Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Fire lapping kits... Tubbs or Neco???

I have 3 30 caliber rifles that are all factory stock rifles, 2 kimbers and 1 browning abolt. All shoot well but I'd like to get more shots out of them before dropping off accuracy and having to clean. I also like the idea of possibly even getting more accuracy out of these rifles and making them easier to clean as well. So I have 2 questions.

1. which fire lapping kit would you recommend for doing all 3 rifles??

2. Does the neco kit recommend firing jacketed or lead bullets to fire lap??

I'm trying to move the lands back as little as possible while smothing out the bore. Thanks for any feedback from those with experience.

Neither. These are all fine rifles made for hunting. If they shoot 1.5 MOA or better leave them alone. Rifles should not be cleaned (unless they get wet or salty) until accuracy falls off. With modern rifles and ammo that is +-100 shots.

Cleaning is easy. A squirt of wipe-out, wait 20 minutes and push through a couple of patches using a bore guide. Repeat if necessary.

I have used the NECO kit on pitted, rusty rifles. Works fine if your expectation is improvement not perfection. Using lead bullets will move the throat forward, jacketed ones do not. One caution, if it's really bad, you may have to increase bullet size like a really nasty IDF 308 Mauser I had that had to be moved up to .311 bullets. (308s keyholed). After treatment it would hold 3" with irons @100 with .311 180 Sierras which is all one would expect from a old 98 that had been to war(s). BTW, before NECOing, the bore was plugged and filled with Kroil for a two week soak. It was really nasty.

As long as the rifles shoot well now do not lap them instead treat them with Ultra Bore Coat and your cleaning issues are over. Bear

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/cata...;osCsid=6cdaf1e17b54bd86ec4e901614b3e89a

I have had good luck with the Tubbs. Never tried the other. With three rifles they all shot a bit better afterwards and certainly cleaned up easier. I then apply Ultra Bore Coat after the Tubbs.

after a lot of reading and research, this is the concensus that I have found. Thanks for the input. I'm hoping more people who have actually tried these systems will chime in.

No matter how you cut it you are sanding down the bore. Mouse Milk is Mouse Milk, putting sand in it does not improve it.

From Gale McMillan (yeah the same one)

"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in."

Absolutely true. I tried the Tubbs fire-lapping kit in one problem rifle 5 years ago or so, and it really didn't help at all. Then I gave it the UBC treatment and the copper-fouling problem disappeared.

John Barsness wrote a decent article on the fallacy of barrel break-in in the latest issue of GUNS magazine. Well worth reading.

No one I've known has inproved a barrel with one of these kits. In fact they shot worse after lapping than before. But say it's your money.

Maybe I'm missreading the hundreds of posts I've read on line but they almost all say to a 't' is along the lines of "in most rifles, it significantly shrunk groups and made the bore more uniform (removing the tight spots) and polished the barrels, so it dramatically reduced fouling and cleaning time as well as improving accuracy (sometimes dramatically)." It seems very few of the nay sayers, have ever tried the fire lapping process. I can see how doing it without following directions could lead to excessive bore ware and excessive lengthening of freebore, but of all the posts I've read, very very few have had anything negative to say. If and when I decide to go with one of these systems, I'm sure I will use only minimal if any of the larger grit options and use primarily only those grits used for polishing. Still looking for some voices of authority based on personal experience so keep the comments coming.

Same experience, I Tubbed a Ruger 30-06.... better accuracy and easier cleaning immediately. IMO, nothing to be afraid of. I also like UBC but have not gotten the outstanding results in every rifle others have.

When I fielapped my Freedom Arms .454 I loaded up thirty rounds as carefully as I could. I fired three five shot groups at 100 yards. Then I cleaned it thoroughly, fire lapped it with fifteen shots of 500 grit and cleaned it again.

All machineing marks were gone. The next three five shot groups were all smaller and the velocity went up about fifteen feet per second.

I did the neco treatment in a 10/22. It helped.

Yup you made the bore smoother and bigger. That's what shooting sand down a barrel does.

I'm sure all these posters lauding the idea know more about barrels than Gale McMillan about barrel making, their care and feeding.

Yup I learned a long time ago that the experts aren't always correct. Perhaps you already know if you increase the bore size you drop the presure and subsiquently lower the velocity.

In the case above, the accuracy was impoved, it was easier to clean and the velocity went UP! Real life experience is always better than theory.

OregonMuley,
I've fire lapped several problem rifles and had good results with each. Although keep in mind it is not magic.

These were rifles that had obvious barrel issues. They had already been bedded and reloading didn't make a differance. These were rifles w/ barrels that had tight spots that killed accuracy. Lapping knocked the tight spots down and the rifles began to shape up and shoot. So yes I'm a big believer in the process for barrels that are junk otherwise.

I've never used the Tubbs method, I lapped my first rifle years ago before Tubbs offered it. Ross Seyfried (sp) an old G&A writer used to toute the process so I gave it a try using soft cast bullets per his instructions. Worked just fine and I've never changed my methods. I have lapping bullets in .224, 7mm, and .308 and .310dia. The Tubbs kits must work otherwise I don't think they'd sell for long.

Holler if you need some guidance. Or just moral support, the notion of firing gritty bullets down your rifles barrel is frightening indead. I know I sure though about it a long time before I did my first. It was a 7mmMag BAR that had a tight spot around the gas block. It went from 3" groups to a tad over 1moa before I stopped and took it hunting. Never went back to see what it could've done had I lapped more.
Hope this helps,
W.Tracker


This is typical of most every post I've found regarding the tubbs and Neco fire lapping systems.