Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Competitive Shooting Why F-TR over F Open?

I just shot my first F Open shoot this past weekend and I think I'm hooked. I was shooting a 6XC and managed a 577-18X at 600 yards for my first time shooting past 250 yards. The one thing I'm curious is how you choose if you want to be a F-TR shooter or a F Open shooter? I had a blast with my 6XC, but was surely beat out by those with superior equipment and practice. But I'm left wonder if I would be better off learning the ropes with a 308 or even 223?

You are pretty much in the same boat I was in last year. I started in F-Open because I didn't really have a 308 to shoot F-TR
after a few matches (3-4) I decided to put together a F-TR gun. I'm a beginner at it like you so take what I say for what it's worth, but I'd run what you got and start looking at putting together a F-TR rifle. It is still somewhat of an equipment race in F-TR, but less so then F-Open. They are both fun, but I think F-TR is a little more about the guy behind the rifle.

Okay, you guys have me heading on over to the NRA site later tonight and also google to figure out just what in the heck you're talking about. F-TR vs F Open? Oh well, I guess I can do that, write a thesis on gun control while packing up my entire house to move to a new one all at the same time, right?

Ftr is more complicated, tougher, harder whatever you want to call it.

How to decide? Its what you want to do... In Highpower there was no F class when I started but I could decide between Match rifle and Service rifle. Service rifle would lead to a distinguished badge eventually possibly(wife and I both earned them) and was harder to master than a match rifle. So of course we picked the more complicated challenge.

Mostly its what ya want to do really.

This question comes up all the time. I sure wish we could get a sticky for the thread.

Here is a link to help your research.
http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5248388/1/help_describe_F_Class_competit

FTR Shooter
Thanks for the link to that thread.

It was a no brainer for me as F TR is harder to do good at and no one shoots perfect in F TR.

Plus a 308 scoped rifle has been my bread and butter for a couple of decades.

As my body gets worse and worse I may change over to Open Class but right now I love shooting F TR

Lapua brass, 155 scenar, launched at 3050fps and watching througha Leupold 35x is alot of fun at 1000 yards

Mike

What would a 155 Scenar do in a 10 twist Rock 5R... 308/26 inch.... bad or good? I"m used to running 185s plus and stayed with a faster twist....

I'm guessing 155 likes 12 to 13.5 twist the palma bullets like but any work with a 10?

I run my 155 Scenars in a 1x11.27 Rock bbl now. They shoot better for me with faster twist at 1000 yards.

I would not stop shooting 185s at a 1000 yards though as they have some advantages

If your going to shoot 600, Buy a .223 for Ftr. Works well on your skills, "wind reading".. I've shot both .223 and .308. and with the bipods they make now and rear bags, you just about can make the gun track like a open gun."I think F-TR is a little more about the guy behind the rifle."? Buddy.. Thats in open and FTR.. This isn't bench-rest! If your going to shoot a "G"? Go with the .308 and the heavy pills your shooting now 185s and bigger, for the BC will help you where MV isnt their. The advantage of open is cal! 7mms .260s 300wsms. I can say that open is pricey$$$, But FTR is also depending on your stick and all the goodies you buy to make it shoot, like you want it to.
Good luck, and my your wife not kill you when you start your build.. lol. BC you'll NEVER STOP!!! ha Troy.

preaching to the choir.. wife shot everything with me so far, so when it came to builds... talk DOUBLE.... big time..... we each had 5 full on AR service rifles and a number of spare uppers for them...nothing is cheap.

223 works at 1000 for FTR too....

not like a 308 does

There may be some ways to surprise you on that, though I keep hearing the powder of choice is no longer available.... 2900 and a 90jlk ain't nothing to sneeze at.... If the powder and pressure allow the accuracy.

Hi Tac
Can you expand on this i have a slower twist and occassionally think i have unexplaned vertical but they seem to be one offs and not every time at 1,000 so i can not be certain they are not caused by up drafts.

As to the 223 i have heard there is a new powder that is getting guys over 2900 that looks promising haven't tried it myself so i can not confirm the results... maybe buddies Chrony is fast.

Trevor

2900 would not be unfeasable years ago with the right powders, bullet coatings and barrel choices.

But from what I"ve read... folks were getting to much vertical with them.. I've run them from a short tube at 1000 and done extremely well with the service rifle...but the 800 and 900 yard lines were almost perfect all the time.. the 1000 while I could hold my own, was definitely a bit interesting. Move from Highpower to F and the target is much harder....

In my few years of experience with competition, I"ve always come away that at 600 and beyond, a faster twist gives better groups and less fliers than a slower twist thats still supposed to be fast enough... cannot answer why.

Hi Tac
Can you expand on this i have a slower twist and occassionally think i have unexplaned vertical but they seem to be one offs and not every time at 1,000 so i can not be certain they are not caused by up drafts.

Trevor, the unexplained up and down is most common with 155s when you shoot 308. The 185s do away with alot of that. The fatser twist of the 1x11 twist seems to help some with the 155s but the 185s seem to have less up and down for unknown reason than the 155s do. I think its the less stable light nose of the 155 but no engineer here.

Here is a thought on cross winds and such. The wind flows over land just like water would do and when it goes over a berm it can cause up and down drafts.

Hope this helps

Thanks Tac

I owe a couple of beers for all the help. I will make good if I run into you in Wisconsin

Your thoughts have confirmed some of the elevation issues I have experienced. I have noticed on occasion during up drafts the entire line has shots going high.. I figure those shooters can't shoot until it happens to me LOL. I am trying out heavies right now for that vary reason. The 185 seems to thump the x ring with out much difference. I have however asked those that shoot the 185 if they have experience dropped shots on down drafts, because if they don't rise due to their weight they must fall faster. The response is indifferent most chalk it up to their load.

Getting back to the updraft and 223�s that is the reason I haven't committed to a 223 at long distance if up drafts push 155's around then it can only exaggerate the effect with the 90's a few guys I compete against have great mid range scores but lose more points to vertical then I like at 900 and 1,000.

Trevor

IMHO its not bullet weight thats simply the issue, its a combo of SD/BC and MV... that may or may not relate to weight. Remember 90 in a .224 is HEAVY. Way heavier than a 185 in a .308 so to speak....

Updrafts and downdrafts affect the same, its IF you get fliers in NO conditions elevation wise that is a huge issue. Shooting at night with no wind and no mirage is a true test of ammo.

Not really. The sectional density of a 90gr .224 bullet is .256. The SD of a 185gr .308 bullet is .279.

The most critical aspect in a trajectory calculation os going to be the BC value and for the same shape, the higher BC goes along with the higher SD. There is simply no way the 90gr .224 bullet can hold a candle to the 180/185gr bullet in the wind.

As for the 155gr in .308, please refer to my sig line.

Denys

Heck I am open for beer I dont care who buys.

Now dont get me wrong because for 600 yards I like the 155s better. They seem to group better than 185s and are less pounding on equipment.

I also prefer 155s for unknown distance shooting because they have shallower fall angle than 185 or 175s do.