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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
see that wall over there? It would understand a lot quicker..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
and [bleep], if a 165 AB outta a '06 ain't good enough to kill any elk living, I'm getting out of the game.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245 |
Never messed w/ a WSM, but Im guessing my 06' load pushing the 200 NP @2700, the difference wouldn't be noticed by any game animal to 400 yds.
Gunner
Trump Won!
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
and [bleep], if a 165 AB outta a '06 ain't good enough to kill any elk living, I'm getting out of the game. Point conceded, but having flung many hundreds of each downrange out to 600+ yds, the 200-NAB from the Winnie (or I presume WSM) far outclasses the 165 from an '06 in terms of ability to hit. It's not subtle. The 200 will drive deeper up close too. Areas I hunt elk are nothing like the terrain you got that nice bull with your 7 SAUM.... I'd take the deer-penetrating bullet for a quartering- away shot that might need to go through some wadded up grass, any day, over the 165. It's really simple. What works? Why, both do of course. What works best from the two choices? The 200 from the WSM, running away.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
.... and he already owns the 300 WSM...
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
Silly me.. I thought the "ability to hit" was all up to the shooter.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
This is [bleep] crazy. When stupid chit like this can drive a discussion on this forum, stick a fork in it.. It's done.
The best days of this website are long gone.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
There was an article in the local paper lately about a young hunter that died unexpectedly at the tender age of 93 or so. He had spent the last 80 years hunting and guiding in the Mission Mountains and in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. For a lot of those years, according to that article he used a 30/30 that was given to him when he was about 12. The fella that gave it to him had killed 30 grizzlies with that 30/30. The article didn't say, but I am assuming he actually shot the grizzlies and didn't beat them to death with ballistic minutiae. Neither one of the poor bastids apparently had enough time to read what some guy from New Jersey thinks makes a good elk rifle!  Fred
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Jeff
You keep getting farther and farther from what it takes to kill an elk in the field. Sectional density doesn't kill an elk and small differences in wind drift don't either.
What kills elk is somebody that can hit a basketball sized target quickly from field positions with a decent bullet. A reasonably light rifle is a big help as is a rugged scope.
To hit a basketball sized target quickly requires frequent practice and familiarity with the rifle. MOST PEOPLE cannot handle the recoil of a 200 grain bullet at 300 WSM velocities in a light rifle. That is said after years of working the sight in day at rifle ranges, and years of watching big tough guys from back east show up to hunt and not being able to hit a deer or an at 100 yards with their beloved magnums.
I also know there are lots of people here that shoot enough to handle a 300 WSM- I didn't say no one could handle the recoil, I said that most people can't-
I get the drizzling shizits every time an elk rifle discussion starts and people yard out their ballistic charts, wind meters, micrometers to measure group size to the nearest 10/1000 inch. Fer craps sake, elk hunting IS NOT precision riflery except under the most unusual circumstances. I wonder how many people that sort through bullets to trim a 1/16 of an inch off their group size could put three shoots from offhand into an 8 inch circle at 100 yards.
And I have never ever heard of an elk struck by any decent bullet from a 30/06 that got away when a 300 WSM would have killed him with the same placement.
Fred
Fred, don't disagree per se, but the OP asked the question & ownes the rifles already. Bozos at the range aside, I personally can do better with what I described... that not theoretical, it's just what I know to be true from shooting pretty much exactly what the OP is asking about.... I'll contest that SD is meaningless in this instance. Two bullets of identical construction, similar MV's (edge to the WSM actually), and a 200-gn bullet vs. a 165? That 200 is gonna dig deeper and not by a little. Could matter. Anyway I'm off to the river then to the beach then to dinner then to fireworks... best get rollin'... happy 4th to y'all!
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245 |
Yes Royce, key word here is HUNTER, that old dude was probably within spittin' distance when he dropped the hammer on that 30-30.
Gunner
Trump Won!
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Silly me.. I thought the "ability to hit" was all up to the shooter. Stop being a whiner. Jesus H. dude. "Ability to hit" starts with the shooter but can be derailed by equipment at any step. He asked what was best from his two choices. I told him. I've hunted elk with a 165 Accubond in an '06, you dope. Nobody is saying it won't work. 
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
A bullet's "ability to hit"..
That's just as [bleep] stupid as "tired hands".
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,110 |
Jeff,
A more accurate comparison between the .30-06 and .300 WSM would be with the 180- and 200-grain AccuBonds, since in the same length barrel these can be given about the same muzzle velocity. I know this because I've loaded for both rounds a lot.
The actual G1 BC's of the 180 and 200 Ab's, according to Bryan Litz, are .481 and .524. Let's start each at 2850 fps, which in my experience is a sane max for both rounds.
According to Bryan's program, at 700 yards the 200-grain drifts about 4 inches less in a 10-mph crosswind. Please explain how this would make a vast difference in "hittability."
The 180 would also be going 83 fps slower. Please explain how this would cause the 180 to fail to penetrate.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042 |
I'll take a mono 165 out of a 3006/308 over a 200 Hndy out of a .338... from my own rifles that is... from experience of my own rifles that is, from over 30 elk... 80% DRT with the 165... 0% DRT with the 200... same placement... not guessing... and I'd take a mono over a AB... but that's me.
165 mono in 30 cal is bad medicine for elk in either caliber, hunt the most 'huntable' gun for the circumstances in the field. Sometimes that means miles of light carry over long barrel and weight.
Kent
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
Jeff
I'd be more interested in how you do shooting coyotes or prairie dogs on a walk about hunt than paper punching.
Fred
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,275
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,275 |
Jeff,
A more accurate comparison between the .30-06 and .300 WSM would be with the 180- and 200-grain AccuBonds, since in the same length barrel these can be given about the same muzzle velocity. I know this because I've loaded for both rounds a lot. That's been my observation as well... in fact was thinking that very same thing today shooting 200's out of my 23" bbl'd 300 WSM at 2,800-2,840. Getting all amped-up over the 300 WSM vs. 30-06 is sort of silly IMO. To me it's more about the platform than the round. Either is totally elk capable as far as a competent shooter can shoot. 180's? 200's? Either will work... finding a good bull is an entirely different matter. As the old saw goes, "the best elk rifle is whatever the best elk hunter has in his hands."
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Eenie-meenie-minie-mo......
There's no difference, even tho'
Some on here would make it so.....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
That is my rifle, this is my computer,
I like it better, even though I can't shoo 'er
Cuz she always shoots itty bity groups, near and far,
from the couch or the bar...
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Fred think we both tipped a few to celebrate the 4th! So, Happy 4th O' July! 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 805 |
Good one!!
You nailed it.
Happy 4th!
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