ok so ill post this here as well while it is from another thread , it also pertains to this one .
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but lets try and get back on track here . im going to post a few of the Remington lawsuits for injury and or death . following those ill post a link to Remington's oppenion on the subject . try to look past this being about centerfire and try to relate the points to how it pertains to muzzleloading
On November 14, 1982, Mike Lewy went deer hunting on the family land where he and his parents, Evelyn and Jack Lewy, lived. He returned home around noon and entered his basement living quarters, placing his loaded Remington Model 700 bolt-action center fire 30.06 rifle (M700) on a couch. Prior to going to bed at around 10:30 that evening, Mike remembered the loaded rifle and decided to unload it. Mike pointed the rifle toward the ceiling and proceeded to unload it. The design of the rifle required the safety to be moved to the fire position in order to lift the bolt handle to eject a chambered cartridge. When Mike placed the safety on the fire position the rifle discharged and the bullet penetrated the ceiling striking his mother in the upper left leg while she was seated in a living room chair. Mrs. Lewy required hospitalization for slightly more than a month, but she has now apparently recovered from the accident.
Mrs. Lewy and her husband filed suit against Remington Arms and the K-Mart Corporation for damages, alleging three separate theories of liability: strict liability -- design defect, strict liability -- failure to warn, and negligent failure to warn. The Lewys alleged two design defects: 1) the bolt lock feature which required the rifle to be in the fire position when unloading and 2) the fire control mechanism which is susceptible to firing on release of the safety (FSR). Evelyn Lewy claimed damages for personal injuries and Jack Lewy claimed damages for loss of consortium. The jury returned a verdict in favor of the Lewys on all three theories of liability. Evelyn Lewy was awarded $ 20,000 in compensatory damages and $ 400,000 in punitive damages while Jack Lewy was not awarded monetary damages.
now lets take a look at Remington�s side . which by the way , in so many words once again points the shooter error . as you watch this video keep in mind these things . improper modification and improper maintenance. While this concerning the Walker trigger . I would point out that the improper maintenance theory also applies to muzzle loading regardless of the type of failure .
Also very same argument that Remington is making concerning the numbers of guns sold , also is valid IMO concerning CVA and the many other companies using Spanish products . IE the numbers of lawsuits vs. the number of sales .
As such , I would like to try and pull this topic back on track . So when you watch this video of Remington�s side of the story , try to keep in mind how this shooter error and poor maintenance issue applies to muzzle loading . Be it Spanish made , US made , Italian made . Modern or traditional. My hope is that people will then realize why it is that the vast amount of time ANY failure of a firearm can be traced to shooter error . doesn�t mater if its RW , TB or Joe Snuffy ,who has the issue . All to often what seems to be fact , is only fact if the story is twisted so as to produce a fact that simply isn�t there
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983 919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
I had to laugh here because I've heard of just as many Savage muzzle loaders blowing up as I have of CVA's or other Spanish made ones.
I personally don't think we need a moderator. On most forums moderators can't ban. I think we need an admin to step in here and lay down the ban hammer.
If we just disagreed with you, I'd have no problem with what you are doing. However, I do have a problem with you spreading false information to people on purpose. I don't want someone that doesn't know any better to end up with some POS because they went off of your recommendation. Especially the guy about the Elk hunt. Now, anyone that has posted here for more than a week knows not to take anything you say seriously, but what about someone new here? They might not realize that, and that's why you need to be banned, so you can't give them false information.
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
I had to laugh here because I've heard of just as many Savage muzzle loaders blowing up as I have of CVA's or other Spanish made ones.
I personally don't think we need a moderator. On most forums moderators can't ban. I think we need an admin to step in here and lay down the ban hammer.
. I don't want someone that doesn't know any better to end up with some POS because they went off of your recommendation. Especially the guy about the Elk hunt. Now, anyone that has posted here for more than a week knows not to take anything you say seriously, but what about someone new here? They might not realize that, and that's why you need to be banned, so you can't give them false information.
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
The Gospel truth.....
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983 919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
You forgot T/C...who sells more ML rifles in one month than the Savage or Knight ever sold in a year. CVA is running a very close second.
It boils down to this. With the loss of the 700ML there are 2 safe and useable muzzleloading brands still in production. They are Savage and Knight. Buy one and live to be old and in one piece.
You forgot T/C...who sells more ML rifles in one month than the Savage or Knight ever sold in a year. CVA is running a very close second.
Doc
+1 and originally put Knight out of business because of that fact.
I saw you say that on another forum, and it may be true overall, I don't know, but I do find it extremely hard to believe based on this area. Most of the guys I hunt with have muzzle loaders and I personally only know two of them that have CVA's, a couple of them have Knights, and all the rest of them have T/C's. In this area it seems like T/C outsells CVA's by about 15 to 1. I also have noticed this at Walmart as they put their muzzleloaders on clearance at the end of the muzzle loading season. All of the ones nearyby sold out of the T/C Omega Z5 right away, but I know of 2 of them that still have a CVA Optima leftover as we speek. One of them also has another CVA still left, but I can't remember the model. It's like the $125 one. They have all been sold out of T/C's for like 6 or 7 months now.
That being said, I'm not saying that CVA's are bad, just that in this area T/C's certainly are more popular. That doesn't really mean they are or aren't better, just what people use.
Sabots are a pain in the rear end for any gun. My V2 Accura loves the crush ribs, but our apex, optima, wolf prefer either the high pressure red sabot or the harvester smooth sabot.
The Apex especially loves a .451 405gr bullet in the black smooth sabot.
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