Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer What powder ??

I have used the 200gr Nosler in my 300 WM for a long time and recently clocked some Federal High Energy ammo with that bullet. It was no surprise that it was faster then my handloads by a 100 fps or more and it made me wonder if one of the newer powders might be a better choice then 7828,RL22 and RL25. I get about 2,900 fps+ with these powders at listed max charges. I know you use this bullet also. What powder works for you ??
-Doc-

I sure as hell aint' MD, but I did stay the night at a Holiday Inn last night, so;

The factories have access to many powders that "we" aren't privvy to, unless you are willing to order a few thousand pounds of it...

What the heck, order it, & put it on the sale block. I will get maybe 3 pounds for $10.00 per each?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Any one else???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pat

Thats sort of what I heard from a Fed rep. He thought it might be a duplex load also. I have not been able to keep up with all the new propellants. I was disappointed with RL25 it just duplicates RL22 but you have to use more. John posted some loads on the LoadData board for the 300 WSM using some of the new stuff so I thought he might have some current input.
I am using old stuff. Win Mag Rifle(WMR) with John's help I worked up some loads that break 3k with a 200gr and no pressure. Its a slow lot I am sure and that is most likely why it was replaced. Lot to lot variance. It happens John says more then we realize.
-Doc-

XXBob - It also seems to have been happening forever. I have been trying to figure out why it is that lot to lot consistency isn't more important to the manufacturers.

Yeah, the ammo companies do usually use powders we can't. This doesn't always mean they're superior, however. Sometimes they definitely aren't. Some of the cheaper Ball powders used in some factory loads are far inferior in fouling and temperature sensitivity than many powders we can buy off the shelf. But they have two virtues that help a lot in producing lots and lots of factory ammo: They're cheap, and they measure well.

Sometimes the factories use loading techniques we can't. Many of the new "Light Magnum" sort of loads have more powder inside the case than we can stuff in there. How do they do it? The best guess is some sort of vacuum, applied through the flash-hole. They won't say, however, for obvious reasons.

It is devilishly hard to manufacture powder exactly the same way each time. Yeah, you can put all the same chemicals together, by evidently variances in atmospheric moisture make arriving at EXACTLY the same powder almost impossible from lot to lot. This is why the powders handloaders buy are sometimes blended (or otherwise modified) to arrive at APPROXIMATELY the same burning rate as the last lot.

Most of the powders used by the factories are unblended, and thus only approximations of the last lot. But they buy them in huge lots, then retest them until they find a workable load for the next million-round batch of 180's in .300 Winchester. If you visit the factory while this is going on, you won't recognize ANY of the numbers on the powder barrels. (Yes, that's right, barrels.)

Lot to lot consistency is very important to the manufacturers, but there's only so much they can do about it.

MD

XXBob mentioned WMR powder. Does anyone have any idea why both WMR and H-450 (Different lots of the same powder) were simultaneously removed from the market place? Doesn't this passing seem strange? I used lots of WMR and a shooting buddy's favorite powder was H-450.
I bought up all one gun store had it stock when I found out it was being discontinued.
Paul B.

PJ,check where WMR made,that might give you an idea of what's close.

A friend of mine found a batch of WMR he liked and stocked up. I fell heir to it and it is very close to Accurate Mag Pro.
I liked H450 also at least my 284 Win loved it. Hodgdon brought H450 back a few ago sorry to hear its gone again.
It should work in the new short mags I would think.
-Doc-

XXBob--

Forgot to answer your original question. I used to use Reloder 22 with 200-grain bullets in the .300 Winchester Magnum, because it gave the highest velocities and smallest groups. Sounds like a good combinstion--but then I got to testing the leads in cold weather. RL22 is one of the most cold-sensitive powders on the market, and a lot of our hunting here in Montana is done a cold temps. Found that loads worked up at 70 did not act the same at zero!

H4831 and H1000 are two powders suitable for the task that do well in cold. Lately, however, I have been using Ramshot Magnum with 200's in the .300 WM. It is less cold-sensitive than RL22 and gives excellent velocities. From the 25-inch Hart barrel of my Sisk custom rifle it pushes 3000 fps with loads well under the listed maximums in the Ramshot loading manual, and with excellent accuracy.

According to the boys at Ramshot, Magnum is a little more temp-sensitive than the other Ramshot rifle powders (which I have found just as good as the Hodgdon Extremes in that regard) but so far I have not had any problems.

MD

Thanks John I did not know that RL22 was temp sensitive. I drew a late season tag for elk in Nevada and it will be cold in December. I would like to try the Ramshot line, but it is hard to find in my neck of the woods. Might have to make a trip to Reno and do some shopping. If the weather cooperates I will test my loads in the cold. I have tested WMR and Accurate 4831 the surplus powder they sold a few ago in the cold (-9) and they both did rather well. The folks at Accurate Powder told me the stuff they sold under the name Mag Rifle was recent Mfg mill spec 4831 and should work in cold weather. They also suggested I try Mag Pro. I havent clocked Mag Pro in the cold, but it gave high velocity and good accuracy in several rifles, 270, 25/06 and 300 WSM.
Its cold in New Zealand right now and south island looks a lot like Montana beautiful wild rivers over a hundred glaciers. Great trout and off shore fishing.
You know John you could just pop over there and test some powders in the cold. That should come under your job description.
-Doc-

PJ Gunner
I did not know H450 and WMR were the same recipe. H414 and Win 760 are the same according to the folks at Hodgdon.
I have components going back to the 50's and dug up some old Hodgdon powder cans just for the helluva it. I also have some Hi Vel and Ideal powder cans. Just the cans the powder is long gone. The Hodgdon cans are red and yellow and have loading data on the back for both 4831 and H450. The price on both cans is 89 cents. Yep that was awhile ago. The load data is the same for both powders. I know 4831 was a military surplus powder so H450 must have been also.
The last H450 I bought was perhaps 10 years ago at a gun show and it is just a ball version of 4831 in my rifles.
On the other hand all the WMR I have used is much slower and the stuff I have now is on a par with 7828,RL25 very slow.
I just talked to a ballistic tech at Accurate and he told me that Mag Pro, WMR,WXR and H450 are all the same just different lots or batches I quess. That was interesting to me so I thought I would pass it on.
-Doc-

New Zealand is on my list. Also thinking about Mongolia--but the trout in NZ are calling along with the big game!

MD

I lost two friends hunting in Mongolia. I always wanted to hunt Ovis Poli sheep myself. I regret not going to NZ sooner. I went to school in San Diego and got to know the late Ted Williams. He was a fishing fanatic and gave me the handle double X Bob Ted raved about the fishing in NZ. The hunting is great also, but the terain is steep and rugged. It was very reasonable a few ago not sure what it costs now.
-Doc-

Doc,

It is still pretty reasonable in NZ, and getting firearms into and out of Aotearoa is definitely easier than Australia.

Lots of nice folks there too, and no snakes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

jim

Thanks Hunter Jim. I see your location is San Diego. Iam mending from surgery and can not visit that part of the planet this year, but maybe in the spring. Their spring they do not have hunting seasons as you know. I got to know quite a few people that became famous or were famous when I lived in San Diego. I ran a sport fishing boat out of Fishermans Landing in Pt Loma worked for Bill Poole. Now Willy is a hunter or was we are getting along in years. Bill got a 400+ elk in Ariz a few ago.
Then there was this girl I met at San Diego State. She was kind of cute. She went to La Jolla high. In highschool her name was Jo-Raquel Tejada. You might know her as Raquel Welsh.
Hey a guy has to do something in between the hunt'n and fish'n.
-Doc-

Doc,

Her name definitely rings the bell, and she is still a very good looking woman. I was thinking she went to one of the City high schools.

I know the Poole's from SCI, we are all in the same Chapter. Bill's wife Ingrid and I are on the Board now. They definitely have a great trophy room!

My wife has a relation who runs a boat too (Tim Green).

Good hunting in Kiwi Land. I have a cousin there and he reports great results.

jim

Mark Twain was right you can never go home. I just did a long range fishing trip out of San Diego and drove down Rosecrans Blvd to the docks. The Naval Training Center(NTC) is gone and most of the Marine Corps Recruit Depot(MCRD) is gone. High rent district Point Loma. I wonder when they will dig up the graves on Fort Rosecrans. San Diego held the line on development for a long time, but it really started to grow in the late 70's.
It is still a beautiful city with the best climate on this planet.
-Doc-