Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Best velocity for optimum (bullet) performance ?

Where can I find info on the best velocity for optimum performance from each brand of bullet ?

Lets say that bullet Z performs best at 2957 fps. Then what?

Do you only shoot at game at 132 yards which is the distance that bullet is at that velocity, assuming sea level with 59% humidity?

Fast rounds, tough bullets, slow rounds generic bullets. Or split the difference and use a partition on everything.

I assume you are speaking of performance on game?

Not to sound curt, but it is very vague. Is the bullet going to hit bone? Is the game have a full winter coat? TOO MANY VARIABLES.

Howie38 �

Some manufactures provide that information, others make you guess, but guessing isn�t that hard.

First I�ll assume you are talking about big game bullets rather than varmint bullets. Second, since most people use bolt guns these days (although lever guns are far more fun), we�ll start there. Standard �cup and core� bullets will expand reliably at relatively slow velocities � say 1800fps. I�ve been shooting 160g Grand Slams in my 7mm Mag for over 20 years and launching them at 2852fps. They don�t slow down to 1800fps until past 500 yards - well beyond the range at which I would take a shot at game. At the same time they have worked very reliably at 100 yards where they are doing about 2624fps. Most �cup and core� bullets will work just fine when impact velocities are in the 1800-2600fps range � the problems generally occur when higher impact velocities are encountered, either because of close range, higher muzzle velocities, or both.

The 7mm Hornady 162g BTSP I took my first elk with impacted at an estimated 2822fps and didn�t fare too well � the elk died but the bullet lost well over 50% of its original weight even though it did not encounter much bone. Its anybody�s guess how the Hornady would have fared had it impacted at 2600fps, but my guess is it would have retained far more weight and exited.

Nosler solved a lot of problems by introducing the Partition back in 1948. The Partitions open up reliably at low velocities and the cross-member limits expansion and weight loss at higher impact velocities. The Partitions are popular because, quite simply, they are affordable and they work reliably at all speeds. Swift improved on the Partition design by bonding the front core in place in their A-Frame bullets. Speer�s Trophy Bonded bullets limit expansion by using a solid shank with a bonded core up front, as do the North Fork bullets. I would be confident using any of these bullets in any big game rifle.

Barnes solves the over-expansion expansion problem by using a solid copper bullet. Combined Technologies (Nosler and Winchester) use a copper front section with a lead core in the rear to limit over expansion. While some people swear by these bullets, others including myself have had questionable results where the bullets either failed to expand or the petals broke off leaving a caliber-diameter slug to do the job. I�m loading up TSX�s in my .257 Roberts and .300 Win Mag but will most likely hunt with Grand Slams or Partitions in the .257 and North Forks in the .300.

Some folks don�t think �premium� bullets are necessary, but IMHO you don�t have to worry about under- or over-expansion problems with the Partition, Trophy Bonded, North Fork or A-Frame bullets. They just work.

What I�m talking about is, At what velocity ( or range of) does a certain bullet have to hit to expand the way it was designed to do on impact.
I just started reloading for my 30/30 & 45 LC. (And soon 44 mag.) levers. I found that I get good groups ( @100 - 150 yds) with 150gr, Sierra FP in my 30/30 with a high load of w748 or a light load of IMR 3031. After figuring out how fast that 150gr bullet is flying from 50 to 150 yds , is that 3031 bullet flying too slow to expand properly on contact or maybe the W748 is flying too fast & furious and cuts right through without expanding fully.
I'll be working up some loads of 300gr Hornady JHP/XTP for my 45LC Winchester 94. Along with some cast for plinking. I just want to be sure that the XTPs will be in their effective range.

Too fast and furious is a contradiction of terms when applied to a 30-30. Mostly your velocity is limited by case capacity, and you probably don't vary from a hot load to a cool load by 200 ft per sec. That being the case, take whatever shoots good, and as long as there is a good bit of lead exposed, and there should be for the tubular mags of the levers you shoot, you should get limited reliable expansion, within the design parametres of the round you are shooting.

I will add that I have been very pleased with the XTP bullets for hand gun deer hunting. Many would tell you to go with hard cast slugs for really big stuff, but other than that, I think you will be well pleased with the Hornadys.
John

Bullet makers have bullets just for the 30-30, usually a 150-gr. or 170-gr. RN or FN. They're designed for 30-30 velocities and after more than a century of R&D, they're just about perfect. 3031 is THE classic 30-30 powder, so you're right where you want to be. The standard cartridges got figured out long ago and it's hard to go wrong with them. You probably don't need to worry much about bullet performance until you get into the belted magnums.

Or, like Steelhead said, just use Partitions in everything and call it good.


Okie John

Here�s why I�m asking so many questions,
I started reloading just 6 week ago. I scanned the web, read all the books (I could find), consulted powder, bullet, & reloading equipment manufactures and they all pretty much list the same �powder loads�. I used this info and made 2 to 3 loads of each and tried them at the range. I found some loads that worked well & managed to �tweak� them for even better performance (groups).
But then, when I read all the posts on �hunting loads�. (and I spend hours every night in every forum I can find) they are all 3,4,5,6 grains over what all the bullet, powder and relode. equip. Manufactures call �maximum ( [color:"red"] NEVER EXCEED [/color] ) loads�
! Know they�re going to give you a margin of safety to keep the lawyers happy. But still, it makes me wonder if the bullets will perform as well as they should.

TINSTAAFL- There is no such thing as a free lunch. Just my impressioin but looking at brass is like looking at tea leaves for estimating proper results. I'd get a cheap chronograph, adjust about 25 fps for barrel length up and down and don't exceed the original loading manuals maximum velocity, no matter what the powder charge used. Adjust 2 fps for temperature too, as in loads shot at 89 degrees should shoot 60 fps faster than standard 59 degrees loads the velocities are adjusted for in the manuals. Think about where you might end up shooting your loads you develop on a cool day and shoot in the heat of summer, back off you maximum velocity accordingly. Also, adjust 1 fps for each foot you are from the chronograph. Mostly, we are spoiled and bedazzled by ever more exact data sources. Let well enough alone and try the two or three recommended fastest powders for your caliber selection, adjust for your magazine's overall length and don't seat bullets into the rifling. One other thing, determine overall length limitations by using a dowel to seat your chosen bullet into the chamber, touching the rifling. Insert a cleaning rod down the muzzle until you touch the bullet's nose, make a knife edge mark on the rod, removed the bullet, close the bolt and then make a second mark. The difference between these two marks is your rifle's maximum overall load length. If you are target shooting and back off several grains from maximum, you can get more accuracy seating into the rifling. Personally, I like loads that are hunting reliable, which means I don't go over SAMMI maximum overall length or what will load in my magazines. Barnes does say to stay .050 inches off the rifling to avoid over pressure in any case, with their X bullets. I just got a .38-55 and will soon join the lever action reloading faternity. I get the impression you must pretty well stick to the original designed overall length to get rounds reliably out of the magazine tube and into the chamber of a lever action. You probably already know the safety need to use flat nosed bullets to avoid setting off the primer on the rounds in the magazine too.
With less expensive factory loads, and their bullets, stick to conventional velocity ranges, and don't worry about down range velocity. Hornady used to recommend muzzle velocity ranges for their bullets, say 2300 fps to 3300 fps and Barnes states their bullets will expand down to 1600 fps, with no upper limit.
I shoot .45 Colt and .44 Magnums quite a bit in conventional revolvers. The Hornady XTPs expand quite a bit at close range in my .45 Colt loads, 300 gr at 1100 fps at impact, good for mountain lions and deer. Heavier game is the expected target for heavier .44 Magnum bullets, so as fast as you can shoot them is perfectly all right. I shoot light for caliber .44 Magnum bullets for deer, factory Winchester 210 grain Silvertips at 1250 fps are great heart-lung medicine. I'd try some 210 grain soft point or Hollowpoint loads if they were accurate in your rifles. Any factory 240 grain bullets would open up at rifle velocities, but somewhat of a problem at pistol velocities. Fact is, you have the best of all possible worlds with the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt, if they expand good, if they don't still good as you have a large caliber to start with. My experience is split between hard cast bullets and "soft" hollowpoints in revolvers. The animals don't drop quite as quick with the cast loads, but I don't worry about presentation angle as much. Unobstructed heart-lung shots call for expanding bullets. Ask yourself if "any shot I get" is your hunting style, or are you more deliberate and can afford to wait for a better shot?
I seem to be setting on the fence about this bullet performace issue. Conventional bullets work best at conventional velocities, as in your .30-30, .44 Mag and .45 Colt loads, but how you hunt is an issue too. I think revolver velocities and ranges are great sport. The lever action guns offer more velocity and a bit more accuracy with iron sights, enjoy!

What Steelhead said -

and...

If you like "Ultra-mags" you'd better use "ultra-bullets" too - or you might be very dissappointed in what might happen - especially if the range is short.

If you use cartridges that have muzzle velocities from say, 2400 to say, 2900 fps - you have many many more good choices available.

Howie there have been some good replys here, no bullet has an optimum velocity expansion number, it is a range say 1,600 to 2,300fps within that range the bullet will perform like it was intended to.

I have used a 44mag in a win 94 and a ruger 99/44 (semi-auto) and i have settled on the Speer 270gr gold dot. Yes it is a little heavy but it should have complete penetration plus good expansion. Killed a spike buck with their factory load but hit him in the nose and knocked him out cold(he was in heavy brush and yes even a 44mag will be deflected by brush) so i didnt get a chance to see termimal performance.

Probably the best 44mag bullet is the Win/Nosler 250gr partition gold bullet. I used it on a 200lb black russian boar and its performance was very good. The bullet was recovered in the off side grisle shield and weighed 231grs. For smaller deer i would use the 240gr Hornady XTP.

I have wondered the same thing and got the info by writing the company that makes each bullet.