Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Rounding Out My Battery

RinB,

Aww, now you went and kicked my dog... grin.

I can tell you for certain that a .338 WM running the 225 Accubond does not behave as you describe. It is excellent out to 600 yards or so, and has a way better trajectory than a .308.

In fact... I'm gonna just pull a WAG here but I betcha it's got better wind drift numbers than a .270, and drift is what kills ya in no-sighter, first-shot-hit conditions (like hunting).

Anyway, there's a perception that the .338 is a lobber, and that's just not so.

I'll check my WAG here and report back.

All in the spirit of debate here sir.

You tell em JeffO. Just for chits and giggles you should show them nay sayers how the 338 fairs with a 250 sierra BTSP gameking traveling @ 2700 and compare it to any 308 win. Oh what the hell, lets see the highly regarded 155 scenar compared to it This will be interesting.

Well, for starters, here's wind drift for a 130-gn Accubond vs. the 225 from a .338. I do realize this is contrary to "common knowledge" but.... here it is.

I've shot a CRAPLOAD of those 225's at extended ranges (out to 650 yards) and they really kick it. A .550 BC will do that.

Wouldn't want a 223 any other way.

I think it's sorta "funny", that folks are lecturing RinB on what works and what doesn't......Rick is an old friend with more "hands on" rifle experience going back farther than some on here have been alive......not only with three of the four required for a Grand Slam,but extensive NA experience including a bunch of other NA game....

He has killed more game with just a 270 Winchester(well in excess of 200 head from African eland on down;might be a lion in there,too if I recall) than some of the critiques have seen in their whole lives while toting a 338 and everything else they own....we won't mention his experiences with the 280 Remington, 280 AI(before anyone really knew what it was) and the 7Rem Mag.....that might just double up the score board,leading to embarassing numbers...

So, those sending posts,and plotting graphs demonstrating alleged cartridge superiority in the face of Rick's hands-on experience,as to "what works" on real animals, and lecturing him on it, is laughable..... .....no, make that hilarious

You can save the advise on what it takes for clean one shot kills,boys....he doesn't need it....and he routinely sends bullets of various makes to his professional friends in Africa.....they report back after killing oodles of game with all of them.I see the emails.Some slugs highly touted here....well,lets just say they tell him...."Don't send any more of those....".But then African folks tend not to read too much bullistic gack...they just kill animals by the score...what do they know?

But then,just keep going because after all, this is the internet...and everyone is entitled to their delusions even though they have not BTDT and might have 5% of Ricks game count;with "inferior cartridges" according to some on here.....I am just enjoying the show...too funny.

Good way to ruin a rifle, but hey it can be rebarreled.

why not ai a 223 ?
if it didn't cost so much to do my ar, i'd be all over it.
i'm tired of trimming the lil cases every other firing.

imo, 223's stretch worse than any cartridge i have.

maybe, it's an ar thing, but anything to keep the loading work down, would be nice.

plus a wee bit more performance gain would be nice too.

Care to expand on that thought? My 7oo 223AI is a faux TI. Don't see how it was ruined.

.

JeffO

Your graph is interesting but does not really compare apples to apples so to speak. A 168gr 308 cal to the 225gr 338 would be a closer comparrison. Time of flight alone would account for the wind drift differences.

The 225 at an easily achievable 2750 ft/sec or the 200gr at 2950 should better be compared to the 308 165gr /225gr or 140gr/200gr.

I am sure you would see a different graph. I own both, hunt both, and have shot compitition with both. Time of flight has as much or more influence on wind drift as BC.

That is why the 270 is as good a hunting round as it is because a long skinny fast bullet will always be less effected than a short fat less speedy bullet.

I keep convincing myself just how good the 270 is, but have neveer owned one. I may have to rectify that.

Randy

The AIs offer nothing except novelty and nobody will buy the rifle once it's been rechambered to a cartridge they've never heard of.

Trust me......

I reckon you gotta tell you something and it couldn't get more funny than that.......................

Maybe I look at things differently because I (like one other poster said) consider rifles to be like golf clubs. I own enough that almost every rifle is owned for a "specific" job. Some are more "versitile" than others and can be used in different ways, but, in general, I choose what I believe to be the "right tool" for the job.

However, I also remember the days when I was younger (and more "broke") and had to make choices that, while maybe not "perfect", could cover more than one use.

I will say from the start that, in my opinion, you have made a very good start with your choice of the .223 and .270.

The .223 is near perfect for general use on most varmits. It is generally very accurate and shoots flat enough for almost all longer range situations. If you do a lot of really long range varmit work (prairie dogs come to mind as well as larger varmits like coyotes), you "might" be better served witha .22-250, Swift or maybe a .243......but there is very little that the .223 can't do here if you learn trajectory and pick your shots. Likewise, if you want to "push" things a little and use the "varmit" rifle for smaller big game (deer) as well as smaller stuff.....a hotter .22 or better yet a good .243 or .257 "might" be a little better, but the .223 can, once again, be used quite well with proper bullets.....and really careful shot placement.

For the second choice (a basic "deer" rifle) you can hardly go wrong with the .270. In reality, any fairly flat shooting rifle from a bigger .25 caliber up through the non-magnum .30 calibers would serve as well. With a .25-06, .257 Wby, 6.5x55, .270, 7x57, .280., 7mm Mag., .308 or .30-06 to be used on deer-size game......you'd be hard pressed to make a case for ANY of them being head-and-shoulders better than anything else on the list.

Sure there a some "small" limitations with the smaller cases (.25's, 6.5 and to a lesser extent, the .270) when "pushed" by using them on larger game......they are hardly useless against elk size animals. The 7mm Mag. and .30-06 might be a bit more "forviving" when used on larger big game, but even then the "average" shot at such game really doesn't "require" heavier bullets and more punch that the .270 can deliver. Right in the middle of the "deer class" rounds, the .270 should shine.

As to a choice for the top end of your battery.....some thought should be made as to how it will be used. I'd agree with the idea that the 7mm Mag. (while great) is just a bit too close to the .270 in performance.

For rare use on larger elk size game the 7mm Mag. will perform admirably, but hardly "earth shakingly" better than a .270 with good bullets and proper shot placement.

The .300 Mag. would be a "better" choice for larger stuff because of the typically heavier bullets with similar trajectory to the 7mm Mag.....if you anticipate hunting this size game on a more regular basis.

The "compromise" big game rifles (7mm Mag and .300 Mag.), I fear, will become semi-safe queens as the .270 will likely be chosen for most hunts.....and the "big" rifles only pulled out for occational elk hunts. I like to "use" my rifles.....not just own them.

If you are one of the lucky few who will actually hunt elk size game on a regular basis.....I'd lean more toward the .338 Mag. It is the "classic" elk caliber and will be much more versitile in various situations (on larger game) that the smaller magnums. However, this is ONLY if you will be hunting this size game on a frequent basis. Otherwise, the .338 will likely get even less use than the 7mm or .300 Magnums.

For me, the choice would be either the .300 Mag. or .338 Mag........totally dependant on how often you feel the "need" for a bigger rifle. In my case it was the .338 that filled the "bigger" rifle slot. It VERY narrowly beat out a .375 H&H because it shoots flatter and I don't anticipate a lot of hunting for big bears (the ONLY legitimate reason for choosing the .375 over a .338.....and even then it's a "slim" reason).

One suggestion was for a medium range (up to 300 yards), big bore thumper. I think this is a great suggestion....once again, unless you will be "regularly" hunting elk size game.

For slightly bigger game (thinking 300 pound hogs) and even deer size game in the thickets...there WILL be times when a heavy bullet, big bore rifle would be prefered to the .270......not for "killing power" but for the better penetration and blood trail that will result. A fast handling rifle of slightly bigger bore will be used a lot more (in general) than a typical "magnum" rifle. Thinking of something like a Mannilcher carbine in .308 or .358 Win.....or better yet a Savage 99 in either caliber would be "perfect". A bolt gun in .35 Whelen would aslo be very nice.

If you "know" ranges will be really short (under 200 yards) a good lever in .45-70, .375 Win. or .35 Remington has a lot to offer. Don't overlook the pump guns either (.35 Rem. or .35 Whelen) and a Ruger 44 carbine would be very hard to pass up (as would a lever action .44 Magnum).

While there is no "best" choice for your third rifle.....think had about how you will use it (and how often it will be "really" used). While I use the "golf club" method of rifle choice.....if I HAD to choose just one, it would likely be a short-to-medium range big bore ove one of the longer range magnums because it would get a LOT more use over time due to my hunting methods and opportunities.

Nice write-up there texasrick .

Pretty much anything works if the hunter shoots well.

I have a very close buddy who owns a hunting operation in South Africa. The first timers think they need cannons to bump off plains game. He has the worst results with the 338 shooters since very very few bring a 375 for a plains game hunt. The 338 users usually can't shoot well at the outset and those who do usually have their shooting deteriorate by the end of the trip. Unlike North American hunting, where one or two shots are fired per trip, in Africa one shoot multiple times each day and one usually does not wear a heavy coat.

His brother did culling in Zambia and used a Sako 308. They don't see the need for anything bigger than a 30 and prefer the non-magnums.

An old college chum of mine got to hunt Africa frequently with his father, who headed up an international engineering firm head quartered in Boston that did business internationally....by the time he was 25-26, my pal had shot most of the big stuff of consequence,and the usual array of plains game..

After a couple of trips using his 300 Win Mag over there, he asked of he could bring my 270....I asked "why", and he said in Africa you are always shooting at something,daily....bait animals, baboons, trophies, knocking cocnuts out of trees. whatever.....it isn't long before the continued pounding of a 300 magnum gets under your skin, he said, and you shooting just falls off.

I sent him over with my Ruger M77 270 and a large quantity of handloads of 58 H4831 and 150 Nosler Partitions....he used it on many animals and came back happy as a clam.

I lay awake nights wondering how he pulled this off because... "the 270 Win is too big for the small stuff, and too small for the big stuff....",which I knew even back then, and was therefore very confused.

[quote=RinB]Pretty much anything works if the hunter shoots well.

+1...

I have never been to Africa but have been all over NA using a 270, 30-06 ,375, 264, 257 Wby ,300 Wby, 338 and 340 Wby....so my comments will be directed to NA where I have field experiences...if I had to chose a big game NA battery it would be 270 using 130 and 150 NP, 30-06 using 165 and 200 NP/BBC and 375 using 250/275 BBC.....just my opinion on what has worked for me after 50 years of hunting NA...

I [bleep] the 338 at every opportunity,due to how poorly Brad Average wields one on Game.

Boolits matter far more than headstamps.................

You're one ignorant fool and the cause on hundreds of folks leaving this forum. I know you don't care and that says plenty about you little man.

Imagination and Reality often collide.

Cyber hanky to you.................

Lives2hunt...how about a Winchester or Browning in 325wsm....I thought Jeff O would have recommended it by now. Good compromise between a 300 and 338....so I guess I will cast a vote for it now. Stew