Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Shoulders

A lot of it has to do with the size of the critter, bullet design, velocity and shot angle I am offered (and if I want the cape ;o) ). If I am shooting Nosler Ballistic Tips, I punch the arm pit when trying to save the cape. I know with the BT's I am going to get a major exit hole. ;o)

If I don't care about the cape and I am shooting a harder bullet, I smack them dead center 1/3 of the way up the body in line with the front leg. Both type of shots pretty much guarantee bang flops.

Fast shooting cartridges and hitting an animal anywhere in the front shoulder/lungs creates massive hydrostatic shock. I can't remember an animal ever taking a step after being shot anywhere in that area with a 140 grain Nosler ballistic tip at 3,200-3,300 fps.

I'm a ballistic tip fan, but even when I shoot deer and elk with the the .30-06 and 165 ballistic tips at 2,800 fps, critters just drop at the shot when hit center shoulder.

I see the guys on TV arm pit shooting deer while waiting for the "perfect" broad site shot. Their deer ALWAYS run off. They are shown recovering them in the dark hours later or the next day. What the heck is up with that? I have killed hundreds of deer and just don't have to track them. The only time I do is when I muff the shot, which is really rare.

I would rather obliterate the shoulder bones, lose meat and have them drop, rather than lung punch them and chase them. Flinch

Yotes gotta eat to right...

Dober

I lost a big AL pig over the weekend to a shoulder shot. Standing on a slight angle at 140 yds when a 130 Partition from a 270 WSM hit him. I heard the thwack and when I recovered from the shot he was laying on his side not moving. As I was congratulating myself on such a fine job and reaching down to pick up the empty I looked up only to see him dashing off. He was never seen again. No blood. Only three deep prints in the dirt where he jumped back up - the missing print was from the hit shoulder. I was very confident in that shot with that bullet at that speed. He absorbed one heck of a lot of energy. Any thoughts?

Tough little piggie!
He went wee wee wee all the way home!

I can't wait for them to get to pest control numbers in Ohio!

If I hit the shoulder it is by accident. I used to do a lot of culling in Minneapolis with the Metro Bowhunters Resource Base.
The double lung shot is the only shot they wanted us to take/use.
If it works with a string gun then it should work even better with a chunk of high speed lead IMO.
Whenever I have hit the shoulder it seems to turn the meat to strawberry jello which looks to nasty to eat.
whelennut

Me too.

Back in the olden days (before we had cell phones and X-cab pickups) times were rough....
There were not as many elk 40-50 years ago as today. When my dad and his three long time hunting partners killed elk, they shared the spoils--regardless if they killed 1 elk or they went 4 for 4.

Anybody who wasted meat with a shoulder shot would generally receive a bit of ribbing back at camp.

Consequently, before I was ever old enough to start carrying a rifle on my own, I had it drilled into my head to shoot behind the shoulder, in the "armpit".

Besides, I've seen elk travel a surprisingly long ways with one, and occasionally both, shoulders broken. A bullet that traverses the boiler room seems to stop them just as surely as a shoulder shot that breaks a leg.....at least in my experience.

It seems to me that the term "shoulder" is not generally used as a precise definition. If one means above the upper joint (ie: Scapula/shoulder blade), a shot there on big ungulates doesn't drop the animal in many cases. It may stop him, or it may not, but, IME, they can walk even with a splintered scapula.

OTOH, breaking the upper joint, still a "shoulder" shot in my book, effectively removes the leg from the equation. So does anywhere lower. And breaking both of those joints collapses the gear. Basically we're talking taking out front legs though.

I have yet to see an animal making it to the ER to get help for a gaping chest wound. They always work. Well.

Very nice

I'll add that the two most experienced bear guides I know (Jim Shockey on black bears, and Phil Shoemaker on brown bears) BOTH recommend heart/lung shots over trying to "break them down." There are two reasons: They've had too many hunters get so focused on one or both shoulders that the vitals were only fringed, if not missed entirely; and they've found solid lung shots put bears down quickly, regardless of the size of the bear.

This has also been my bear experience, though it's far more limited than those of Jim or Phil. In fact both my biggest black bear and my lone grizzly (bigger than the black bear) were killed with heart/lung "armpit" shots. The black bear went about 15 yards before dropping, the grizzly about 50. No bone was hit on either shot, though each bullet did go through the meat of the far shoulder, just behind the bone.

You missed the shoulder. I would wager you hit the top of the spine, or shot just under it. Either way, it knocks them out for a second, then they jump up and run off. Same with deer, elk, etc. I have seen it many times.

I wish guys would chamber another round and stay on the animal, rather than start celebrating. I have seen WAY too many animals jump up and run off after the shot. Had the hunter stayed on them, they would have been recovered, but no, they were too busy patting themselves on the back to notice the animal running off. Several were not recovered. Flinch

Whenever an animal collapses straight down, I am extremely suspicious, and immediately get another round in the chamber (which happens pretty automatically anyway) and the scope back on the animal.

Even if they go down after a little run, I do the same thing--and I'm especially suspicious if they do something out of the ordinary. I once was guiding a Midwestern hunter after mule deer, who thought the 7mm Remington Magnum was pure death, especially compared to the .30-06 he used to shoot. He whacked a good buck at a little over 400 yards, and the buck started spinning in a small circle.

I said, "Put another one in the chamber and get on him again."

"Naw," he said, ejecting the empty. "When they spin like that they always go down." At just about that point the buck quit spinning and started running, disappearing into a deep draw full of thick junipers. We never found him.

I used to be nuttin but a bone breaker.But the last few moose and deer ect have been behind the shoulder.Only difference I've seen is a lot less meat damage.

A STW or Win mag hitting square on the bone is a nasty mess.Or any round for that matter.Bears are always square on the bone.

I guess my experience has been a little different than MD's and Flinch's.

I've never shot a bear before, but the whitetails I've shot that got up from a double high shoulder impact have been just 2.

On the 2 that I can recall, it was my fault.

Usually, I later found out that I did not hit them high as I wanted, (Missed Clipping underneath the spine).

But I do agree that a single shoulder plowed buck on 3 legs can cover some ground before giving up the ghost.

A double shouldered one that has no spine impact goes into dozer mode, but usually dies pretty quick IME.

When I am able to hit the shoulders and clip the bottom of the spine, they have never gotten up.

I try to run my bullet higher into the shoulder than most folks, but it's worked pretty good.

Like I said before, there is no one shot for every circumstance, but there are usually multiple effective shots for the same circumstances.

JM

Most of the deer I've shot through the shoulders have been DRR, but not all. The most dramatic example was a mature buck I shot in Missouri. He had been doggin does like a wild man and was really charged up. I got him with a a 165 Gameking from an '06 at 230 yards. The bullet landed on the meaty part of the on shoulder. The bullet lodged in the hide on the off shoulder after hitting bone on that side. The top of his heart and his lungs were completely gone and that rascal still made it nearly 100 yards before giving up the ghost. I attribute his toughness to the rut-induced adrenaline. To me, this exemplifies the fact that rutted up bucks die harder than normal.

Im a meat hunter. I shoot them behind the shoulder. Hitting big bone turns a hole the size of your fist into one the size of a hubcap. Dosen't seem necessary.

I accept, and try to make good of whatever situation is given to me...

I very much agree with BobinNH..

If I feel a presented shot is safe, and responsible I'm more then willing to drop the hammer on shoulder, lung, quartering too, or away...I don't get a lot of chances in VT, or NY so when the time does arise I really work hard to make it happen.

B8

This diagram illustrates the lethality of "behind the shoulder" shot placement. I've toppled dozens of deer and many elk with this shot placement.

TR

Every deer I've hit in the shoulder(s) has gone straight down. I have had one move with the running gear knocked out, it was a doe that pushed herself about 10 yards with her back legs before she stopped and I shot her in the neck.

Most that are hit in the shoulders still do kick for a couple seconds even though they can't get up.

edited to add: I hit a bit 8, high on the near shoulder, missing the other and he ran about 100 yds or so before dropping. Bullet didn't exit, and never did find it.

i tend to run by a set of priorities when shooting for deer, and usually i don't have a lot of time to make decisions...

if i decide to shoot, my ideal target is a pure heart lung, broadside shot...
if that presentation is denied me, i tend to still aim for the heart-lungs, but often involve a shoulder one side or the other...

i don't remember ever shooting intentionally for both shoulders on a broadside critter of any sort, and can't think of a reason why i would do so...

and, FWIW, super bullets are not required for any of the shots that i normally take on deer, or deer sized critters...
the .243 and 85 bthp gameking is good for any of these shots...
i have come to rely on the partition bullet for any hunt that i spend travel money on, but that is a product of having a bunch of them left over after a bear hunt, and using them all over the place on coyotes, deer, and antelopes...
a guy with a 30-06 and 200 gr partitions really is good to go for anything...

as to what will let a critter go further, or wiggle more... there's just too many variables, and i refuse to consider it as a valid question...
i do what i do... the critters all end up on a plate if i do it halfways right...

Agreed on Drop Right the [bleep] Now shots. When they do that I'm always ready to throw another one in them. I feel much better if they take 2 steps and drop.