Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Which domestic dog breed can hold its own against Wolves?

As I have stated before...
This is a free country... Well, sort of... So you can believe whatever you want. I came here to tell the truth from the point of view of someone who specializes in locating and busting dog fighting organizations.
Wolves CANNOT be as combative as fighting dogs are because NATURE demands a wild canine to have F E A R. A wolf will fight for food with the HELP of the pack. A wolf will RUN if he is outgunned because even a small wound can cause a wolf to die in the wild. There are NO VETS in the wild my friend. This is WHY nature programmed the wolf to FLEE rather than fight. A wolf that runs away will live to eat another day...
You are misinformed on all accounts...
A grizzly would DEMOLISH not just one wolf but an entire pack if it decided to test its mettle. The grizzly is the single most powerful carnivore on earth... More powerful than the lion and the tiger. Your statements regarding a wolf taking on a grizzly is, pardon my french, retarded.
I am not trying to be argumentative here but the fact that you think in terms of "Arkansas and Missouri" shows me that you have the "local yokel dog man" mentality. You most likely lived there all your life and what you know is what you know...
I have traveled the world over... Seen and got people arrested for dog fighting in Japan, Germany, France, Italy, Greece and so on...
That means I have a perspective on dog fighting you could not have if you spent your entire life in a certain area. The fact that you believe the best fighting dogs are in YOUR neighborhood is a laughable idea...
I will say it again...
I am NOT guessing what happens when a wolf runs into a well bred Pitbull, Tosa Inu, Perro Depresa, Bully Kutta and so on... I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS E V E R Y T I M E.
By the way... It is spelled "diminish" not "deminish"... Good try though...
Good luck in the Arkansas woods... I am off to Japan to speak against dog fighting on national TV.
Tell you what... Whittle me something in the meantime...

Lionman welcome to the fire where speculation trumps actual knowledge. found your post informative and right on the mark.

Bring what ever kind of dog you want. Leave it loose outside in the area from Hinckley Minnesota north to the border and above the north shore of Superior. Wolves hunt dogs you dip [bleep]. A dog in wolf territory, even one chained to the front steps, is at risk. Dogs do not kill and eat wolves. Wolves however do kill and often enough eat any damn dog they can get at, and they go out of their way to do it. Big dogs, little dogs. Tough dogs, soft dogs. Fast dogs, slow dogs. Fighting dogs, chicken dogs. Do you really think there are no pitts, GP, Rotts or Mastiffs here? An adult male wolf does not need help to kill anything. Groups of two or three wolves may specialize in killing moose, but one is enough to manage it.

Wolves can be taught to fear people, particularly people with guns. But... they do not fear other wolves, much less dogs, They hunt infringing wolves, singles or packs, and they most assuredly can and do kill each other.

Thank you my friend... I find it interesting that no amount of common sense will make a difference to those prefer to stay ignorant. Thank you for being the proud owner of a fully functioning brain. We need more people like you...

You are quite the angry little man aren't you...?
I won't stoop to your level and call you names but I will respond...
Your lack of intelligence and common sense is staggering...
A SINGLE dog against a pack of wolves...? That is not what the question was here...
It was a matter of one on one in an uninterrupted match.
This is a completely different issue altogether...
Fact is that in the thousands of matches over hundreds of years of novelty matches where wolves were matched against fighting dogs NOT A SINGLE VICTORY FOR THE WOLF HAS BEEN REPORTED.
Wolves are HUNTERS and SURVIVORS. Pitbulls, Tosa Inus, Perro De Presas, Bully Kuttas are WARRIORS. They lack the overall skill of survival of the wolf but in that one single arena they are VASTLY superior to the wolf.
Greyhounds beat the wolf at speed.
Bloodhounds beat the wolf at tracking.
Fighting dogs beat the wolf at fighting.
I keep repeating it... ONLY and I mean O N L Y novices are convinced that the wolf is superior to all dogs at all things all of the time. Experts simply know better.
A human assassin can kill any UFC champion by jumping at him when he least expects it... Much better yet a bunch of assassins against the MMA specialist... BUT!!! If you take that assassin and put him in a cage with the UFC fighter one on one it will look more like a spanking than an actual fight.
Just like a hunter (wolf) can kill a single Pitbull especially if the wolf has backup and the Pitbull is not the pinnacle of the breed.
My guess is that YOU have never seen a Pitbull that sells for 20,000 dollars and up. THAT is the kind of dog I am talking about. Not some backyard bred country bumpkin pitbull bred to sell for 50 bucks and a bottle of moonshine...
Thank you for sharing your wit... Or at least half of it. LOL

What is it with you?
You are honestly not able to distinguish between a wolf pack HUNTING and killing a dog and one on one mortal combat? Are you really that slow? Either you have the lowest IQ I have ever found in a human being OR you are the world's first dung beetle who is able to play on the Internet. In that case I applaud you for putting the turd down, learning how to type and hence representing your fellow dung beetles in a huge way! BRAVO!
I am starting to realize what your problem is and I am going to try and help you out because I am a giver...
Here are a few other things I bet you are also confused about...
1) The London Underground" is NOT a political movement.
2) The central message of Buddhism is NOT "every man for himself".
3) The Flintstones is NOT a documentary.
And finally...
4) A wolf can NOT beat a top of the line member of a fighting breed one on one EVER.
Dog fighters have a nasty habit of documenting every fight they put on. Wolves lose every time they are matched against fighters.
HUNTING is not FIGHTING. What don't you get about this?
Plus..
If you read and UNDERSTOOD (which I highly doubt) what I do then you would know that I am against setting up dogs to fight. The fact that you are challenging me to basically produce a dog fight for you shows your ignorance, your lack of humanity and quite frankly makes me want to investigate you further to see if I have found a case of an animal abuser in you. THIS is what I do. I find animal abusers and slap them with the law so hard it makes their wife/sister/cousin hurt.
You truly are an amazing specimen. I just hope you didn't breed. Please tell me your line ends with you...? Please?

Once again Lionman, you just don't have the real knowledge of what a wolf-pack can do to a bear! Bud, I know bears almost as well as dogs and I will say their are several other animals on the face of this earth that will make a grizzly bear into a Teddy Bear in a matter of minutes.

You must be some sort of Animal Control guy, who just got enough knowledge to get his ass burnt when standing to close to the fire. Geez!

I have spent a whole lot of time in Canada and up North and know what the hell a wolf can and can NOT do. You need to look up the facts of people in Canada, Alaska, Montanna etc who have in fact been killed by a lone wolf...who is feared of man and who runs away!!!

I have absolutely zero doubt that you believe your bull. Of course you do. I am also aware that a wolf can kill a man. So can even the average working dog by the way. In fact... MORE people get killed by dogs than they do by wolves... Look it up if you can read...
You are someone who lives in the mountains. Granted. You have seen some critters do stuff... OK. I made it my purpose in life to KNOW everything there is to know about dog fighting so I can END it. I am a MMA expert and I have spent my life fighting the illegal "sport" of dog fighting.
Do I believe that a bumpkin like you could kill me in the wild with the help of a bunch of your friends? Of course I do. But if you and I went toe to toe in a cage match I would make you my girlfriend.
Do I believe that a wolf pack can kill any single dog known to man? Of course... But if you take the pinnacle of any fighting breed and have it go one on one with the baddest wolf on the planet the wolf has absolutely no chance.
Nature produces horses... But the horses bred by man outrun any natural horse there is. Because man created a specialist called a RACE HORSE.
Nature produced the wolf... But the greyhound produced by man can out run the wolf to a ridiculous degree. Because man created a specialist called a "racing dog".
Nature produced the wolf (again)... But man created Pitbulls, Perro Depresas, Tosas and so on. These dogs can fight on a level the wolf doesn't even comprehend. Because man created a specialist called a "fighting dog".
Am I going slow enough for you...?
You are confused about what fighting is. No... Let me rephrase that... You are just confused, period.
Look...
I am not here to give you a hard time. You are beaten enough by life itself. I am just trying to be helpful, you know? I figured that maybe... Somewhere in that round thing you call a head is a mass of squishy stuff... I thought that maybe you could find a way to produce a thought. I was wrong... I apologize. I will leave you to your brain farts and wish you well... I will pray to the almighty shamalamadingdong to make sure the big bad wolf won't get you while you're squatting in front of your trailer pushing out I am sure you think is play doh...
Dear God... Please throw brains from heaven...?

Lion man you are probably one of those pathetic individuals who think everything passed off as a wolf is a wolf. Most are not and have no wolf heritage within many generations. A wolf hybrid is not a wolf. If your ferocious fighting dogs were half as adept at killing wolves as you dream, they would have been used to get rid of wolves here, they would be much cheaper than hiring a man with guns and traps and aircraft. It didn't happen and it won't happen no matter how much you'd like to think it might. Like I said, if your fighting dogs are so good take them out and show the world. You could make enough money to retire on by selling them to ranchers.

Whether you like it or not, a pack of wolves hunting may be spread out over a couple of miles. An adult male wolf out in his territory will kill a dog in seconds and he is well conditioned to do just that because if he comes in contact with an adult male from another pack given half an opportunity one will kill the other. That's life in their world coyotes and most domestic canines are but a couple seconds work and killed by single wolves. There is no fighting going on, just killing.

I currently spend a lot of time where three packs territories intersect. I grew up around wolves. I have never seen more than one wolf at a time other than near den sites. Finding wolf tracks from a single wolf is most common. They might be members of a pack, but they don't necessarily spend all that much time together.

Bring your dogs. I can put you into the proximity of wolves in a hurry. It won't take but a couple of days and you'll learn what a wild wolf (singular) will do with a dog. I am sure there are a lot of folks out west that'd think you a hero if you could produce a single dead wild wolf.

Can you show me even one time and place in this country with wild wolves where fighting dogs were of use to control them?

I am done "talking" to you.
I don't know what a wolf is? I am a friggin cynologist you half wit. I spent my entire life researching in theory AND real life experiences anything regarding the canine species. There are 17 books in five languages regarding dog history for which my input was needed.
I tried to give you the benefit of doubt but you have proven to me one thing... You are dumber than the sperm you came from.
I own underwear with a higher IQ. I know sheep that can out wit you. You have not responded to anything I said. You just keep spouting out the same old bull your bumpkin brain can produce.
Those who have an IQ higher than their shoe size already know who is making sense here. You are just an old, sad red neck with zero comprehension past the tip of your moonshine pimple riddled honker.
I will respond to others but I am done here. This is not a conversation...
I will take back my prayers for you... I now hope that the big bad wolf comes to rid this world of something that should have never happened in the first place.
Kick that goat who birthed you in the pooper for me, will you?
I am out.

I noticed that even though I thought I made myself perfectly clear in my first post many... How do I say this... Not so smart people still didn't get the point.
I will revise my original post and add some more detail for those who think that the mind is a terrible thing...

Before I get into this I want to express that NONE of what I am about to say are speculations.
I have been active in the fight against organized dog fighting for 30 years hands on. I have lead countless investigations which lead to convictions of dog fighters all over the world.
I have participated in busting these so called "tournaments" which are nothing more than sick games for psychopaths. Anyone who takes pleasure in animals of any kind suffering is one step away from being a human murderer.
I don't mean to include hunters which are important to the survival of many species. I am talking about the sick pleasure of torturing and killing animals for [bleep] and giggles.

What I have seen in my many years of busting dog fighting rings is that for the most part only so called fighting breeds are used. I said for the most part because there are also many "novelty" matches where a fighting breed such as a pitbull, Tosa Inu or Perro De Presa is matched against all kinds of other species...
Most often the wolf is used for these spectacles. The motivation of course is the age old question about who would win in a one on one fight.

I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty and without any speculation on my part that the wolf NEVER wins under these circumstances.
Novices are surprised when they hear what true dog men have known all along. Now please don't get me wrong. Being an animal lover and activist I am not here to diminish the wolf nor the dog... I am just here to share my real life discoveries with those of you who are speculating and are interested in finding out the truth to the question posted.
Indulge me if you will...

Dog fighting is first and foremost about winning money. People who fight dogs are not "breed fanatics" who love one breed more than another just because it is Sunday. People who fight dogs would show up with a Chihuahua if it could win a fight and make them some cash. With that in mind the question arises... "Why do people who fight dogs ONLY use fighting breeds in these barbaric spectacles?"
The answer is cut and dry: "Because no other canine other than a well bred fighting dog can go toe to toe with another fighting dog".
Over hundreds of years people have attempted countless times to find dogs of non fighting breeds and even wolves who could win a match. People went as far as trying to fight wolfdogs, pure wolves and even went into the wild to capture the most aggressive wild wolves but the results remained the same.
No wolf in history, fresh from the wild or otherwise has ever won a match against a true fighter. The fact is that these men also document all of the fight results... So there is literally hundreds of years of evidence showing us the same result...
NO WOLF CAN GO ONE ON ONE WITH A CHAMPION FIGHTER, PERIOD.

Some people "think" that wolves fight harder if they are not cornered like they are in a dog fighting pit. This of course is a ridiculous notion because everyone knows that a cornered animal that has no chance of running fights HARDER than it would in the wild.
Some people also "think" that reports of dogs getting killed by wolves is some kind of proof that wolves are superior fighters. Again this is ridiculous.
Wolves don't fight one on one in the wild. They fight in a pack. Saying that a wolf is tougher because a wolf pack killed a dog is like saying that a group of ten average men are tougher than a UFC champion because they killed him in a mad mob killing frenzy.

Novices believe that anything nature created will beat anything man created at any task, any time and anywhere.
That is completely false of course...

Nature made wild horses... Man made race horses... Which ones do you believe are faster? If nature produced faster horses than controlled breeding does then people would just catch a horse and throw it into a race. There is a reason why people don't do that. The reason is simple... Because the man made "specialist" at running, the race horse, will win every time.

Nature made the wolf... Man made the Bloodhound... Which one do you think has a more powerful sense of smell?

Again... Nature made the wolf... Man made fighting dogs...
Does it not make sense that just like the race horse and the Bloodhound, the fighting breed has but one talent the wolf can not compete with?

When you look at the wolf you will see that he has NONE of the shortcomings man made breeds suffer from. Nature knows best when it comes to creating a perfectly functioning member of the wild. The wolf is completely independent while canis familiaris is not.
In order to create the perfect survivor there has to be balance. A survivor has to be well rounded and needs many different skills so nature endowed the wolf with a good amount of all of them rather than making the wolf a "specialist" with one giant talent...

A Warrior dog does not need many different skills... It needs but ONE.
A warrior is not a survivor like the wolf. It is a different talent altogether.
A survivor K9 has to be a good hunter with a keen sense of smell in order to find food. He has to be able to run fast enough to catch prey so he can eat and has to be SCARED enough to run from ANY confrontation not crucial to survival.
Since there are no vets in the wild a wolf could die even from a small wound which will go untreated...

A warrior K9 is a SPECIALIST at combat. It matters not if the warrior is a good hunter because his human will feed him. It matters not that the warrior has the best nose in the world because he does not need to find or hunt prey. It matters not if the warrior dog gets injured during a fight because vet care is available if his human cares to give it... The ONLY thing that matters is that the warrior is superior at ONE task... Fighting.

It is like comparing a trained human survival specialist to a UFC fighting champion...
Drop off the UFC champion in the jungle with no food or help and he will die a certain death. Because fighting is his only skill he simply does not have the tools to make it in that environment.
The survival specialist has all the skills needed to survive... Tough enough to fight for his life, knows what animals to run from, what animals to eat, how to kill them and how to find a way to maintain.
But...
If you put that survival specialist up against a UFC champion in a cage match then he is going to be beaten to a pulp.
I believe that both talents deserve equal respect...

I know that novices believe that the wolf is superior to all breeds of dog at every single task but... This is simply not true.

Canis familiaris has been specialized by man in order to make a particular breed superior to the wolf at a particular and SINGULAR task.
The greyhound is faster than the wolf...
The bloodhound has a better nose than the wolf...
The mastiff is more powerful than the wolf and so on...
But the all around best survivor is the wolf because he lives or dies based on his all around skills... Not just a singular one.
The warrior dog survives on ONE single skill... The ability to either kill all comers in one on one combat or perish.
So...
While nature programmed flight into the wolf as the most logical and effective means of survival, the pitbulls survival depends on his ability to KILL at any cost even at the cost of it's own health. PERIOD.
A fighting breed does not retreat... EVER. This is a trait nature would weed out because even a small wound can and often means death. The pitbull has the advantage to get fixed up after he wins the fight no matter how much damage was done as long as his owner is pleased.
Common sense will tell anyone with an IQ higher than the average horse fly that this kind of "survival of the fittest" will inevitably produce the ultimate warrior canine.

When man decided to "improve" on nature he did the following...
Let's say that we want to produce a dog that is a better fighter than the wolf then this is an easy task...
We start breeding for courage, skill and power above anything else... If we don't have to worry about creating an all around survivor then one single and extremely magnified skill will be our focus.
We eventually end up with a dog that will defeat the wolf in one on one combat but this warrior dog will not be on par with the wolf when it comes to surviving. It will beat the wolf at this one singular task but will be inferior in many other aspects.

If a well bred Tosa Inu was dropped off in the wild the dog would have almost zero chance of survival. Because man created a dog unafraid of anything. A dog that doesn't retreat will get injured even if he wins the fight. In the wild even a small injury that goes untreated will cause death.
The Tosa is NOT a survivor and cannot compete with the wolf on wolf territory.

If you put the wolf in a cage with the Tosa Inu the wolf has almost zero chance of survival because now the wolf is on Tosa territory.
Again... This is no guess on my part. In all of my years of trying to wipe out the inhumane atrocity called dog fighting I have never seen a wolf that survived against a true member of a fighting breed one on one.

The very nature of man breeding dogs was to magnify a certain and singular wolf trait in order to make that particular breed superior to the wolf at that singular task. This is why each breed, while inferior to the wolf in many different ways, has one skill which has been magnified to the utmost and to the point where even the wolf cannot compete.

A wolf NEEDS to have a certain amount of fear in order to avoid fights which are not important for survival. Most fights wolves engage in are more show than go. Because the wolf depends on his living and healthy pack mates to survive himself. The warrior dog fights with a single mindedness and quiet resolve that scares the living [bleep] out of any opponent, including the wolf right out of the gate. But... A dog which has been bred to be more brave, aggressive and powerful than a wolf will engage in fights which are not important for survival because the dog does not have the fear (survival instinct) to make it run when it should.

The reason why man would want such a dog is also simple...

A wolf would not make a great guardian for man because he would only protect to a point. As soon as the wolf realizes that he could get seriously hurt then his survival instinct (fear) will kick in and he will run away leaving his human to fend for himself.
This is no guess on my part either. Being a complete K9oholic I have many friends who live with, protect and some even breed wolves. These people love and understand the wolf for what it is rather than what novices THINK the wolf is...

A dog which has been bred to be more brave and powerful than the wolf will continue protecting his human above and beyond what a wolf would or could do.
So for human needs the trade off makes sense...
The dog might not be as great a survivor in the wild but a much more effective guardian and protector for man than the wolf could ever be.

So while man improved on a certain aspect of the K9 species another part inevitably diminished.

Finally...
I often hear people tell tales of wolves who killed Pitbulls, GSDs who killed Perro De Presas and son on...
These people "think" this is proof of a wolf or GSD being superior to the Pitbull let's say...
What these people don't realize is the fact that MOST "pitbulls" are not what I am talking about here. Not all Pitbulls are created equal.
I am not saying that it is impossible to find an extra powerful and aggressive wolf which might be able to kill some 1500 or less USD inferior specimen Pitbull someone bought from a backyard breeder...
What I am saying is that if you take care to find the best of the best of the fighting breeds and pay a fee of 15,000, 20,000 or more USD for the finest stock available... Then there is absolutely NO CONTEST.

I hope I was able to logically convey my experiences in regards to the original question. In closing I want to say one more thing...
I truly hope that this question was not based on someone having the desire to see a dog fight of any kind. People like Michael Vick and any dog fighters like him are mentally ill. It is a fact that every single mass murderer in history started out torturing and killing animals before moving on to the bigger "thrill" of killing humans.
Please...
If any of you ever come across information regarding people who fight dogs then please do the right thing. Report them to the authorities immediately.
Thank you for reading this admittedly long winded response.
Bless you all...

I have no dog in this fight (pun intended) but I would have to agree with Lionman. A true blue game fighting dog would kill a wolf in the pit and probably on open ground in a match one on one. If wolves were that good of fighters they would be in the pits instead of pit bulls and the like. There is not much that can take a well conditioned fighting dog (speaking of the dog, wolf family). Just my opinion though, I don't condone fighting dogs but I do know what they are. Pound for pound they will kill a wolf.

You are absolutely correct. But trying to convey that to someone who watches little red riding hood as if it were a documentary is pointless... You know? LOL

I have never seen what you have seen, but I have seen fighting dogs. Pit bulls only, as a matter of fact. A game bulldog is a whole different animal than the ones you see running the street in some neighborhood. They could not be let loose like that in most cases, they would be killing every hound, rot, german shepard and the like they seen.

Again you are correct sir.
Most people simply have no idea what a REAL "game" bulldog (real dog men call the pitbull simply bulldog as you just did) is nor what it is capable of.
The wolf is a magnificent survivor and is tough enough. But true fighters have such ability that even a 45 pound game bred bulldog literally demolishes a 150 pound "fresh from the wild" wolf. Now imagine what a 180 pound Tosa would do to an equal size wolf. It is literally not a fight... It is an execution.
In one of the cases where I helped the local police in paris France I even witnessed a 65 pound pitbull kill a 170 pound mountain lion. The pitbull was battered but nonetheless defeated the very much larger cat. The amazing thing was, which by the way is a typical pitbull trait, that even after this ferocious fight the dog went back to being a friendly lover as soon as the battle was over. People have no idea what canine DNA can create once you focus on one singular talent.

I had a couple of ex fighters once, left behind by someone. One was a brinnel color (Seager was his name) and the other a red nose (Booger his name). Seager was a 50-55 pound dog and Booger was a 65 or so pound dog. Seager was the lover of the two, he would actually play with other dogs, pups especially so. Booger was a different kind of dog, good with the family but that was all. I found them new homes (good ones) later on but enjoyed them while I had them.

I know what you mean... They are GREAT dogs. If only people were smart enough to be worthy of the existence of these special guys. All power and love... Cannot beat it.

As you admit, your dogs out in wolf territory will end up wolf [bleep]. One wolf or ten, it will make no difference. That's why there are no examples of dogs wiping out wild wolves in North America.

If they were of any utility even in the least, they'd be used and they'd be widely dispersed across wolf range. As far as dogs keeping wolves at bay goes, a chihuahua is about as useful as anything because it advertises the presence of people, which most wolves avoid.

You have no point. you know well a dog, any dog, loose in wolf territory is a target to die in a hurry. You do have a lot of mouth, I'll give you that though.

Your ability to ignore what I am REALLY saying and replacing it with your own retarded idea of what you "THINK" I am saying is staggering.
You simply lack intelligence. Your comments reek of stupidity. You are unable to read, digest and respond logically. You represent everything this world doesn't need. You are as weak as your arguments.
While I found you mildly amusing in the beginning I am tiring of responding to your pointless brain farts.
How can I have a conversation with someone who is not even able to read and digest what I am trying to convey?
My 5 year old neighbors daughter Cindy would destroy you in a battle of wits.
You are simply, pardon my French, stone cold [bleep] stupid.
Do the world a favor and take a bath holding a plugged in blow dryer, will ya?