Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting What do you want in a deer bullet?

I posted part of this in another thread and it got me to thinking. I know this has been hashed out before, but why not revisit it? What is your Philosophy in deer bullets, are you a penetration, no weight loss, or like I am a relatively quick expansion some weight loss is acceptable person? I guess "we pays our money and takes our choices." I shoot non mags from 6.5-30-06. usualy around 240-260SD I don't take running, extreme angle or THS except at wounded game. I don't need a bullet that wil penetrate more than about 15-18". I pretty much believe in the Nosler philosophy that all of those little pieces that are 'lost' are actually shrapnel doing what theyy are suppose to be doing. They are doing internal damage and killing the animal. Just my $.02, capt david
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I used to want a big mushroom and for the bullet to expand violently inside the animal. As I grew up shooting a .243 Win. at deer (starting at age 8), using Remington CL Factory ammo, that seemed to work very well. Never had a deer go further than a few steps!

After that rifle (a Rem. 660 carbine) got burned up in a fire at the gunsmiths (Dad was getting a trigger job done on it, I think), I used a custom .308 I got for HS Graduation present. Nosler solid base 150s blew through deer with little expansion I had to follow them, but at least there was a blood trail.

Later, after that rifle got stolen, I began to use a Ruger #1A in 7x57. 154 and 162 grain hornady boattails (these were the old one, 20-25 years ago) expanded AND never failed to completely penetrate any deer I ever shot at any range.

That changed my mind about full penetration vs. a bullet staying in the deer.

Now I use Nosler partitions for the most part. They expand and make a wound channel, but also fully penetrate. Even the big 175 grainers expand in deer, make an impressive wound channel, and if they hit bone, don't disentegrate, but keep going. I've seen them punch through a rib going in and a rib going out, make pudding of the chest cavity, and exit.

Plus, I can use them on elk and moose too, no need to work up different loads or resight my 7x57!

Regards,
Ben Reinhardt

I like mid weight-for-caliber bullets from .257 to .358 cals.
They need to work well at my target MV of 2600-2800 fps. BC isn't very important because I seldom shoot past 200 yards. I prefer full penetration, but not at the expense of a small diameter wound channel.

What do I want IN a deer bullet?

A metal malleable enough to expand, but solid and tough enough to hang together down the bore and to the target, preferably a lead and/or copper alloy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, couldn't resist.

What results do I need in a deer bullet?

1) Adequate accuracy and precision to insure that (if I do my part) that the round will strike POA (or reasonably close thereto) out at least 300 feet;
2) expansion to at least 1.25 times the diameter of the original, unexpanded projectile;
3) penetration of at least 12" though live tissue, including hide, muscle, bone, sinew, and organs.

Those three things are the minimum. More than that is always sought for and welcomed, less is unacceptable. Of course, the above requirements cover every thing from .45 caliber roundballs to the .700 Nitro, and just about anything in between.

What requirements and results do I WANT from a deer bullet?

1) Adequate accuracy and precision to insure that (if I do my part) that the round will strike POA (or reasonably close thereto) out at least 300 YARDS;
2) expansion to at least 1.5 times the diameter of the original, unexpanded projectile at ranges between 10 and 300 yards; and
3) penetration of at least 18" though live tissue, including hide, muscle, bone, sinew, and organs at ranges between 10 and 300 yards.

And, I'd prefer no less than .25 caliber in the original projectile, projectile weights of at least 100 gr., a muzzle velocity of at least 2000 fps; a muzzle energy of at least 1,200 ft.lbs., muzzle momentum of the projectile of at least 40, and a muzzle TKO of at least 10.

Which for me means that the minimum caliber that I would choose for deer hunting would be the .250 Savage with factory 100 gr. bullets at about 2800 fps. Not a bad minimum.

My ideal deer round would have a trajectory flat enough to allow for an MPBR of at least 300 yards, deliver a projectile that will still retain the expansion and penetration characteristics above, and with least 1,200 ft.lbs. of energy, 30 lbs.ft. of momentum, and retain at least a TKO of 8 at that range (300 yards), AND do this with no more than 20 ft.lbs. of recoil energy in an 8 lbs. rifle.

Which places the ideal somewhere between the .257 Roberts( +P) and .30-06 class, including all the standards between those two. Take your choice of any caliber in that range, stoke it with a good bullet (minimum being about the Remington Core-Lokt), and go hunting.

I've spent most of my life living with cheap bullets and cheap ammo on deer and not had much of a problem. Most of my time has been spent with Remington 12 Ga sluggers and Walmart special 180 grain 30-06. I hunt dense cedars and Eastern hardwoods, and I hunt at very close range. I started out life as a bowhunter, and most of my deer hunting sensibilities lie in that sort of hunting. If I do not get within 80 yards of the deer, I am doing something wrong.

Since I took up handloading a few years ago, I've switched to mostly moderate loads. That was due partly to cost and partly to the vast reduction in recoil.

What I want is an inexpensive bullet that will do the job. I don't want pencilling, and I do not want a rib-grenade. I want a bullet that will be inexpensive to shoot regularly.

Anything that comes close to Wally World specials like the plain old Remington Green-Box is fine by me. Most of my handloads use Hornady Interlok, but I'm trying out some Winchester Power Points this year in the son's 30-30 to try and aleave a problem he's been having with lost deer.

Deer are not all that hard to kill.

A good quick, clean kill without destrying too much meat. The performance of 100gr Core-Lokts in my .243 is perfect.

If I can rephrase the question just a little, "What do you want to happen when you shoot a deer?"

Well for me, I want the deer to die as quickly as possible. In fact I want them to fall dead right where thay are standing. And I don't want to ruin much meat if I can avoid doing so.

I have killed a lot of deer over the past 30 years with a lot of different bullets and cartridges ranging from the .17 Remington to the 7mm Rem Mag. I prefer the bang-flop results I get from Nosler Ballistic Tips and Sierra GameKings. I load the following bullet / cartridge combinations for deer hunting.

220 Swift = 63 grain Sierra Varminter
243 Win. = 95 grain Ballistic tip
25-06 = 100 grain Sierra GameKing
270 Win = 130 grain Ballistic Tip
7 Rem Mag = 140 grain Ballistic Tip (the 120 grain is too hard)

Notice that the 22 and 24 caliber choices lean toward the heavy side for their caliber and the larger calibers lean toward the lighter side of their respective bullet choices.

I have only recovered two of those bullets from deer; one from the 220 Swift and one from the 243. Both were taken from large bucks after quartering shots to the body. Lack of penetration has never been a problem. The only deer that did not fall in their tracks were recovered dead within 20 yards of where they were shot and those were already running when I shot them. Since I process all my deer myself I know what the bullet did or did not do on it's trip through the critter.

All I know is what works for me.......

Pretty much got used to deer dropping where they stood or trotted, a long time ago. Still seems to work pretty well.

Have killed deer with 100, 117 and 120gr Sierra bullets from several 25-06s, switched to 100gr Btips when they came out, ain't never gonna switch again.

Have killed deer with 150 and 165gr Speer bullets from assorted 30-06s, kinda partial to the 165gr Btip now in the only '06 I have left (03A1).

Have killed deer with 200gr HPs from the Marlin 444 and a M629 S&W. Hornady XTPs are the current bullet of choice in that size and weight, although I sold the 444 last fall.

In the 8x57s, anything from the 125gr Hornadys I use now, to Remington Core-Lokts and 150gr Sierras and Speers. Just about my favorite deer cartridge, except maybe for the 25-06.

32 Special M94 has dropped a few with Remington and WW factory loads over 30 years ago, plus several more with 170gr Hornady FPs in the past 18 years.

Have taken a couple with an old Marlin carbine in 35 Rem. with 200gr Core-Lokts and a couple more with the 22-250 and the Nosler 60gr Partitions.

Regardless of the arm or the bullet selection, all pretty much did the job if I did my part and put the bullet where it belonged. That's about all anyone can ask of a bullet.
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a fast expanding bullet at somewhat reduced velocities to avoid red misting my venison.....
sounds like a job for the .250 or .300 savage...maybe one of the mauser military rounds... 6.5,7, or 8mm, the 30-30 comes to mind, along with the 30-40....
velocity, in my mind, should top out at 2800 for deer under 200 yds...
fast movers like the .308, and 30-06 should be loaded with heavier bullets to keep speed down.....

i look at what i just typed and i wonder where the guy that i used to be wound up..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />... john w

Same thing I want in my elk bullets, because they are one in the same. Fast but controlled expansion, high weight retention, deep penetration (preferably an exit).

After seeing how a 350g North Fork from my .45-70 performed two seasons ago, I switched to the 160g for my 7mm Mag and 180g for the .300 Win Mag. They don't make one for the .257 Roberts so I'm considering A-Frame or Trophy Bonded.

Here in south Louisiana, the deer run smaller than elsewhere and the shots are usually close in, so our needs are probably less demanding than other folks' needs. Like everyone else, I want a magic bullet that shoots flat, out to about 800 yds. explodes on impact, retains 99% of its' weight, stops under the skin on the offside at any angle, and drops 'em where they standwith no meat loss. Until they start mass-producing this bullet, however, I'll settle for one that gives good expansion if it has 2500+ fps velocity and at least 1000 ft-lbs. of energy at the point of impact. The Ballistic Silvertips and SST's are designed to give good performance at the velocities. I've had good luck with both. I feel that shot placement is much more important than bullet performance, but the bullet has its' job to do, also.

What do I want from a deer bullet?

I want a bullet that will expand on a whitetail at 300 yards but not explode on his ribs at 40 yards. (ballistic tips)

I want a bullet that is tough enough to allow me to take an angled shot but no so tough that a broadside ribs only shot leaves two holes of the same diameter. (X Bullets)

I want a bullet that will expand enough to kill him quickly if I shoot him behind the shoulder but tough enough to drive through to the vitals if I have to shoot him in the shoulder.

Fortunately just such a creature exists. It's called a good old fashioned lead tipped bullet. Cor-Lokt, Power Point, Hornady Interlock, etc, etc...... From 0 to 300 yards there still isn't a better all around bullet for deer.

I'll take 180 grain core-lokt they aren't the best bullet but they expand good and have enough weight and thick enough jacket to get through any bones on a whitetail I have shot bucks that dressed over 200 and shot through both shoulders and got an exit but I've also shot little does through the lungs and got a bigger exit then the entrance they work great for me.

I want a bang-flop, ergo I want a ballistic tip. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />