Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles So who has worked with the .300 Blackout (.300/.221) ??

I am thinking of buying a CMMG upper in the caliber, and assembling it to an extra Stag lower I have on hand. The intent would be game up to deer with supersonic loads, and plinking/home defense with the subsonic loads. I gather Remington is selling factory ammo.

I have seen no ammo except subsonic. Some say you can shoot 300 whisper in the chamber, I think you can with no probs, I have seen 250 rounds boxes of some Hornady 300 Whisper. I have a 7.62 x 39 which is about the same, I have thought long and hard regards the 300ACC blackout, I just cannot justify it regards ammunition availability, flatness of travel, killing power on deer, or anything else.

if you walk into a store in Andalusia Alabama one can pick up a box or 3 of 223, not so much the rare birds 6.8 and 300ACC.

What then will you kill with the 300ACC that cannot be killed with a 223?

The Blackout and the 300 Whisper are essentially the same. Remington got it SAAMI'ed. The Blackout fully loaded with 125gr Ballistic Tips would be a deer dumper, much more so than a 223, IMO. It uses the lower and the magazines you currently own if you have an AR. I would get the upper and the suppressor from AAC, the can is also rated for up to 308win.

I realize its your opinion but I don't see the blackout as any more a deer dumper than a 64 grain power point from a 223.

Some places won't let you shoot deer with a 223.

I am building a SBR upper in the 300 BLK but have not loaded any rounds yet. I am waiting on my tax stamp to finish. It looks fun and great for a suppressor.

Why would anyone buy a .300 blackout (or whisper or fireball) for deer hunting with a host of better options out there for the AR? It's a niche round designed specifically for cans and/or subsonic shooting in areas where you don't want a lot of noise.

If you don't have those two restrictions, there isn't a single reason in the world to use this for hunting.

It's like owning a Porsche and putting a Hyundai 4 banger in it.

in my "theoretical studies" it did not seem much more than the 30 carbine a well reviewed cartridge with known results on many things.

It is a toy for me. Much like all the other gear I own.

I can understand that. It's an easy way to go subsonic. It's just this big marketing push on it when it's really a niche cartridge. I can see Remington killing the brass in a year or two like they do so often. Much like the 30 Rem Ar that made no sense whatsoever and is already entering it's death rattle.

that is a good point and I cannot disagree with you on the fun factor.

I am half toying with the idea of buying a place in the country, where a can might be darn useful. I already own an AR-10, and I guess the blackout and the 10 could share a can, should I need to deal with pests without disturbing neighbors.

I have a AR15T barrel on order from Armalite, so my .223 will become a target/varmint rifle.

I have another lower, which merits assembly. It will probably be a carbine, which could be pressed into a HD role, if required. I am also liking the idea of a gun that can be shot indoors without wrecking one's hearing.

But most of the time, yes it would be just a fun gun, interesting to handload. The 6.8 and the AR57 are under consideration as well, but they fill different niches.

AAC Really moved the development of this and designed the case to be resized mil surp nato so no neck turning. I bought 250 cases for $50 from a dude that whips them out on his Dillon. Rem should have rolled out the SAUM with a similar strategy, or 30 ar for that matter.

the silencer thing is a good reason to own one. Past that the much more common and 23 cents a round mil surp 7.62x39 makes a lot of sense.

Like Tex said, even with supersonic ammo, the can on a Blackout would be useful for a house gun. It probably wouldn't be ear safe inside a house but still a vast improvement.

I am waiting on a 30 cal can and thru reading decided that works well enough for the 223 also. Hard to make the 223 subsonic. So while I was at it, I thought a 30 cal upper makes some sense. I think I will have to get a 308 win too to fill out the lineup of subsonic stuff. I ordered one with a QD attachment so I have several rifles outfitted with the mount already. The can I have on the way will work with 7.62x39 also so I can go that route too.

making a 223 subsonic! that is a trick! They say the 300ACC with the big slugs will penetrate like no ones business up close, I would not mind having one but its ammo availability vs utility vs performance vs newness(bugs). The 300ACC does not bite, but its not that much greater to my way of thinking.

It is really just the 300 whisper which has been played with quite a bit. I have plenty of 308 bullets to play with too.

Really I want to shoot a coyote with one and see how it works.

it would be a magic powder to get a 130 grain going 2700 from that little 300ACC case. That right there would be really be something. Until then a 62 or 70 grain TSX will probably fill the void regards penetration for the 223.

Wow, somebody really has a hard on against the 300blk.

I think he is trying to convince himself he does not need one.

I live 10 miles from them and Kevin is an acquaintance. I would like to talk myself into getting one, for a subsonic silenced weapon its the cats meow. Their uppers are well made, they are a quality company, the cartridge is interesting, it is just not that much more than a 223 however if I had the bread to buy everything I wanted I would own one as well.

Gotcha.

Here in Washington must shoot .243/6mm or larger for large game, so even though 5.56 with Barnes TSX/TTSX would work great they're not legal. I've had a couple 6.8spc uppers but got tired of having to buy special magazines and expensive brass.

Got a ton of 5.56 mags, 300blk brass is cheap and lots of bullets.

I went with a Noveske Rogue Hunter for my 300blk, loving it so far.

That is a nice rifle! How does it shoot?

Finding that a 123 grain mild steel bullet from a 7.62 x 39 will sail through maybe 5 inches of pine wood at 100 yards and keep going more or less confirms in my mind that momentum is most important for penetration. Then finding 7.62 x 39 ammunition is pretty easy as is finding 5.56 at most any store that sells ammunition. I have another acquaintance that does training around the globe for various institutions, he is a practical sort and comments that 5.56 does what it is supposed to do at reasonable ranges, its commonly available and discourages ventures into unique cartridges.

What would change some of this in my mind is if Remington would really support this cartridge. I mean they started up the 6.8 and then pretty much backed off of it. Now I find that people are buying supersonic 300 Whisper loaded by Hornady and paying $200 for 200 rounds (IIRC) to shoot in the 300ACC. Anyway if I could not hunt with a 223 it would be my first choice over the 6.8 due to the mag issue.

They don't really have to support it because someone else will. Easy to make and load. The failure with the Whisper was the incredibly expensive stuff that went with it. Lee just put out dies for the BLK. Remington does sell a box of ammo for it for less that $20. Had they done that with the SAUM, the 6.8, the 30 AR and a variety of other niche cartridges they would have been more viable. If we kept all cartridge choices to 223, 30-06 and 375 H&H, how fun would churning guns be?

I'm just trying to imagine that to follow hunting rules, how much 6.8 brass and mags would you need? I've had a 6.8 necked to 6mm for probably close to 5-6 years now, I got 2 mags with it, and 100 rounds of brass. All I use it for is hunting.... I've yet to buy new brass or other mags... in fact I rarely take more than the 10 round mag with me.....

well I shot the 300 today, and it seemed to do as well or better that the 16" .223 upper that came on the rifle. Not bad considering it has a truly awful trigger. It ran reliably, although it was a very hot day, and I only shot 20 rounds of Remington subsonic factory ammo.

And yes, it is quiet, even without a can

So you chose an inferior cartridge for deer hunting because you couldn't afford to buy brass that runs the same price as .308 Win?

You could afford a Noveske upper but couldn't afford $43 a hundred brass.... for hunting no less, where 200 rounds would last you until Armageddon.

all of a sudden we are back to "my cartridge choice is better than yours". All of them 223, 300ACC and 6.8 are in about the same realm regards performance.

No I chose to get a gun that I would prefer to shoot and one that I think is better suited for hunting.

The RFB is a great gun, but loading and unloading it is not something that should be done constantly because of how the rounds eject. Ejecting live rounds is not recommended, and hunting that is necessary quite a bit.

Selling the RFB and buying the Noveske Upper put an extra $600 in my pocket too.

I reserve the right to buy, sell or trade any gun that I own based on any criteria that I see fit.

If all I wanted a gun for was to load it up and shoot a few rounds through it every year for deer hunting, I would not spend the amount of money needed to build and support an AR15 platform gun.

For $.35/rd I can load 110gr Sierra Varminter bullets at 2,450ft/s and shoot varmints/predators. Also turns out to be a really good range round.

$.75 gets me a premium hunting round using a Barnes TTSX or TSX-SBR bullet at the same velocity for deer.

Exactly.

When funds permit(when my wife starts teaching) I'm going to buy another 6.8spc or probably a 6.5g.

I love all guns/calibers, my bank account is the only limiting factor in owning all of them....



Range report here: Noveske Rogue Hunter 300 Blackout - Range Report

No, the Blackout has significant handicaps that you accept for the ability to easily go subsonic. That's not to say the Blackout doesn't have a niche in hunting, it does, but you're limited just like you're limited with a .44 mag pistol round for hunting.

Saying they are in the same realm may be true, but only if one's definition of "realm" is they're both a cartridge and they can kill stuff at the right distance. Otherwise, we might as well consider the .22lr and .22-250 in the same "realm".

I absolutely agree with you on the last point. Only questioned your stated rationale, not necessarily your decision to buy a Blackout.

No problem. I buy what I want, you probably do the same.

Next time i'll just skip posting the reason for buying it.

I am in the "sorry I do not see a big difference camp" but YMMV depending on how you look at it. Again, I do not own a 300 Blackout and most likely will not. For the mix of the 3, the 223 is about the best for what I use it fore.

The 6.8 runs a 110 gr boolit at 2750 and the blackout runs the same weight bullet at 2450. That's the same? That's like saying the 06 and 300 win are the same.

The 6.8spc and 6.5G are both better rounds ballistically, but you get it at the cost of special brass and magazines.

My next upper will be either a 6.8spc or a 6.5G, but for now i'm loving the simplicity and compatibility of the 300blk with my 5.56 guns.

For discussion sake...

300blk
110gr @ 2450fps energy
muzzle 1466
100yds 1170
200yds 928
300yds 729
400yds 568

6.8spc
110gr @ 2750fps energy
muzzle 1847
100yds 1566
200yds 1325
300yds 1115
400yds 932

223
77gr @ 2750fps energy
muzzle 1293
100yds 1099
200yds 933
300yds 787
400yds 600

interesting...

"Same realm"..... Laughin..

Then add in that rainbow trajectory from the slower speed and garbage BC.

Magazines, OK, that's somewhat true, though 6.8 magazines are readily available and cheap.

Brass though? How is 6.8 brass "special" and .300 Blackout not special? You're either buying brass with the correct head stamp which is 10X less popular and available as 6.8spc brass or you're buying/making modified .223/.221 brass.

.300 Black out brass is the very definition of "special brass".

Its about the suppressor thing! I bought some brass for $50 for 250 shipped, Lake City trimmed, formed and cleaned. That should hold me for a while.

Good 6.8spc magazines are not what I consider cheaper, PRI/Barrett - $35-40+.

Just bought 300 pieces of 300blk converted brass for $57.75/shipped. Last time I bought 6.8 brass was from SSA and it's about $55-60 shipped for 100pcs.

I'm done justifying why I bought what I bought, I'm glad that you enjoy pushing your agenda on everyone else.

I never asked you to justify what you bought, just to stop making questionable claims.

It's a cool round and has it's place. I have considered buying one on several occasions. But you keep making bullshyt statements and then when you get called on them, you get all hurt and claim people have an agenda. The only agenda I have is, people making questionable claims.

I don't care what you paid for converted once fired. It's "converted once fired". It is by that very name, "SPECIAL".

You can give anecdotal evidence of what you overpaid for 6.8SPC, the fact is you can buy Remington brass all over the place for $43 and this is the first time in 2 years Silver State hasn't had it on sale for $45. And if you want high quality, you can buy Hornady. 3 major manufacturers make 6.8spc. That's not "special".

And I love how you point to the most expensive 6.8spc magazines (PRI) as evidence. Never mind that until recently C Products made decent 6.8 mags for under $15 and now D&H makes affordable 6.8 mags.

It's all about the can and always has been since the 300 Whisper came out.

Running lighter bullets supersonic is nothing but marketing.

Whatever, you win.

Turn this 300blk thread into a 300blk vs 6.8/6.5

Unsubscribed.

Exactly. The can and running heavy for caliber bullets subsonic without a can. That is what the Whisper/Fireball was designed for and where it excels.

Oh, I guess AK ballistics pushing 125gr Nosler BT's is "marketing". Pretty damn good marketing, IMO.

7.62x39 pushes a 123gr bullet at 2400 fps.

.300 blackout pushes a 125gr bullet at 2215fps.

The stated .300 Blackout performance on a 110gr bullet above was 2450fps.

How are you getting "AK ballistics"?

Yeah, you're getting a similar fps...... with a 10% lighter bullet than the 7.62x39.

And who ever bought a 7.62x39 for the ballistics? They're bought for ultra cheap, available ammo.

Well let's get this right, Remington's ad would read;

Not as fast as the AK or even the 30 carbine, the 30/30, the 30AR or many other rounds but it can be loaded subsonic!

Great marketing... grin

Too Funny!

Yes the 30-06 and the 300 Win are about the same. Not a nickles worth of difference in them. You must be new to the world of cartridges and ballistics to believe a 300WM will kill something that a 30-06 will not. Same with these 3 little cartridges there is nothing in this whole wide world that you can kill with a 6.8 that you cannot kill equally well with a 223.

That's pretty impressive.

What load is that, and how much barrel length?

I've noticed most of the commercial 110gr loads are in the 2550-2600 fps range, with a 20" bbl.

I would think the 300 Blackout would make a viable deer round to 200 yards or so, via 125gr Ballistic Tips at 2200 fps MV.

Laughin as well, tell me what you can do with one that you cannot do with the other? 30-06 vs 223 now there is a difference. Besides the 6.8 is slowly dieing out, fewer and fewer rounds are loaded and purchased each year....

Yeah, that's why more bullet manufacturers keep adding 6.8spc specific bullets to their lineup. Hornady, Nosler and Barnes in the past year alone.

Unlike you, they don't go door to door checking how many rounds are being loaded, I guess. Perhaps you should let them know of your findings.

I guess the .32acp and .45acp are the same as well, they both can do the same thing I guess, in a moron's world.

Most commercial loads have to be mild enough for the early 6.8spc chamber and 1:10 twist.

Silver State has a couple 110gr loads meant for spc II chambers that are up to 2650fps with a 16" bbl.

You can get into the 2700's with an 18"bbl, a spc II chamber and preferably a 1-11 or 1-12 twist.

The 6.8 will soon go the way of the dodo bird, the military never adopted it, Remington is not supporting it, there are 2-3 different chambers, some manufacturers have the original chamber others a slower twist and longer throat, no law enforcement agency that I know of uses it, it needs special magazines to run it, there are just a small bunch of dedicated eccentrics that swear that they need another foot pound or two to kill a hog that are enamored with it. Thanks but no thanks you keep the 6.8, I will stick to the 223...and by the way only a moron would want to try and tell the difference between getting shot by a 45 or a 32, either one will kill you. Its sad that some people got snookered into buying into the 6.8 dud.

I don't know. I have a feeling the 6.8 is here to stay.

Seems to me it's popularity is growing rapidly, despite the initial growing pains.

its hard to say, in my friends gunshop they sell 100's of the 223 rifles of all makes and have a single 6.8 upper on the rack that has been there for a while. It may be growing but at what rate and what percentage of total sales? Not much is my observation, there is a small vocal minority but once you get past launching a 22 from a 14 inch barrel into 16 or 18 inch barrel lengths the need for the 6.8 kind of fades away (ask the Eskimo's they kill everything with the 223). Some people like to pour cold water all over another man's choice in firearms or calibers and treat said purchases with disdain. In my opinion there is just not that much difference in the 3 we are talking about and anyone that says there is has some type of hangup over one or the other of the cartridges.

I think the 6.8 will survive and live a wondeful life, once the Remington touch wears off. I won't own one but that does not make it a bad round. Hogs are taking over the country and it seems to be gaining popularity with hog hunters.

The 300 Whisper/AAC/Blackout seems to be a niche cartridge, with a can being that niche. I can see it being used suppressed with heavy bullets and NV to snipe pigs under feeders at night. But running it with light for caliber bullets at speeds under calibers that are considered slow now won't make the masses run out to buy it.

It will work within it's limits but to me I think the 223 is a better round and I do not understand all the hooplah about it.

Of course everyone loves to hate the mouse cartridge and it's plastic gun so for some that maybe reason enough.

I haven't been a big fan of the 6.8 myself. I always thought 6.5mm or 7mm would have made more sense.

A couple months back I was shooting with a few others at steel and one fella had a Rem 700 6.8. I think it was a LVSF. fluted bbl, about 22" or so. It was a lot of fun and very accurate on 600 yard steel, launching 110 VMax. Seems to me it would make a decent huntinfg rifle for recoil sensitive shooters. Kind of in the same league as the 250 Savage.

It would be hard for me to justify one, already having 308 boltguns and 5.56mm AR15s, and Montana having no caliber restrictions. I'm trying to simplify my logistics too. But, I can see the draw.

We need to ask Bricktop what he thinks...

finally I probably will never own either 6.8 or 300ACC despite the fact that I hate reloading for the 223 for some reason.

To everyone else, get a life, when someone posts (a newer member) about their new rifle in some caliber you don't like then "so what" its their money and its already spent!!

I think that's the main problem I have with the 6.8, I already have a 308 and a 243AI in a bolt gun that is miles ahead of the 6.8 or 6.5G. I do have a few friends with 6WOA's and they are alright but still no 243AI...

I think I could live anywhere in the world with a 308 and a 223 and get by just fine, I'm boring I guess but they work. If I get hooked by something other than those two, it has to do something way special, not be almost or close or even just a tad better...

The same I have a few bolt guns but I go through phases of boredom. So the blackout has got to be interesting and a lot of fun but not for me, the 6.8 sure its more but not so much more it makes me want to try it.

Interesting that this bothers Jimmy as to the 6.8spc, but not the .223 which has the .223, 5.56 and Wylde chamber.

The differences between the 3 6.8spc chambers and the 3 .223 chambers are very similar. In both cases, use of the latter two chambers will fire any ammo developed for any of the three.

And I'd still love to know where Jimmy came up with this Lee24esque claim:

You are comparing the loads made for the old chambers versus the loads made for the new chambers. That's like comparing a 243 to a 243AI. Are they the same? I have a stock Stag 7 Hunter that shoots the SSA tactical 110 accubonds at 2750 fps. My reloads, not pushed that hard, get 2780 and I haven't even tried the new AA2200 powder that should get me up to 2800 fps in my 20 inch barrel. I have a 223 also along with 270's, 7wsm, 06, 22's, pistols, revolvers, shotguns, airguns, whatever. Conceivably I could hunt everything I hunt with a 223. What fun would that be. A lot of us here have different calibers because that is what we like to do. You want to go turn on the tv every night and only watch I love Lucy? Oh, and Jimmyp. Seems I have been hunting, reloading, and pretty much doing all things gun related since the early 60's when I was old enough to start hunting. I ain't a newbie, nor do i post "internet velocities". Someone wants to talk about their 300 whatever, I'll read about it. But when you say that 2750 equals 2450 with the 2450 having a BC that sucks azz, I gotta call foul.

I'm not comparing anything.

I didn't know the 6.8 was getting 2750 with 110s. That's good performance.

its odd that the 6.8 guys are such a sensitive and emotional group.

Bwaahhhahaaaaaa..

it is good to laugh!

The disparity is so big that there is no question. 223 Is one of our top sellers
Series A is composed of our real top sellers hence we can discount due to long run production efficiencies.
There is no machine or material differences in any of our dies just simple costs based on volume

www.redding-reloading.com

I own three .223 uppers. Why you insist on defending a round that no one has criticized, is beyond me.

Your logical disconnect is the equivalent of stating that because the .308 Win is the most popular short action cartridge, that the 7mm-08 must be heading the way of the dodo bird.

NO not defending or slamming anything as a matter of fact the SSA 85 grain TSX load looks very interesting. Even in diversity we can find common ground, at the same time while I would not probably buy a blackout it has its niche as well, then if someone wants to hunt with it, more power too them. Now if they come here and say "I lost a deer because it did not do a good job" this in my opinion would be a better topic to jump all over someone's cartridge choice in.

Just stop making unsubstantiated claims, that's all I have asked of you.

I wish the 6.8 was more popular, I would like to have one, I am just one of those that like to be able to buy ammunition anywhere I might be.

that's a really great anology. I loved shooting marbles in the dirt when I was a boy. It is nice, though, to have a big bag of marbles.

We're just boys with our toys!

Ha too true. On comparing the little 300ACC round to a 6.8SPC its clear that one is designed to be more effective than the 223 at distance and one is designed to be used with a suppressor.

Thats why JD Jones called it the Whisper!

Those 220 grain slugs while like lobbing artillery at a distance just have to carry a lot of momentum..

First you say they are the same, then you say they are different. You sound a lot like one of the current crop of politico's.

Huh? The 6.8 is not the same as a 270 Winchester. At least that's what my congressman told me to say.

Guess you have a short memory. Typical post from someone who doesn't know jack about the 6.8.

foolish animosity for no reason other than an emotional attachment to something you have invested your money in!

I guess I don't know anything about the 6.8, but that does not stop me from getting past some hang up over "mine is bigger than yours". It just don't matter too me and they are all very similar, then the 6.8 seems a bit more powerful than the 300ACC which seems to be more suited to suppressors? Again if the 6.8 blows wind up your skirt more power too you. Maybe I will get a 6.8 one day as well!

I've added a Burris dot sight to mine, a better trigger on the lower, and found myself fairly unimpressed with it. It will do about 2 inches at 50 yards. These are the Rem factory subsonic loads. Certainly accurate enough for home defense, but with the original cartridge being known for fine accuracy I was expecting better I guess we'll see what handloads can do, with both subsonic and supersonic loads.

that's not bad AK accuracy however.

Actually, I have a Mini-14 that will beat it, too!

If it is a 4 MOA sight you are right in the ballpark. Is there any other 220 grain bullet traveling at 1000 fps that has a great reputation as a manstopper? I realize the 45 acp has a larger meplat (which I do firmly believe is a key component in stopping power) it will be interesting to shoot a few things with the Blackout to see if there is any correlation. I am pretty sure it will pencil thru but a 30 cal hole is easy to sew up in a coyote hide, and leave a lot of leaking. I will let you know, hopefully this winter.

Last trip to the range I tried a 10x scope, and it was running 3-4 inches at 100 yards, so I don't think it's optics.

I did notice this evening the quad rail was slightly loose, and tightened it up, but it's a free float model I'd be surprised if that was the problem.

I have a couple boxes of fireformed brass now, so I guess it's about to become a handloading project. I believe the 220 gr bullets are said to tumble when they hit something. Makes me wonder if in fact they are marginally stable at 1000 fps?

In any case, it's not accurate enough to suit me, so I guess it's now a project to get it shooting well.

how does the upper feed and eject? Who's barrel is on it? Have you shot any supersonic loads with different results?

function has been flawless so far, but I've only put about 40 rds through it. The upper is a CMMG, and I assume, their barrel.

and edit to add, no supersonic loads yet.

6.8 does not launch a 110 grain bullet at 2750 fps. People get those numbers, but they are loading over 55,000 psi.

If you want to load over SAAMI pressure in violation of normal industry practice, you can do that with any cartridge - 300 AAC BLACKOUT included.

Also, the BC of the Remington 300 AAC BLACKOUT supersonic bullet is listed by Sierra as 0.338.

300 AAC BLACKOUT is not compromised due to being subsonic compatible. The power level is limited due to two factors:

1. Being compatible with normal AR magazines.
2. Still having 30 rounds capacity.

For anyone who wonders why one would want this without a silencer - that is easy. It has similar power to AKs - the most popular assault rifle cartridge ever made - but is designed to be reliable in an AR and use normal magazines, bolts, and standard bullets.

As for why 6.8 is better than 300 BLK - 6.8 has some more power, especially with longer barrels and when shooting at a longer distance.

As for why 300 BLK is better than 6.8 - it uses normal magazines, normal bolts, and holds 30 rounds. Also, the UMC ammo coming out in November will be $12.99 MSRP, with an even lower street price. Most guys want the best home defense rifle they can also hunt with. That is not 223 in many states. Most guys don't want to pay 6.8 ammo prices.

You can think of 6.8 as like 10mm, and 300 AAC BLACKOUT as 40 S&W. The people who adopted 6.8 or 10mm had to go through a lot of hoops with the special bolts, magazines - so they want every ounce of power no matter what. 10mm people still call the 40 S&W the "short and weak." They are always going to feel that way.

300 AAC BLACKOUT has way cheaper reloading. New primed Remington brass is just 25 cents each at Midway - and if you want to spend even less, you can make it from 223 brass you find at the range.

Between brass being make-able from ubiquitous 223 brass, and using the hugely-popular 30 cal bullets - it is going to grow at a very fast rate.

Remington is going to support this - as there is strong demand for it, and has military customers. Besides, AAC (who I work for as project lead on this) is driving this - and we will keep support strong and prices low.

that is correct. SSA lists their 6.8 110 grain Tactical load at 2600 FPS. We can hunt with a 223 in GA so the 30 cal does not help me!

Well put - I have a 9mm Kel-tec S2000, which seems reliable and has some useful features, but has issues regarding optics mounting. It will work decently as a house gun. Deer? Ummmmm....not so sure about that...

I have a 16" AR10, which would be a dandy close range fighting rifle, and is nicely accurate - but I really don't want to shoot it in the house, even if I have to

I am hoping this Blackout works as well as you suggest, but 3-4 inches at 100 yards ain't good enough for me. I picked up a pound of Accurate 1680, so I'll work with the subsonic loads first, probably try 10-10.5gr with 220 Matchkings. Hopefully I can fix it without springing for a Noveske barrel