Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Does anyone here write for Guns and Ammo?

I guess this is a rant/warning, and I don't know if anyone here writes for Guns and Ammo, or if Guns and Ammo knows that one of their advertizers (Lawman Leather) has been just terrible with regards to actually following up on their obligations to deliver orders after taking the customer's money.

I am posting this out of desperation. I ordered a shoulder holster from them in Feb 2010, and they wanted payment up front, with a 20 week lead time. This seems to be their standard MO. And then they are very elusive when being called to check on you order, and finally they will promise 5 more weeks or give some other lame excuse, and 5 more weeks will pass then it's the same thing again.

It's now been over 60 weeks and they still have not delivered, and won't say when they will deliver, or if they commit at all it something vague like 2 weeks, 5 weeks, or I don't know, or you need to call back in the middle of the night to california, etc. And they refuse to refund your money, also.

And I am not the only one, just do a search on the internet. This seems to be the norm with them. I don't know why Guns and Ammo even lets them put their add in their magazine.

Are there any gun writers on here, that know anything about this, or happen to know anyone personally at Lawmen Leather, etc.?

I am sorry for the rant, but I have had a gut full.

Does anyone here still read guns and ammo any more? I haven't bought a copy since the late 90's.

Well, you may have a point there, but a lot of people do, and I am not bashing Guns and Ammo, I was just wondering if any gun writers on here might have some close assoiations with either company, maybe someone with some clout that could shake a tree or two.

No expert here, but as the magazine comes in the mail, and you probably sent them a check, it might be considered mail fraud. Both the USPS and the state BBB might be all ears.

Lastmohecken,

Hasve you contacted the GUNS & AMMO advertising department about this?

Believe me, gun writers have about zero pull with the advertising end of magazines, because editorial and advertising are two different departments.

I have written for G&S a few times over the past couple years, but would no more dream of calling then up because one of theier advertisers isn't following through than I'd consider running for president.

There are better ways to go about this, though contacting G&A's ad guys wouldn't hurt. I would suggest contacting the appropriate state or federal agencies that deal with consumer fraud.

Mule Deer, you may have a point, and I did a search at one time, and saw that Lawman Leather had an F rating with the BBB in Nevada. So, If that is the case, then I don't know if it will do any good for me to contact them as they already know. But I may contact Guns and Ammo as I saw their add in there and there was even mention of them in a new products review or something along that line.

There's a rather long thread on the S&W forum about this business.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/concealed-carry-self-defense/115086-lawman-leather-goods.html

Well, Since I can read the articles for free on the internet. Their advertisers are not importnat to me

Did you pay by check or credit card, and has either cleared your account? If ccc dispute the chg. If possible stop pymt on the check. If they have your check and cashed it, Have you asked to cancel the order and get your $$ back? I would write a basic letter with the facts and send it with delivery certification.

I paid by credit card, and when I contacted the credit card company they said I only had 3 months from purchase date to get my money back thru them, and it was 28 weeks before the holster was due, so Lawman Leather had that figured out, so I would be outside the time frame to get the credit card company to help, by the time I relized there was a problem.

Same for me.

Last Mohican,
I suffered the same treatment from a particular gun company that is still in business. They took my money, lost my gun, claimed their business burned to the ground, declared bankruptcy, moved with no forwarding information.....ad nauseum. I wrangled with them for 16 years off & on until last September when it dawned on me that as a licensed manufacturer they actually stole from me. After finding their web site I delivered an ultimatum with intent to notify the BATF & FBI. In 30 minutes I had a phone call & in 20 days my gun was in my hands.

I'm not saying you should alert these two authorities, I'm saying sometimes you just gotta click it into cruise control & not let 'em out of your sight. Keep your cool & keep on 'em.

"Keep your friends close & your enemies closer."
Vito Corleone

The editorial and advertising departments are totally separate; since the advertising department brings in the money, they have more pull than the editorial department (who pays the writers). Publishers just love the advertising department; they tolerate the editorial department as a necessary evil.

I'd probably ignore the two departments (one has little pull and the other just cares that the bill is paid) and go to the USPS or the FTC.

Just my opinion.

Lastmohecken,

Thanks for alerting us about this scumbag company. I hope you get resolution soon.

Have you thought about small claims? It doesn't cost you anything and it does work for these types of things. Yes it is a hassle taking time out of work and such but if you feel strongly enough about it, this is what the system was made for, not the frivolous crap most people use it for.

Wow! It's great that you eventually got your gun back!
I'm like you; I'd have been pizzed about that until the day I died.

Yes...

every issue

Demand an Immediate Refund...
You might send Lawman Leather a certified delivery letter stating that you have endured enough and you want your money returned via USPS Money Order within seven business days (being a prudent and normal duration for mail delivery) or you will alert all authorities and then pursue the issue as a criminal matter.

Get government(s) involved...RULE ONE...
The best way to get even with a creep is to give them a gift they would hate to receive. Therefore, shine the brightest light on them you can to create a government nightmare, as your gift. They will likely be all too happy to rid themselves of you. Your efforts will require a few phone calls and a few face-to-face interactions as the victim.

Go after any required Business License(s)...
If they are doing business that requires a business license or bonding to operate; e.g. city license, State Department of Commerce, etc. I would direct attention to whoever is granting them a license or authority to operate with the public. Complaints can have results, especially if you can show a pattern of bad conduct. In most cities and states, licensed businesses are required to carry liability insurance, which includes �failure to perform� coverage. In my state businesses have to be bonded, too (you can place a claim against their bond). After several complaints they are run out of business.

Involve the USPS...
I would also contact the U.S. Postal Service authorities and detail the problem along with concerns about nationwide victimization. It is up to them what they will pursue, but you can show you made the effort, if the matter proceeds to a legal remedy.

Local Authorities...
You might want to discuss the matter with your local police authorities (city & county) and file a fraud/bunko complaint against Lawman Leather (doing business in Vegas). It is possible for your local authorities to contact Vegas authorities to investigate the criminal nature of your complaint. This might be enough of a poison pill to finish it.

State Attorney General(s)...
Your state�s Attorney General�s office is another good place to call for help about Lawman Leather conducting illicit activates in your state; these are matters considered wrong or unacceptable by prevailing social customs or standards. You�re state attorney general�s office can contact Nevada�s Attorney General to investigate, too. Your state may have an already appointed agency commissioner that handles interstate fraud.

The I.R.S....
Contact the Internal Revenue Service (you probably have local office) and point out the scope of the revenue being scammed by Lawman Leather. File a claim for any reward due to you for uncovering illicit tax evasion.

The U.S. Department of Commerce...
Contact the consumer affairs division and register a complaint.

Hang in there...
The people in government serving you can�t do a good job for you if you don�t let them know what you need assistance with.

You�ll discover they are human (in most cases, behind the voice mail) and they would hate the exact same treatment. In the case of your local police, they will have genuine empathy for your plight, as they are holster owners, too.

Good luck, and be a BEE in their bonnet.

You also need to remember to never piss off Stoneman!!!

I think I'd have another go at the credit card company on the grounds that there hasn't been a purchase yet, just a payment. It's not a purchase until you get the merchandise - the clock ain't even running yet on their 3 months!