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Joined: Sep 2007
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OP
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Looks like Gold Rings have been discontinued. They didn't seem to be in production that long, any idea why they stopped making them? Any word if they are being replaced/upgraded?
Thanks for all the responses.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 459
Campfire Member
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Here is a question, what do you guys consider "alpha glass"? Is it still "alpha glass" for example if it says "XYZ optics, Germany" But the product is actually made in China or Portugal? Keep in mind if it does not have the words "MADE IN" stamped or placed with a sticker or label don't assume it is made in the country it was shipped out from.
Does it have to actually be made in the country the company HQ is located to be Alpha glass or just over a certain price point? If so what is that price point?
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Regular
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I've had both ZEN ED and ED 2 and the Promaster ELX ED since they were first available for purchase. I've had no problems and that includes some purposeful "dunk 'em in the water trough for 5 minutes and let them hang on the fence overnight" tests, They were frozen solid in the morning and never failed. They are as well built as anything in their price range. The Promaster has been my main truck binocular (it's in there 24/7/365)for almost three years.
Steve
Theodore Roosevelt: "Do what you can where you are with what you have"
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 30
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 30 |
schmalts,
As a matter of fact, if it doesn't have the words "MADE IN..." then it wasn't. Some optics these days just list the country where the company is headquartered, other might say "From ...". Both are sure indicators that they aren't made there.
Many companies are engineering optics in-house and then subcontracting either many parts or the entire optic to some other company.
This has been going on for a while now, and one of the European firms that many would call at least a "sub-alpha" started getting it's binoculars made in Japan maybe half-a-dozen years ago. Since then they haven't been marked "MADE IN..." but they still do have the name of the country where the company is headquartered, and no mention of Japan.
There are two really funny things about all this: People who buy them still brag about their Euro-glass, and when the change was made to Japan the optics got slightly but definitely BETTER.
Zeiss is having one of their spotting scopes (the new Dialyt Spotter) made in Japan to Zeiss specifications, but freely admits it. And it is VERY good, as you might expect, but costs considerably less than any other Zeiss spotter.
Minox has been engineering their stuff in Germany and getting it made elsewhere for many years, but the latest APO-HG binoculars are being made in Germany, and they are very good. Unfortunately they also cost almost as much as "alpha" glass.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2009
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dont think for yourself, just follow the guru JB and his minion's.......you will be happy.....or full of bleep.
check them out for yourself outside of the store or outside of paid bias here.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 459
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
schmalts,
As a matter of fact, if it doesn't have the words "MADE IN..." then it wasn't. Some optics these days just list the country where the company is headquartered, other might say "From ...". Both are sure indicators that they aren't made there.
Many companies are engineering optics in-house and then subcontracting either many parts or the entire optic to some other company.
This has been going on for a while now, and one of the European firms that many would call at least a "sub-alpha" started getting it's binoculars made in Japan maybe half-a-dozen years ago. Since then they haven't been marked "MADE IN..." but they still do have the name of the country where the company is headquartered, and no mention of Japan.
There are two really funny things about all this: People who buy them still brag about their Euro-glass, and when the change was made to Japan the optics got slightly but definitely BETTER.
Zeiss is having one of their spotting scopes (the new Dialyt Spotter) made in Japan to Zeiss specifications, but freely admits it. And it is VERY good, as you might expect, but costs considerably less than any other Zeiss spotter.
Minox has been engineering their stuff in Germany and getting it made elsewhere for many years, but the latest APO-HG binoculars are being made in Germany, and they are very good. Unfortunately they also cost almost as much as "alpha" glass.
John, yes I know this, and why I brought it up. And BTW, even some of the Geman HQ companies are dealing heavy with China, and that doesnt make the quality bad at all, just a little confusing to many who buy it thinking they are getting something made elsewhere. So the question is still this, What is "alpha glass" to most here?
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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for the record, i REALLY like made in japan !
be it optics or rifles...dont know if the manufactures of either got nailed in the earthquake and aftermath issues, but i would guess if they did and have to start over they will do so with cutting edge tech. that will set new standards
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Campfire Greenhorn
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schmalts,
Many companies are engineering optics in-house and then subcontracting either many parts or the entire optic to some other company.
This CAN be a problem, How do you now that a brand is making optics at the same factory next year? And will the quality be at the same level? One example: Tasco had an OK (not excellent) reputation some years ago, but most people would now say they are not at the same quality level as they used to be. Zeiss (except for Conquest) and Swarovski make their binoculars in Germany and Austria in their own factorys. Of course they buy some parts from others. I'am not 100% sure about Leica , but they have been manufacturing some compact models in Portugal. I have no doubts about optics made at LOW in Japan, but China? Well, China optics can be fine one year but next year? Who knows?
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,666 Likes: 6 |
I had the opposite experience about 10 years ago.I am sure that you did.
But part of the problem was the fact that his Swarovski 10x42 SLC weren't quite as good as my Pentax 10x50 DPS WP. REALLY !!!!!!!!!!!
to claim that"alpha" binoculars are superior to anything else anymore is simply misleading. WOW !!!!!!!! John..........I know that you dont like me because I am honest and disagree with your bias viewpoints but to say that I am misleading is funny. You try to lead people to make money for you and have an influence to make more money for you. and you call me misleading!!!!!!!!!!!! you are a P.O.F. that get's away with what he want's on this forum because it is all allowed and you have 19000 more post's ![[Linked Image]](http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp83/skane_image/kermit.jpg) What the? I find JB's LACK of bias toward many things refreshing. He may have some preferences but who in the heck doesn't? You're a keyboard commando with internet anonymity that likely struts like a tom when he can tell a pard over a brew that "he got into with JB on the internet."
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,297 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,297 Likes: 17 |
dont think for yourself, just follow the guru JB and his minion's.......you will be happy.....or full of bleep.
check them out for yourself outside of the store or outside of paid bias here. If you're talking to me, I'm no person's minion. I happen to like MD's candor, and lack of bias, and his willingness to state his honest opinions no matter what people think is refreshing, to me at least. I don't necessarily agree with him all the time (who does?), but I like it when a person, any person, states what he likes and why he likes it, not just regurgitating what they've read or heard. If anyone has an open mind at all, and has spent time in the field with lots of different binos lately (luckily I have in the past 2 years), they'd be enlightened by how good "non alphas" are. In fact, Z,L,& Swaro ought to be really nervous....China optics are coming on and coming on strong and fast, they do it cheap, and they'er getting better and better at it every year. I'll screw your alpha world up one more time rockchucker.....I had a guy come shoot hogs with Carson XM HD 10x42's, that probably cost $200 or so. Excellent view, pretty good construction, no clue about the company itself.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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And, we've no even mentioned the 6x30 Yo's as of yet...  Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,297 Likes: 17 |
And, we've no even mentioned the 6x30 Yo's as of yet... Dober I've never used one, but can't deny the great things I hear about them. If I showed up in camp with a pair of those girly Yo's, you know the pink ones like you have, I'd get my azz kicked! 
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Nov 2009
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From what I have seen and read, it seems that a slight gain in optical quality comes at great cost, what if any other factors "sold" you on Leica, Zeiss, or Swaro.? I ask because I'm considering such a purchase and would like to know what others believe the extra money is buying. Bought my 8X30 SLC's for around 400.00 almost new from a Pawn Shop. Wouldn't have paid full price for them.
"If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?"
Vince Lombardi
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Joined: Mar 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
Rockchck828, you are way out of line.
The only thing you got right is that you can test binoculars yourself.
The rest of it is BS. For one thing, I have found JB test procedures and his understanding to how optics work priceless. Do you know how to stack binoculars for testing ? Do you understand why it is a good idea to test that way ?
About taking a potential binocular outside a store and testing, that can also lead to misconceptions. For one, you'll need another along anyway to do a comparison. For another, light can vary alot during a day, and from day to day. Particularly with cheap optics, this can make a real difference.
That's just for starters.
I've always found JB's comments most helpful because he understands things like how to do unbiased testing. His example of using multiple testers proves that right there.
You owe him an apology. E
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I'm in the market for binos and a spotting scope. Looking at the Swaro EL 10x42 & Leica 10X42/Swaro ATM 65HD & Leica comparable. Im curious how this stacking test works. I have a Demo set of Kahles and a Zeiss 85mm with tripod all the works Im trying to sell to get Swaro or Leica. Like everyone else spending this amount of $$$ I want the best bang for the BUCK(pun intended). Any and all info needed to make the best buy.
Thanx
Last edited by coonass; 05/04/11.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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coonass, it's none of my business, but if you're in the market for a primo 85mm class spotter you owe yourself a test drive of the Kowa Prominar 883/884 depending on if you like angled or straight eyepieces. I can tell you for certain it's better than the previous Zeiss 85 T FL as I've looked through them side by side many times. It's really evident at higher mags and at the edges.....Kowa is crystal clear to the edge. In every spotter test I've ever seen these Kowa's are the tops, with the swaro HD's close but no cigar. From what I've seen the Zeiss and Swaro's newest offerings are around $2700-$3000 with eyepiece. I bought my Kowa brand new for $2300 last fall. The Nikon 82Ed offers a great bang for the buck at around $1100 or so, but isn't in the class of the Kowa either (I had one). Great spotter though. If you're into 65mm class spotters the Kowa Prominar 663/664 is within a natsazz of the Swaro 65HD for half the price. Kowa does spotters better than anyone IMO. Have fun with it though.
Last edited by JGRaider; 05/04/11.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Thanx JG, Ive noticed quite a few posts on Kowa but really never factored them with the Swaro's of today. I m interested in the 65mm spotters and will definetly have a look through a Kowa. Any idea what the stacking test method is all about?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Take a tripod with a flat top mount, stack one bino on top of another (secured by a strap) so that you can go back and forth between the two while viewing the same object/landscape. The object is a steady mount, hands free to eliminate any handshake.
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I'm in the market for binos and a spotting scope. Looking at the Swaro EL 10x42 & Leica 10X42/Swaro ATM 65HD & Leica comparable. Im curious how this stacking test works. I have a Demo set of Kahles and a Zeiss 85mm with tripod all the works Im trying to sell to get Swaro or Leica. Like everyone else spending this amount of $$$ I want the best bang for the BUCK(pun intended). Any and all info needed to make the best buy.
Thanx Coon: Are you thinking new or preowned? Both of your choices are top rate and personal preference will be to get the best choice for your eyes. The best buy, if considering used should consider warranty, Swarovski is often highly rated even for preowned, they will take care of you. Leica warranty does not transfer on preowned, so that is an important distinction. Good luck in your optics search.
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The idea behind stacking is OK, but it works a lot better to have the optics side by side on tripods, both centered and focused on the same image. Stacking one on top of anothger works, but it is harder to get them both right on the same target, particularly if the binoculars are different in length.
The idea is you get a mental image of one glass and smoothly and rapidly shift to the other optic and you can get a sort of flash card comparison of the images. In other words you still have memory of the first image when you look at the second one.
Steve
Theodore Roosevelt: "Do what you can where you are with what you have"
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