Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Just 1 bullet for the 308 Win and elk sized game....

Flinch- Sorry I didn't notice your response to me yesterday, till now.

You & I have observed the same thing re 06/308 ammo.

I agree w/your recommend for non hand loaders toward the 308.

Re: answer to Dober @ factory ammo. Things have changed in past yrs.
Back when I chronod factory ammo more, a long time ago Federal was
much closer to adv. velocity.

Based on my past experience I'm SURPRISED to hear Rem is close to claimed vel.

I'm not arguing, just noticing new developments.

Excuse typing from my phone.

Edited from home p c.

I recently chrony'd 150 gr Rem Corelokts factory in my 308 tikka (20 in bbl) and velocity was 2730'ish. Out of my 19 inch bbl 7600 308 the same rounds were running 2630'ish. My 7600 30-06 18.5 inch bbl shoots rem 150 factories at 2650 fps. I was shocked to say the least. I use my chrono and factory loads to compare the velocities to my handloads.

A few notes on the recent posts:

When I first started loading in the mid-1960's the first manual I bought was the #6 Speer. It had a list of factory loads they'd chronographed, and at that time Federal ammo did generally get more velocity than Remington or Winchester, though there were some exceptions. (Some people suggested that this was because Federal didn't make rifles as well as ammo....)

When affordable chronographs started becoming more available in the 1980's, many shooters discovered just how anemic some factory ammo could be. I found, for instance, that Remington .270 ammo with 130 Core-Lokts got under 2700 fps from the 22" barrel of my wife's rifle. When shooters started complaining, the factories started loading ammo closer to specs.

However, I would bet that since then the factories have noticed that the vast majority of people who buy factory ammo don't own chronographs. (In fact, I am constantly astounded by how many handloaders don't, but that's another subject.)

When the 7mm Remington Magnum was introduced, Remington factory ammo was loaded with IMR7828, a powder DuPont developed specifically for the cartridge. The ammo was really stout listed at over 3000 fps for the 175-grain bullet, though that was from a 26" barrel--and according to Speer, got there.

Eventually, as piezo pressure equipment became more commonly used in the industry, it was found that the 7mm RM produced wider velocity and pressure variations than most other rounds, something not all that apparent with the copper-crusher equipment used to develop the round. Consequently SAAMI reduced the maxiumum average pressure a few thousand PSI, but even that reduction doesn't account for some of today's wimpy 7mm RM factory ammo.

On the other hand, a friend of mine started loading the 7mm RM long before he or any of his friends owned a chronograph, using 160-grain bullets and a powder charge that the bullet-maker's manual said would get around 3000 fps. He used the load for years, killing lots of deer, black bear and elk. They all dropped nicely, and he was very pleased with his 7mm bolt of lightning.

Then he bought his fist chronograph, and found the load was getting around 2700 fps, about what's possible from a warmly loaded 7x57. Of course, he had to change the load.

The point could either be that a chronograph is the only way to know the real speed of our ammo, or that the 7x57 really is the finest 7mm ever invented. Maybe Ingwe can enlighten us further on that point.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that the seething masses cannot be enlightened to the merits of the consummate, ultimate cartridge....

Or to ice in whiskey....

I concur on the 7RM point. Used the 7mag for over 10 years, always handloaded. Got a Chronograph and tried a factory Rem core-lockt in the green and yellow box and with the 175gr bullet it went 2730fps, my wifes 280 with 175gr Hornaday handloads runs 2680fps with 51.5gr of IMR 4350.
The 7mag is long gone but today we load 54gr of R-22 with a 160gr AccuBond at 2800fps..........a nice load for the 280.

Thanks Mule Deer. One other note, my 7600 carbine 06 shoots winchester 180 gr power point factory loads at around 2600-2625 fps. An entirely reasonable velocity out of an 18.5 in bbl.

Yep, that's about right in a short barrel. The bullets should work perfectly at that speed!

Sweet Geezus is nothin' sacred!

Ingwe I caught you taking JB's statement out of context....tsk, tsk....I know friendcship permits literary license but geez that is so unfair......LOL!

There is not a bad one in the 7mm bunch and I luv them all....but with deference to the worthy opinions expressed herein...gimme my chronograph,a few pounds of RL25 or H1000...and I'll boot the 7 Mag gently in the arse for 3000-3100 with a 160 and be happy....but dats just me

I would imagine that putting ice in whiskey, like not getting full velocity from one's handloads, is far more common than internet banter would lead us to believe.

Edited to add: I say that as a 7x57 owner who did put ice in his Famous Grouse recently...

Figures,

you either is class or you ain't.

If you ain't, nothing helps - not even owning a 7x57.

Appears the philistines are taking over the marketing dep. for the destilleries anyways -

http://www.thefamousgrouse.com/behind-the-label/serving-suggestions

Such goings on - anything to make a sale...

Fascinating the way these threads sometimes veer off course to factory ammo, whiskey, and ladies....

JB if you are still around, do you care to weigh in on my initial question? What 308 Win. bullets do you like?

The .308 is one of the mid-velocity rounds that works very well on a wide variety of game with just about any big game bullet on the market. I tend to prefer premium 150's in the .308, but with standard cup-and-cores I might choose a 165, just because it's going a little slower and has a little more mass. There's also nothing wrong with a 180 at 2650 or so, since it pretty much duplicates the .30-06 load that's been killing big game reliably since the 1920's. (Before then the 180-grain .30-06 load got more like 2500 fps--and also worked very well.)

My present .308 is a Merkel single-shot, and the only load I've used from it is the 150-grain Nosler AccuBond and 46.5 grains of Varget for right at 2900 fps in the Merkel's 24" barrel. So far it has accounted for game from 40 to 400 pounds with no problems.

On her last safari my wife used the 150-grain Nosler E-Tip with the same powder charge, for about 2800 fps from the 21" barrel of her custom Serengeti .308. It worked extremely well on a pile of animals from pronghorn-sized springbok to elk-sized zebra. But she has also used the 150-grain Remington Core-Lokt Ultra and Nosler Partition to take North American game in the 300-pound range, and both worked fine. In fact the 150 Partition broke both shoulders of a big Texas pig and exited, dropping the pig right there.

Thanks. I appreciate the answer.

I've got some 150 Horn BTSP and 150 TTSX's loaded waiting for the rifle to be finished I was going to try the 150/165 Partitions next if needed. Reading these forums can make choosing a bullet seem tougher than choosing a spouse.....It seems a lot of the 30 cal bullets will get it done at mid velocity.

Yep.

It also isn't a bad idea to find two bullets, one softer and more affordable, and one costlier and tougher, and see if they will shoot together with the same load. You can then use the more affordable one for sighting-in, practice and hunting deer-sized game, and the other for those special occasions when something bigger is the primary game. The Hornady and TTSX would be pretty good in those roles.

Thanks, that was exactly what I had in mind for these two selections. Hopefully, accuracy will be there and they will have a similar POI. It will be interesting, as the TTSX is almost twice as long as the BTSP.

I like the 150 grain Hornaday flat base spire points for just about everything. I did shoot an elk last year at 350 yards with the 150 grain Barnes TTSX in the front shoulder. It performed perfectly. I don't shoot a lot of premiums in the slower rounds, but this one really surprised me. The bullet definitely expanded, crunched bone and exited. The big cow elk went a few yards and tipped over on her nose. Flinch

djb et al: What you are about to hear is AS earth shattering as the Grand Canyon closing its chasm.

For 40 PLUS yrs I NEVER considered the 308 Win & Elk hunting in the same THOUGHT much less a discussion.

I guess I've been a victim of 'publicity' or HYPE. I haven't owned any 308 W for many yrs. I am NOT enamored by 'short actions'. They just don't do anything for me, I don't have any problem with LONG ACTIONS. Even today the only s a I have is a 6mm & 243 W.

I am PROVING that I can have an open mind. I have learned and admit that a 308 is an ELK ADEQUATE cartridge even past short range. That's quite a statement from me, from where I've been.

Now I'm not looking for a 308 SINCE I already own 7 Mags,06, 300 Win. & 8mm RM.

From this thread & others, I've learned form EXPERIENCED hunters, that even tho Elk are BIG, they aren't BULLET PROOF.

Now, I have quit using the 6mm's for deer because I WANT a larger hole, IN & OUT. The 6mm's definitely are good deer killers, but WHERE I HUNT a deer can be terribly hard,if not IMPOSSIBLE, to find without a good blood trail.

Back to 308 & Elk. 30 Cal isn't a small hole and there is enough terminal damage to destroy the VITAL organs. Also we have SEVERAL terrific bullets to choose from that will do good jobs for the intended purposes.

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU from this thread & others here and the Elk Hunting forum.

"When affordable chronographs started becoming more available in the 1980's, many shooters discovered just how anemic some factory ammo could be. I found, for instance, that Remington .270 ammo with 130 Core-Lokts got under 2700 fps from the 22" barrel of my wife's rifle. When shooters started complaining, the factories started loading ammo closer to specs."

My buddy got three boxes of the above ammo from his grandfather. We chronographed it and it averaged 2,670 fps. from his 22" barreled .270. I thought my chronograph was busted. We burned up a whole box of it, trying to get the chrono to read right...lol, but it kept reading very close to the same velocity. I tried a different chrono and got the same reading. Needless to say, we shot it at rabbits. That was the slowest factory ammo I have ever shot. I had forgotten about that experience until you brought it up. Flinch

Chrono's and LRF's have modified what we believe just a bit. One of my mentors in life and bestest friends likes to say he used to make a ton of 400 yd shots and thought his rig was shooting flatter than it was supposed to till he got a LRF and figured out that his 400 yarders were 250 yarders..grin

I won't even begin to tell you my GPS story...

Dober

Let me guess....your friend said he packed his elk 8 miles one way? It was really about 3/4th of a mile. Kind of like a lot of people on here claim

Either that or you got lost 300 yards from your truck Flinch