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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Well as compelling as the ZERO EXPERIENCE is, I have experience with both and find bigger ain't always 'better'..
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667 |
Well as compelling as the ZERO EXPERIENCE is, I have experience with both and find bigger ain't always 'better'.. That's not what the ladies say! LOL! Or you can say it ain't what you've got, it's how you use it.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I only have to make myself happy....
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 628
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 628 |
Well as compelling as the ZERO EXPERIENCE is, I have experience with both and find bigger ain't always 'better'.. Speaks volumes...Im eager to try the .223 this season..let the .308 rest a bit.
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It must feel so good to be right all the time..... Click "Ignore"..get rid of the whore..
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
Don't confuse me with facts when I've already made up my mind! I know a guy who killed a nuisance bear with a .204 Ruger but that doesn't make it the rifle of choice. PS It didn't drop in its tracks either whelennut
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
There is a lady who hunts with my inlaws who can't kill a deer with a 30-30. Maybe she would have better luck with a .223? I'm betting she is flinching but it's only a guess.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 628
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 628 |
Id not go after a bear with a .204...point well taken.But plenty of 180 Partitions 'round here for the 30-06..
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It must feel so good to be right all the time..... Click "Ignore"..get rid of the whore..
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Folks do realize a bear ain't a deer, right? Course I'd have no issues sticking a black bear with a 223AI either.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
I won't argue that a .223 isn't an effective deer killer, used within it's limitations. I just don't accept those limitations.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Tough to argue what you have no experience with. Well tough for someone that ISN'T an idiot.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
Id not go after a bear with a .204...point well taken.But plenty of 180 Partitions 'round here for the 30-06.. If I could get Ty to build a 35 TSX or something like I'd have no issues taking on blacky la teur with it..grin Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,102
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,102 |
You don't need a 6" lift kit to drive thru a poodle of water.
Ive killed more deer with a .243 than I can ever remember. I'm sure a .223 will perform well also.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667 |
Well as compelling as the ZERO EXPERIENCE is, I have experience with both and find bigger ain't always 'better'.. Speaks volumes...Im eager to try the .223 this season..let the .308 rest a bit. Read the original post. The gentleman asks "Why do you THINK a 223 works better than larger bores on deer?" I never professed to be an expert on the subject, but since this is an open forum and I am a resgistered user I stated what I think. The OP can take it for what it's worth or not worth. He posed the question and I gave my opinion. Anyone is free to disagree and flame me for an OPINION and guess what, it doesn't make me wrong. Until I see physiological evidence based on scientific findings I'll keep my opinion. Just because a few outspoken guys on this forum have thousands of posts does not qualify them as researchers with scientific findings. If someone is gun shy and can't handle recoil and can hit well with a light caliber it beats the heck out of poor shooting, but there is no evidence, except by a few guys on the campfire that use them that they are "better" killers than a 243, 257, 7mm, 30-06, 30-30, etc. etc.. Only years of testing with scientific studies can prove or disprove it. Sorry guys, dead is dead. I think that if the 223 was such a great deer cartridge, nobody would hit the woods without one. It is in fact, that is not the case. The popularity of the cartridge is due to the military adoption of the round and it's subsequent use by military veterans, varmit hunters, and target shooters. With good bullets it has become an adequate, but I doubt better or even as good of a deer killer. Again, my opinion. No scientific evidence, just like no scientific evidence proving that it is better. The exact location of the hit IMHO dictates how quickly that death comes. As a matter of fact, one of the more outspoken and respected members on this forum said that it was the bullet, not the headstamp that matters most. Which "expert" do you want to believe? Don't forget, the definition of an "expert" is anyone 25 miles from home. All of the experts here are a long way from home here in cyberspace. LOL! Try this stuff for yourself and make up your own mind, if what you are using isn't getting it done for you. If you can't kill them with a 270, and you can shoot it well, that 223 isn't going to help you.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,755
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,755 |
Yes, I believe the 223AI works mo better than the slower/big bore rounds on deer.
How about .223's that aren't AI'd? How is the performance on deer?
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,052 Likes: 29
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,052 Likes: 29 |
Tender vittles broadside at 100 yards in a hayfield.(close to the house)
Big toad mulie angling away right before dark at 450 yards.(slight breeze....grin)
So many variables.
I honestly think a 270 Win-300 mag hurts a deer way more if the shot isn't a good one but at the same time the 223, 22-250 and 220 Swift have killed a tremendous amount of deer in the hands of good riflemen/hunters.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
.270... gaaaack. What the hell have you killed with a .270??
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Well as compelling as the ZERO EXPERIENCE is, I have experience with both and find bigger ain't always 'better'.. Speaks volumes...Im eager to try the .223 this season..let the .308 rest a bit. Read the original post. The gentleman asks "Why do you THINK a 223 works better than larger bores on deer?" I never professed to be an expert on the subject, but since this is an open forum and I am a resgistered user I stated what I think. The OP can take it for what it's worth or not worth. He posed the question and I gave my opinion. Anyone is free to disagree and flame me for an OPINION and guess what, it doesn't make me wrong. Until I see physiological evidence based on scientific findings I'll keep my opinion. Just because a few outspoken guys on this forum have thousands of posts does not qualify them as researchers with scientific findings. If someone is gun shy and can't handle recoil and can hit well with a light caliber it beats the heck out of poor shooting, but there is no evidence, except by a few guys on the campfire that use them that they are "better" killers than a 243, 257, 7mm, 30-06, 30-30, etc. etc.. Only years of testing with scientific studies can prove or disprove it. Sorry guys, dead is dead. I think that if the 223 was such a great deer cartridge, nobody would hit the woods without one. It is in fact, that is not the case. The popularity of the cartridge is due to the military adoption of the round and it's subsequent use by military veterans, varmit hunters, and target shooters. With good bullets it has become an adequate, but I doubt better or even as good of a deer killer. Again, my opinion. No scientific evidence, just like no scientific evidence proving that it is better. The exact location of the hit IMHO dictates how quickly that death comes. As a matter of fact, one of the more outspoken and respected members on this forum said that it was the bullet, not the headstamp that matters most. Which "expert" do you want to believe? Don't forget, the definition of an "expert" is anyone 25 miles from home. All of the experts here are a long way from home here in cyberspace. LOL! Try this stuff for yourself and make up your own mind, if what you are using isn't getting it done for you. If you can't kill them with a 270, and you can shoot it well, that 223 isn't going to help you. Looking forward to more opinions from you on what you have no experience. Guessing you ask the check out girl about a medical condition, cuzz what do doctors know.....laffin
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667 |
Well as compelling as the ZERO EXPERIENCE is, I have experience with both and find bigger ain't always 'better'.. Speaks volumes...Im eager to try the .223 this season..let the .308 rest a bit. Read the original post. The gentleman asks "Why do you THINK a 223 works better than larger bores on deer?" I never professed to be an expert on the subject, but since this is an open forum and I am a resgistered user I stated what I think. The OP can take it for what it's worth or not worth. He posed the question and I gave my opinion. Anyone is free to disagree and flame me for an OPINION and guess what, it doesn't make me wrong. Until I see physiological evidence based on scientific findings I'll keep my opinion. Just because a few outspoken guys on this forum have thousands of posts does not qualify them as researchers with scientific findings. If someone is gun shy and can't handle recoil and can hit well with a light caliber it beats the heck out of poor shooting, but there is no evidence, except by a few guys on the campfire that use them that they are "better" killers than a 243, 257, 7mm, 30-06, 30-30, etc. etc.. Only years of testing with scientific studies can prove or disprove it. Sorry guys, dead is dead. I think that if the 223 was such a great deer cartridge, nobody would hit the woods without one. It is in fact, that is not the case. The popularity of the cartridge is due to the military adoption of the round and it's subsequent use by military veterans, varmit hunters, and target shooters. With good bullets it has become an adequate, but I doubt better or even as good of a deer killer. Again, my opinion. No scientific evidence, just like no scientific evidence proving that it is better. The exact location of the hit IMHO dictates how quickly that death comes. As a matter of fact, one of the more outspoken and respected members on this forum said that it was the bullet, not the headstamp that matters most. Which "expert" do you want to believe? Don't forget, the definition of an "expert" is anyone 25 miles from home. All of the experts here are a long way from home here in cyberspace. LOL! Try this stuff for yourself and make up your own mind, if what you are using isn't getting it done for you. If you can't kill them with a 270, and you can shoot it well, that 223 isn't going to help you. Looking forward to more opinions from you on what you have no experience. Guessing you ask the check out girl about a medical condition, cuzz what do doctors know.....laffin No, a doctor has credentials. Show me the scientific evidence to support your view. Show me where a deer is "deader" with a 223. Show me your research. The only thing that you can say is you have an opinion based on very limited experience and zero scientific research data to back it up and your favorite caliber is in a vast minority of deer cartridges. So the world should believe you? You have large post numbers, most of them are one liners that you think are witty. Some think you are and I expect them to show up because you seem to be in trouble backing your opinion with any substance so name calling and ridicule to follow. The name calling and smart ass remarks may make you feel better about yourself, I hope, because you apparently are in dire need of it. I am looking forward to more of your juvenile behavior, speaks volumes about you. Did I read correctly that you were an officer in the Coast Guard? I sure hope that it's not true.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 304
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 304 |
FWIW In the last 60+ years, I've killed more than 200 ungulates, in several states, countries and two continents. With at least 15 different cartridges and who knows how many different bullets. A whole bunch of whitetails were killed with 22cal centerfires...222, 222 rem mag, 22-250 and 22-250AI...most with a 22-250. My late father and son have killed more than a few with 22cal centerfires [along with several other cartdriges] We've used several different bullets, sierra GKs, Hornady, Barnes..but the vast majority were [horrors] Sierra 53gr matchkings. I have a theory [not a drop of true scientific evidence, but certainly a good number of post mortems] If you have ever played contact sports, you likely have had the breath knocked out of you...I mean when you lay on the ground and think I'm dying. You can't breath, can't get a breath. A post mortem on a deer shot in the chest with a 22centerfire reveals almost complete destruction of vital organs..i.e., lungs turned to "soup" heart heavily damaged..it is my theory that the breath is knocked out of the deer and unlike us, the ability to regain breath is gone..While this effect can and does happen with larger calibers, my postmortems suggest that more often the lungs or heart has a hole through it...certainly will cause death, but not always as quickly. The "hole" will and can cause death in several ways, not the least of which is simple drowning in blood. A big exit hole certainly can result in death from simple loss of blood. I'm certainly not suggestion that 22 centerfires are the be all end all, but if you shoot the animal through the chest cavity, the animal is dead and usually right there. They don't do well if you choose to shoot'em in the butt or gut shoot'em..however, my experience with those shots in not too good regardless of cartdrige/caliber. Do I use 22 cal centerfires in the rockies for big mule deer or elk, nope. Do I use em in africa for plains game? nope. But for deer where I can expect good shot angles, reasonable distances, yep, I opine they work very well.
Lions is bad. Lions is feerse. Lions ete folks. Edison Marshall "The Heart of the Hunter"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,298 Likes: 26
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,298 Likes: 26 |
The only thing that you can say is you have an opinion based on very limited experience FYI, you [bleep] up right there.
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