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Has anyone used the new 250gr Hornady SST sabots in this muzzle loader and will the 50gr ball powder work with the standard niple. Someone told me that this gun has the wrong twist for these sabots and the powder does not ignite well also. Help me on this one.
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Not sure what you mean by "ball powder" 264wm.
If you're referring to smokeless ball powder used in cartridge handguns, DON'T DO THAT. You would be building a hand grenade. Never use any form of smokeless powder in your Hawken.
If you meant black powder, 50 grains would be a very light load under a 250 grain bullet, but would be fine for target shooting or whitetails at short ranges. A standard nipple and #11 caps should readily ignite black powder or any of the approved substitutes like Pyrodex, Triple 7, American Pioneer, etc. It won't ignite Blackhorn 209. But Blackhorn should not be used in a sidelock anyway.
The TC Hawken has a 1:48" twist. It may shoot some sabot/bullet combinations quite well. Some do and some don't seem to like sabots. All you can do is give it a try. A good "fall back" bullet would be the Hornady 385 grain Great Plains lead conical over about 70 grains of Pyrodex or Triple 7.
Last edited by Semisane; 06/25/11.
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I can't remember the name it is a ball that is equal to 50 grains of black powder so two balls would be 100 grains and also comes in other size balls.
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When I hunted muzzle loader years ago I used black powder and measured loads with a scale and had several speed loaders ready to use.
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You don't need to measure loads with a scale. 777 or pyrodex will work fine too.
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I found that my hawken shot sabots okay, but they were such a pain in the azz to load, I gave up on them quickly.
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These new Hornady SST sabot round are supose to be easy to load and since I purchased 40 I will have to test them.
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I tried the SST's, and they only shot well out of 1 of my 6 sidelock 1:48's. The best I have found are the 240 - 250 gr. XTP's. You will not notice the difference in ballistic coefficient in the field, and I think the XTP is a better performer on game at ML velocities. I have killed deer at 5 to 175 yards with the 240gr XTP over 100gr. (loose) T7.
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I was wondering if a person put 5 or 10 gr of standard powder in first then the pellets if they would ignite properly in the side hammer.
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I was wondering if a person put 5 or 10 gr of standard powder in first then the pellets if they would ignite properly in the side hammer. Yes, that will work fine. But if you're going to measure and pour powder why not just go that way for the full charge. If you already have the pellets give them a try. They may ignite OK in your gun. But I would not trust them for hunting, especially in very cold or damp weather.
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I was wondering if a person put 5 or 10 gr of standard powder in first then the pellets if they would ignite properly in the side hammer. No point to it! Heck, it's just as fast to load the whole thing with loose. Loose generally has a bit more oomph anyways. What is the advantage to pellets? A speed loader is pretty fast, and this is NOT the heat of battle. A few more seconds should not make a huge difference. The real point is, pellets just aren't needed, don't have as much power per weight, are more expensive, and if you have to load a charge to ignite it, slower. Why do it?
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Going to hunt with a cap lock do it right use 80- 100gr of loose powder ,use a round ball or maxi,a cap #11 and go hunting. If your smart, load up 2or3 pre loader of best load for gun an have fun been hunting this way for 48 years now
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Thanks for all the info. I will not get the pellets and hopefully the SST will work in my gun. If I am remembering right the last game I took with the TC Hawkin was a elk at about 60 yards with a 385 gr hornady maxi and 140gr black powder in the late 70's or early 80's. He ran about 20 yards. It was my brother inlaws gun and I gave him 5 speed loaders that I had loaded, The next day he called to ask what in the world load was in them, then went on to complain about his shoulder and how it about knocked him off the bench. LOL I told him I was loading for elk not deer.
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It's unlikely you did more than increase recoil with a 140 grain charge as the weight of the powder charge is a factor in calculating free recoil and a very real factor toward increasing felt recoil. The point of diminishing return is achieved rather quickly in muzzleloaders and shortly after that point all you are doing is blowing unburned powder out the muzzle. That is to say nothing of the increase in chamber pressure given the weight of the projectile and powder charge. 100 grains would have been plenty and provided the same result.
The Maxi-ball was and is a good hunting projectile and if I were insistent upon using a conical of some variety the Maxi would be my choice. Personally, in over 35 years, I've never seen the need for more than the lowly yet effective patched round ball and loose powder. It's only worked for several hundred years on game around the world. I have no use for alfalfa pellet type powders or sabots. Too expensive and totally unnecessary in any sidelock.
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It's unlikely you did more than increase recoil with a 140 grain charge as the weight of the powder charge is a factor in calculating free recoil and a very real factor toward increasing felt recoil. The point of diminishing return is achieved rather quickly in muzzleloaders and shortly after that point all you are doing is blowing unburned powder out the muzzle. That is to say nothing of the increase in chamber pressure given the weight of the projectile and powder charge. 100 grains would have been plenty and provided the same result.
The Maxi-ball was and is a good hunting projectile and if I were insistent upon using a conical of some variety the Maxi would be my choice. Personally, in over 35 years, I've never seen the need for more than the lowly yet effective patched round ball and loose powder. It's only worked for several hundred years on game around the world. I have no use for alfalfa pellet type powders or sabots. Too expensive and totally unnecessary in any sidelock. Ditto. Experimenting with new innovations in powder and projectiles is fun and interesting from an academic viewpoint but don't be fooled into thinking that any of that stuff is a panacea for good marksmanship and refined hunting skills. 140 grains of anything in a .50 side lock is pretty absurd IMO.
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Sounds like that would defeat the purpose of using pellets. I've had best luck with good old FF in sidelocks. Some substitutes work, some better than others, but why?
Real black ignites more reliably and smells GREAT. Cleaning is not such a chore as some think.
My .02, ymmv.
Oops, was replying to the last post on the first page.
Last edited by Brazos; 06/28/11.
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Is 02 ymmv like my 04 h2 ymmv?
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