Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Europe General bore size requirements for big game

I have read that in many parts Europe (including Finland, Etc.) that 8mm bore size or larger is required for big game like elk. Is this true?

Is that the size required for Moose?

I did read there are restrictions on cartridges developed or used in the military. Is this true?

What country are you looking for?

How about Finland and Sweeden.

In Finland, for moose, a minimum of 9g bullet with 2700J of kinetic energy at 100 meters is required. Alternatively, a 10g bullet with 2000J at 100 meters. So no caliber restrictions per se.

For pigs, white tail and such big game with the exception of moose and bear, 6g with E100 > 2000J or 8g E100 > 1700J. For roe deer, beaver, wolf and such "medium game", 3.2g E100 > 800J.

ruistola,you are helpful but for dummies like me, the metric enrgy numbers escape me. Would any of the European hunters be kind enough to give me a conversion??

joules - foot lbs
2700 = 1991.4441658061662
2000 = 1475.143826523086
1700 = 1253.8722525446232
800 = 590.0575306092344

grams = grains
9 g = 138.891 gr
10 g = 154.323 gr
8 g = 123.458 gr
6 g = 92.5940 gr
3.2 g = 49.3834 gr

In France we have a minimum requirement of 1000joules (about 740 flbs) at hundred meters. So you can use 222Rem for big game. Nobody except poachers use such caliber but for roes and foxes. Even for roe better stay inside 100m (110yards)and broadside for a quick human kill.
Generaly for stalking roes, 243 is the minimum used by real hunters, conscious and responsible together with more and more 22-250 and 5,6x57, 7-08 and 6,5. For mountain game the various 6,5 (57/57R, 65/65R, 68) mixed with 270, 7x64, 270WSm, 7Rem mag plus other more exotic calibers (264, 240/257/270Weatherby)are the most common.
For red deers, boars: stalk and driven hunts the calibers mostly used are: 270Winch, 7x64/65R, 300WM/WSM, 270WSM, 7Rem mag, 8x57IRS, 8x64S, 8x68S. In driven hunt 300WM/WSM, 35Whelen, 8x57IRS, 9,3x62/74R, 30R Blaser, 444/450Marlin and even 45/70 (by handloaders)are the more frequently met ammos. You also meet the 350Rem Mag, 338Fed, and some 338Winch Mag in semi auto BAR.
RWS, Norma, Winchester, Remington plus other brand are used by hunters who most of time don't reload.
In driven hunts, generaly, the "hunt director", manager of the property or area fixes a reasonable caliber to reduce risk of wounded and lost game.
We have a maximum shooting distance fixed by law for hunting: 300m or 330yards more or less so in mountain area you better stay fit! No sniping allowed nor motor vehicule...
Some hunters who are also good LR target shooters push the enveloppe a bit but if you're caught by the game warden you loose licence, firearm, scope and pay a very good fine...

We are one million hunters and depends on area and game you can hunt from 1st of April till the 15teen of march. Most of seasons begin 1st of june till 28 of february. In totally fenced areas you can hunt all year long.
I went a bit far of the original question but it gives you idea of what are laws and hunting here in that european country.

Thanx pard (mossbergman). These guys are great in the help category, but sometimes a bit of "extra" is needed.

You have white tail deers in Finland ?

Germany:

6,5mm (.264") minimum and 2000 Joules (1475 ftlbs) at 100m (110') for big game except roedeer.

Roe can be legally shot with any rifle giving more than 1000 Joules (~ 735 ft lbs) at 100 m (110').

ET - you know, we trys, but we is not perfekt.

Best looking guys around ze fire we are though fo sure...

Yes GV, Finns have whitetails: they were offered at the beginning of XXth century by some US president (don't remember who exactly) storm or war broke the park fences and now they roam free in the south of Finland and are rather numerous and in good shape as my friend Jussi Soikkanen, redactor of most famous hunting magazine in Finland explained me.

Amazing.

First time I read about this.

Do you know how good do the local species share the grounds with them ?

My friend told me it seems to have no real problem and south of Finland look like Canada or north of USA where the deers live without problem and grow very big sometimes. They are hunted in Finland with success.

They also have them in New Zealand...

Correct - two wild herds, one on Stewart Island and the other around Lake Wakatipu in the South Island.

I have hunted on Stewart Island. The animals are a good size, but the antlers are pathetic compared to the USA.

As anybody turned up a moose in recent years?

I know they are supposedly extict in New Zealand, but rumours persist a small population may still exist in one of the more remote areas..

To my friends on the other side of the world, thanks for the information.

I noticed some cartridges that are high velocity - over 3,000 ft per second, listed as well. What is the general view of fast movers. I am a meat hunter, so I like little less velocity - less meat destruction.

In the UK, the way the Stalking industry is structured means that much of the venison produced is sold into the commercial food chain.

Therefore if a person turns up with a .270win with Nosler Balistic Tips and starts chest shooting our smaller or medium sized deer with those, many will take a dim view of it due to the extreme carcass damage likely to be present..

Regards,

Peter

From Wiki...

"In 1900 an attempt to introduce moose into the Hokitika area failed and ten moose, four bulls and six cows, were introduced into Fiordland in 1910. The last proven sighting of a moose in New Zealand was in 1952. A moose antler was found in 1972 and DNA tests showed that hair collected in 2002 was from a moose. Extensive searching has been carried out and while automated cameras failed to capture photographs, evidence was seen of bedding spots, browsing and antler marks."

Although this photo (link attached) was taken on a trail cam in 2009 by Ken Tustin (highly regarded researcher). Moose or what...

http://www.unexplainable.net/Simply-Unexplainable/Moose-in-New-Zealand.shtml

PS: Some of the stuff in the write up associated with this picture is rubbish. eg: we don't have Chital in NZ.

Thanks Mike, thats very interesting stuff..I wouldn't like to say what was in the picture, given the distortion from the lens, but it would be amazing to think that Fiordland still contains a small population of moose. In many ways, if there are there, it is perhaps better they remain "undiscovered"..

With regards the Chital/Axis, thats my understanding too; Oz has them, as do some of the remote islands in the region, but not NZ..Possibly they are getting mixed up with Sambar...

You guys really do have some of the finest hunting in the world!