80's, I use premium bullets for hunting now. SST, Interbonds, TSX etc.

SD: If it was a Speer with a boat tail, it wasn't a "Hot Core". If it was a Speer Hot Core, it wasn't a boat tail...Jim

Southtexas,

I have had great success with the Speer Grandslams. I still haven't recovered one.

I have killed mule deer, antelope and whitetail with them out of a 300 winnie, using the 165 GS.

Tony

hicountry: I agree with you...I've never had a Grand Slam perform any way but "perfect"...

'Texas,

I have never tried any of the Hot-Cores, so can't really pass a judgement on them.

I have noticed that the exit holes from the GS wre just about perfect. Really impressed with them. I still shoot them out of my pre-64 '06 (150 GS). About a perfect combo on WT.

I'll tell you another Speer bullet that I have been impressed with......the Deep Shock. I killed two WT bucks with them out of my 300 Winnie (165 DS). Very impressed. I took out two shoulders on the last one and it appeared to hold up real well (complete pass thru).

They are hard to find anymore. I stocked up on them when I found a source. Mule Deer has made some real favorable comments on them. I tried the 165DS in my '06 and got real good accuracy and velocity (2900). I think I am going to shoot them out of the ole '06 this year.

Tony

Any ballistic tip or ballistic silver tip at magnum velocities. The absolutely disgusting mess created by a close range shot at a whitetail with a 140 grain ballistic silver tip out of a 7mm Rem. Mag. is one too many deer wasted by these "varmint" boolits.

I may try the 120 grain in a 7-08 but I doubt it now that we have the TSX. Your ratio of fuel used per miles traveled most likely WILL vary (YMMV) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Bruce

DeseretSandman and Flinch;
My penciling experiences with the Nosler partitions, FailSafe and Barnes X are somewhat different than yours - I pencil in hunts that I want to use those slugs on, and the grim reaper pencils out the animals shot! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If you like swiss cheese use barnes x's. Your game will have many holes completely through it by time your done.

Yep, you're right, I've taken elk, deer, and moose with either Barnes or FailSafe, and every animal had holes in them, but none of them from multiple shots. All one shot kills from about 120 to 300 yards and with both 30 and 338 caliber. Sorry, my experience is that the bullets are great killers despite what conventional wisdom says about them not opening up. I will be using them again this year in both Montana and Idaho for elk, deer, and bear.
brassbender