Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a 600 yard Elk cartridge?

dms: Not to disparage,but don't you think you're splitting the hairs kinda fine here?

I mean,let's face it.....when the State of NY offers you a seperate ML tag, they are "merchandising" something and the "killing" is part of it....Nosler, leupold, Ruger, Hornady, Swaro.....all of them,have promotional efforts in TV shows, magazine adds,gunwriter reviews,etc in which people are hunting and using their products in a demonstrable fashion to merchandise their wares and demonstrate their value to hunters....I have no doubt these folks are actually "hunting",and those animals are killed with the sale of certain products being the consequence.

I really fail to see how GB Precision and Wayne VZ somehow sunk to new levels of moral depravation because they killed the elk at 600 yards;demonstrating what a GB rifle and a 6.5 CM were capable of in skilled hands(?).....would it have been "OK" if WVZ had shot it at 200 yards instead?

I notice you shoot moving game....nothing wrong with that, if a guy knows how.Hitting moving game is a skill set just like LR shooting;it must be tempered by knowing when to hold off,and is as much a part of the reality of hunting eastern thickets as LR shooting is in the more open terrain of the West.

In that regard, it is much the same with LR shooting.....there are those skilled at it...and those who aren't due to inclination, lack of opportunity,etc,but the best of them understand what they are doing...and are good enough at it that they fully understand when "not" to do it.

14 year olds can marry in NY?

You are dealing with ethics in your head. Ethics are different for everyone. Legality has to be followed by everyone. BIG difference there.

My ethics may say you are a slob because you don't use a handmade bow and shoot instinctively like I do. But I long ago realized I was wrong. And therefore as long as no laws are broken....
BTW I 'm not even close to seeing how that can be a slob hunter. Easy chip shot for those that shoot. Bang. Dead. Big deal.

DMS you must be a slob hunter sitting in your tree stand waiting for a driven deer to come so close you cant miss. Why a real hunter would lung out of that stand with knife clenched in teeth bulldog that 10 point and slit his neck bleeding him out and not ruined a oz of meat. Yeeeee Hawwww
Maybe you should come out west and try to sneak on deer or elk on the flat land or real mountians. It can be done but takes a whole lot more hunting skill than sitting on your can in a tree stand you bought at wally world be a man and climb that tree and sit on a limb. My point is don't through stones if you live in a glass house. I respect all methods of hunting and each to there own method as long as they are legal and safe.

I don�t really care that Wayne took the shot, I might have done the same myself under similar circumstances. In spite of Wayne�s claims that �closer wasn't an option in this case �, however, repeated viewing of the video fails to provide adequate clues as to why this was the case as there were certainly a plentitude of trees and sage for cover.

While Wayne might have been able to get closer, the problem might well have been to drag along the 3-4 people accompanying him without spooking the elk. Given what is visible in the video, I can�t shake the feeling that the decision to take the shot at 600 yards was made primarily for the sake of the video, its promotional value and the stories that could be written about the experience. One has to ask - isn�t that what they were all there for?

Perhaps Wayne has physical issues at the time that prevented his getting closer? I�ve been there and could understand that reason. Perhaps there was a concern that a suitable shooing position would not be available closer in, although that seems unlikely. I can also understand the promotional value of a 600 yard shot versus a shot at 200-300 yards and can�t help but think the difference was the major factor in the decision making.

John Burns or Wayne, you were there � tell me I�m wrong. Why wasn�t it possible to get closer?

I have to agree with Coyote Hunter. It looks to me like they could of gotten closer. Growing up, we used to shoot at targets long range, and shoot a lot, so that you were ready for any shot available. That being said, I was always taught to get as close as possible, because the further away you are, the more that can go wrong, such as the animal taking a step as you squeeze off the shot, a gust of wind, another animal moving in the way, etc.
So obviously Wayne was comfortable with the shot and made a good shot, but it looks like he could of gotten a lot closer and eliminated a few more variables in the shot.

I've probably killed more deer still-hunting than stand hunting. Hunting on a stand doesn't mean you're having animals driven to you. I can and have killed deer and other critters in numerous fashions. Drives, stand hunting, spot-n-stalk, still-hunting, in the rain, in the snow, hot weather, cold weather, frozen ground, dry ground. Killing Shots have been from 20feet to over 250yds [offhand].

Maybe that's why I've filled my freezer every year except one since 1984 and only lost 2 deer in all that time.

Again, I'll greedily give up a few yards in favour of a better and more steady shooting position. Perhaps this was a factor here...

I wonder how many guys have tried those long shots(600+) and found out because of unseen winds or this or that,it didn't work and crippled or lost there animal?

We will never here those tales,will we?

Jayco

Well LOGCUTTER, I am one of those 650 yard shooters! Yep, I tried hitting an elk once back in 1962 with a .270 Winchester. Never had a range finder, just going off the land marks. I used a straight 6 x 40 Weaver scope in those days. My rifle was zeroed in at 200 yards dead on the bullseye. I was using the 130 grain bullet.

I didn't know squat about ballistics either! I figured if I aimed somewhere about 2 feet over him I would nail it smack dab in the heart. I remember I fired several times and that bull just trotted around a little with its head up smelling the air. I never came real close to the animal, I was hitting low I found out later. I was told by an older hunter that I would have had to aim 5 ft or more above its backside. Ummmmmm how could that be I thought to myself.

"Killing Shots have been from 20feet to over 250yds [offhand]."

Off hand shots at running game at 250 yards is a stunt and unethical. I like how you had to throw in the "offhand". Talk about a bragart and stunt shooter. You were doing nothing more than using that living animal as a target. You did it for no other reason than to brag, just like you are now. Why didn't you get a rest? How many have you wounded shooting off hand? You probably don't know, because they didn't drop at the shot. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Flinch

I dunno, it's never happened to me.

When it comes to longer-range shots, I try to find my shooting weaknesses on steel, and then fix them and become proficient, before trying such shots on game.

Not exactly DRT.
I enjoyed the video and I am impressed by the rifle but it didn�t make me want to run out and swap what I�m using now.
I have huge respect for Wayne but that they did this as a promotion creeps me out a little.
Is there like a trend now toward light calibers at long range? It seems like it invites trouble.

This is almost as bad as manufacturing a story about a well known person in the hunting industry and posting it as if its factual information on a public message board and worded in a way to turn people away from the mans business. And then, when called to provide any sort of fact to the outlandish BS story that you made up you decide to go back and edit all of your posts instead of being a man about it and apologizing for being a dumbass. Yeah Flinch, your the right guy to "call people out" on ethics issues. GFY

Drummond

I am a little amused at the notion that getting closer was a good option on that shot.

1. We were on a ridge that had no cover to move down to the level of the elk.

2. There were elk within 300yds of us and moving down the hill would have unquestionably spooked the herd.

3. The elk were in head high sage and there was only one elk in a group of 35 that Wayne could shoot.

4. New Mexico shooting hours end at sunset and when Wayne shot there was only about 8 Min of legal hunting time left.

5. The wind was very low and unpredictable and the odds of not getting busted by one of the 35 or so noses in the valley would be a long shot indeed.

I really do find it interesting that a few would watch the video and conclude the smart thing would be to try and climb down a bare ridge into head high sage to attempt to sort out one bull in a herd of 35.

What kind of shot would there have been at 300yds in that tall sage??

Seems simpler to use the terrain, prone position and lack of wind to your advantage and simply shoot the bull.

Now I personally would have shot from there just because I like to do that kind of thing, but I promise you Wayne really would have preferred to get closer if there was any reasonable chance, but those that have much elk hunting experience can see the best option was shoot or pass for the evening and not blow the herd out of the country on a bad stalk where the elk have all the advantages.

The closer is always better is a silly argument because it always applies until we actually make contact with the bull with our muzzle. Until that point you could always get closer.

Real hunters understand you simply stalk to the best situation and take the shot or pass based on your proven abilities. Some guys have more range than other guys because they work harder and are more dedicated to improving their abilities.

Wayne works pretty hard and is not your average Joe hunter and his shooting skill reflects that effort.

Who said the deer was running? As I said, I've only lost 2 deer in nearly 30yrs of hunting. I know how to track and trail deer. I grew up hunting the Adirondack Mountains with my father. I was hardly big enough to follow him thru the deep snow when I started learning about hunting.

Hayfields don't have trees to rest the gun on. Incase you where wondering, I practice with my 22LR bolt gun at 200yds OFFHAND at a 10" steel plate.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Wayne could shoot better at 600yds prone than you could offhand at 200yds.

Just my guess.

Hint. I have personally seen Wayne hit Berger bullet boxes at 500yds from prone with just a sling (got the video too). And not just once.

Seen him shoot at a mile too. Seen him shoot a lever gun to 600yds and he darn sure could have killed that bull with that gun. Got all that video also.

Guys who work hard can do things other cannot do and should not try. Just the facts of life.

Well said John!

Some people just gotta try to micro mgt a game in which they never even set foot on the court on...

Or as Bobby Knight once said "I've got a guy that with 2 seconds left can kick a field goal from 63 yds out, and I've got a guy who with a full count and bottom of the 9th of the last game in the world series and with bases loaded can grip it and wrip it to win the game, and I've got a guy who can step to the free throw line with no time left and hit two to win the NCAA, only problem is to get the SOB to put down his beer and dog and come out of the stands and do it....

Dober

A little off topic, but that is a great quote Mark.

Beautiful!

I sat next to Coach Knight on a flight from Phoenix to Lubbock one time and I really enjoyed the conversation. That's another story for another time though

Drummond

J-the point was that there's always people willing to tell people what they should be doing when in fact they don't have experience doing it.

Someone bitching about a 600 yd shot on an elk and such and yet they've never hunted elk at all.

So yeah, kind of off topic but not really...or at least that's the way I see it.

Dober