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A friend is new to shooting and reloading, but has a wonderfully accurate M700 .30-06. He's shooting 150 BTs with 61 grains of H4350. He's shot 13 three shot groups that have averaged an amazing .610". However, the chrony says he's getting 3110 fps (and the velocity has been very consistent).
Is this load safe? I'm guessing it's around 63 K psi, but that's only a guess. Thanks for your input.
Only a fool would sell an accurate .30-06
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Campfire Outfitter
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Looks like Hodgdon says 62 grains is max so I'd say rock on. I am running 58 with 180s, but may try 150s this fall if daughter gets an elk tag.
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Thats pretty interesting velocity. Sounds like ya got this one tied down. If it ain't broke--don't fix it!
"If you don't stand up for what you believe,,you stand for nothing"
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Campfire Tracker
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Drop down to the speed of 3110 on this chart and quick load thinks your guess of about 63k is spot on: Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 150, Nosler BalTip 30150
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 99 54.90 2824 2655 45576 9072 94.8 1.200
-09.0 100 55.51 2857 2719 47233 9175 95.3 1.181
-08.0 101 56.12 2890 2783 48961 9275 95.8 1.162
-07.0 103 56.73 2924 2847 50757 9370 96.2 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 104 57.34 2957 2913 52628 9462 96.7 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
-05.0 105 57.95 2991 2979 54576 9549 97.1 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 106 58.56 3024 3046 56605 9631 97.5 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 107 59.17 3058 3114 58725 9710 97.9 1.071 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 108 59.78 3091 3183 60933 9783 98.2 1.054 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.0 109 60.39 3125 3252 63238 9851 98.5 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 110 61.00 3158 3322 65643 9915 98.8 1.020 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 111 61.61 3192 3393 68156 9973 99.0 1.004 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 112 62.22 3225 3464 70783 10026 99.3 0.988 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 114 62.83 3258 3536 73530 10073 99.5 0.972 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 115 63.44 3292 3609 76403 10115 99.6 0.957 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 116 64.05 3325 3682 79414 10150 99.8 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 61.00 3304 3635 79534 9592 100.0 0.946 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 61.00 2955 2909 53440 9676 92.9 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
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OP
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Thanks for going to the trouble, Kracky. I guess his load is a keeper!
Only a fool would sell an accurate .30-06
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Campfire Outfitter
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Drop down to the speed of 3110 on this chart and quick load thinks your guess of about 63k is spot on: Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 150, Nosler BalTip 30150
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 99 54.90 2824 2655 45576 9072 94.8 1.200
-09.0 100 55.51 2857 2719 47233 9175 95.3 1.181
-08.0 101 56.12 2890 2783 48961 9275 95.8 1.162
-07.0 103 56.73 2924 2847 50757 9370 96.2 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 104 57.34 2957 2913 52628 9462 96.7 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
-05.0 105 57.95 2991 2979 54576 9549 97.1 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 106 58.56 3024 3046 56605 9631 97.5 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 107 59.17 3058 3114 58725 9710 97.9 1.071 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 108 59.78 3091 3183 60933 9783 98.2 1.054 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.0 109 60.39 3125 3252 63238 9851 98.5 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 110 61.00 3158 3322 65643 9915 98.8 1.020 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 111 61.61 3192 3393 68156 9973 99.0 1.004 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 112 62.22 3225 3464 70783 10026 99.3 0.988 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 114 62.83 3258 3536 73530 10073 99.5 0.972 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 115 63.44 3292 3609 76403 10115 99.6 0.957 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 116 64.05 3325 3682 79414 10150 99.8 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 61.00 3304 3635 79534 9592 100.0 0.946 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 61.00 2955 2909 53440 9676 92.9 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Is this load safe? I'm guessing it's around 63 K psi, but that's only a guess. Thanks for your input.
Am I missing something?
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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The real questions to be answered are which and how many of the classic signs of excessive pressure are present, like case stretch, flattening of primers, holes in primers, hard extraction, leakage around the circumference of primers, and so on.
Living proof that expressing your opinion is not a good career advancement strategy.
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Campfire Tracker
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YES, there are no guarantees he's runnning 63k pressure. Smarter people than me have documented not seeing any pressure signs with certain lots of brass all the way to 70k pressure. It would be my experience that anytime you flirt with 3100 with a 150 in a '06 you are near max. I suppose going even 5-6 loadings with pockets still nice and snug wouldn't even be a "for sure we're safe" but if I had that as a final gauge I'd be ok with it.
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YES, there are no guarantees he's runnning 63k pressure. Smarter people than me have documented not seeing any pressure signs with certain lots of brass all the way to 70k pressure. It would be my experience that anytime you flirt with 3100 with a 150 in a '06 you are near max. I suppose going even 5-6 loadings with pockets still nice and snug wouldn't even be a "for sure we're safe" but if I had that as a final gauge I'd be ok with it. Ok I understand now... It is a "Hot" load but how hot is up to the user... But it may not be "Crazy" hot. For me it would be too hot for sure... Then agin I would just get a 300WM
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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I'd put a star by that load in the notes and rock on.
I was once told by a guy that made CF pressure testing equip that modern CFs would handle far more pressure than a brass case could even begin to contain. He also commented that you have to consider the huge variables and safety factors that SAAMI has to take into acct. He said watching common pressure signs and the chrono was good logic for handloaders to stay safe. Seemed like a pretty smart fella. Truth to his comments? IDK, but I feel he was probably more in the know than most of us gun tinkerers.
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Posts: 60,115
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Several comments:
I've seen Chronys be accurate, and not so accurate--though 3100 fps with a 150 in a .30-06 isn't out of the realm of easy possibility.
I would trust the rifle and chronograph much more than QuickLoad. It's an interesting program but like any computer simulation isn't reality, despite how many people seem to think it is.
Also, the "!DANGEROUS LOAD--DO NOT USE!" warning is only due to the relatively low SAAMI max for the .30-06 of 60,000 psi. This is due to many old and otherwise questionable rifles in .30-06, not because a modern rifle in .30-06 is unsafe at around 65,000 psi, the SAAMI max for several similar rounds, including the .270 Winchester.
There are several modern powders that are listed as being able to start 150's at 3000+ in the .30-06--at SAAMI pressures. H4350 is one, and there's no real reason (other than a bunch of low-number Springfields) not to boost the velocity a little.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Several comments:
I've seen Chronys be accurate, and not so accurate--though 3100 fps with a 150 in a .30-06 isn't out of the realm of easy possibility.
I would trust the rifle and chronograph much more than QuickLoad. It's an interesting program but like any computer simulation isn't reality, despite how many people seem to think it is.
Also, the "!DANGEROUS LOAD--DO NOT USE!" warning is only due to the relatively low SAAMI max for the .30-06 of 60,000 psi. This is due to many old and otherwise questionable rifles in .30-06, not because a modern rifle in .30-06 is unsafe at around 65,000 psi, the SAAMI max for several similar rounds, including the .270 Winchester.
There are several modern powders that are listed as being able to start 150's at 3000+ in the .30-06--at SAAMI pressures. H4350 is one, and there's no real reason (other than a bunch of low-number Springfields) not to boost the velocity a little. Nice to know... all my boys rifles are 30-06s... I use Nosler Bullets and IMR 4350 and keep the loads around 2900Ft/Sec. It is as accurate as they are and seems fast enough. Nice to hear what I suspected / hoped... "This is due to many old and otherwise questionable rifles in .30-06, not because a modern rifle in .30-06 is unsafe at around 65,000 psi, the SAAMI max for several similar rounds, including the .270 Winchester." Snake
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Campfire Tracker
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I agree that quickload is just another "thermometer" but I'm finding it much more accurate in todays world than reloading data that has gone crazy soft. What I do like about quickload and will say IT IS VERY USEFUL is that when working up a load I ask it what's the fastest I might be able to push a bullet/barrel length combo. It will give me all the powders near say 65k pressure. I usually set about 50 fps slower than the top few combos as a "top end" load. That very often is where I see pressure signs with most my guns. It also useful to use the "step up chart" like that above once you've chrono'd a load to work up a little quicker. Sometimes quickload seems dead on but sometimes it might not match and be 4% off.
And I ALWAYS look at data from other sources and draw a balanced approach to work up. I would buy quickload again in a heartbeat but I do enjoy and do a fair amount of reloading.
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3110 with H4350 would make me feel like the load was too hot. Why push the envelope to the edge is my thinking. Add a some other variable like a bit of ice in the barrel or debri that isn't seen and all of a sudden your a realm of disaster. Maybe I'm exaggerating but just my way of looking at it.
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