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Sad news from the great state...


Location: Beluga Lake
Case number: 05-67446
Type: Accidental Shooting Death
Text: On August 14, 2005 at approximately 2:00 pm Soldotna AST received
a report of an accidental shooting at Chakachatna River, three miles
south of Beluga Lake. AST Soldotna Patrol and ABI Soldotna responded to
the area and investigation revealed that Gary Kern, age 37 of PA, had
been shot one time with a .338 rifle by an assistant guide. Kern had
been hunting bears in the area with a guide service. Kern had fired two
shots and wounded a brown bear which was fleeing into the brush. The
guide who was also present and owner of the guide service told the
assistant guide to shoot to stop the bear. As the assistant guide fired,
Kern stepped in front of the rifle and was killed by a single gunshot
wound to the head. No criminal charges have been filed at this time.
Author: DRG1
Received and posted Monday, August 15, 2005 2:09 AM


AK Bureau of Wildlife Enforcement

And that why we shouldn't have to use guides to hunt bears in AK.

And your point is made how? According to the reports -- the client stepped in front of the guide's rifle...

Or why we shouldn't drive over 10 mph, or not wear bike helmets or have average citizens possess firearms, or etc. etc. etc. NEXT QUESTION, ( hey at least you're dancing on thin ice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Tell you what Moosie I'm all for Idaho not requiring non residents to have a guide for brown bears, if it suits you.

You know what's "SAD" is, this post had 1200 views and no one had a Comment and I say one thing and you guys now have something to say. It's like I'm tha A-hole that shot a hunter. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Although It's a sad tragic someone died, and I don't think the Guide could have done anything about it according to the reports, accidents happen and thats a fact. Thats really neither here nor there. I had to get my One line in about the Rules in AK for Guides. I honestly think It's Bogus that a NON res is Required to hire a Guide to hunt the "BIG 3" of AK. Although I also think It's Bunk to Have to Hire a Guide in Wyoming to hunt certain places. Someday I might take the time to organize something to do about it. With some of the Rules in Idaho It's getting closer every day. Until then, I'll spout out a comment or two.

The funny thing is there is always away around every law. Wyoming's law you can get a Proxy resident guide, AK you can have 2nd degree kindred, and In Idaho you can't buy a Landowners tag but can pay 8k for a Tresspass fee with a Free tag to go with it. *Insert Eyeroll Smiley here". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey 1akhunter, my post was a Statement, not a Question, so the Political response of "Next Question" does not apply.

Moosie
Unwad thy thong, Dude! Another thread on this topic ran for thousands of views and a ton of comment. Lack of comment was simply because it was a rehash... Now a chance to jump on Ol' Moosie does not come around every day! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As to the guide issue in AK, there must be a little window here for everybody to contact AK reps, the Gov, and their own congressmen and reps. The accident occurred on Fed land I believe and you do not get to hunt there without a guide, yet the place is overrun with bears.

You might also consider the fact you need to hire a guide to hunt AK on Federal land (and all other, of course) yet a resident alien does not. So resident is a more important title than alien...
art

Hi Sitka, I just moved to AK (Kodiak), did not know a nonres. has to have a guide to hunt any animals on Federal land. This is in the regs.? Thanks, Kid0917

Moosie, Who are you and why does your post elicit such responses? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

--Mike

kid0917
Welcome to the fire! And Kodiak.

Nonresident big-game hunters need guides for brown bear, sheep and goats, regardless the landowner. I would guess you are a new Coastie there? We have a charter boat we tie-up in Kodiak.
art

Some of us here think it's bogus for hunters to come up here and shoot moose they are unable to recover until the meat turns rancid. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Maybe we should add Moose to the game that requires a guide.

Ouch!

HAHA, YAH, And some of us think it's wrong to sleep with our sisters.

"Ouch" implys it hurts Sitka, TSK TSK. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If you go back and read I said Accidents happen and I did shoot a moose and didn't recover it till the next day. Although I did cut every last piece up and shipped it out we just couldn't save it. Far better then Some of the Stories I've dealt with on Outfitters. Yep, thats hunting. I'm just happy that I'm the only one in AK that thats ever happened too. I'm sure I am.

"Moosie, Who are you and why does your post elicit such responses?"

Now thats Funny. Good to se it doesn't take much to get the Brady bunch on edge again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Moosie-

I'm relatively new around here and was just curious why people I've developed respect for (even without having met them) would have such a viscerally negative response to your post. Though you chose not to answer my question (and that really is OK, free country and all) your response did actually cover it.

Had a guide been there, his advice may have helped you avoid the situation.

Feel free to ask questions here..these boys are very helpful and knowledgeable.


--Mike

IronBender, I thought your post was in Jest, I didn't know you wanted an Answer, My bad <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Let's just say I have some History with some guys around here. Most of them are good people like myself.....(I'm a great guy, jsut ask me) and some are , well, let's just say not. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm quick to call a Spade a Spade and not afraid to stand up for Friends. I had a buddy that shot a Ram in AK and "Sh....omeone" was quick to call bs on the score. I stood up for my friend and laid $10k as a online bet to back him up. Long story short there was alot that was said and it all went away. Some made amence (SP?) and Some didn't. It's how it happens.

As far as the Moose recovery..... what can I say. Most guys that post on any site has lost an Animal and never recovered it. the difference is I told the Story about it. It's good amo against a guy like me, Because they usually don't have much more. AK hunting is No different then Hunting here in Idaho and I have more Deer and Elk under my belt then most people have had birthdays. It's happens to even the Best of us <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have used outfitters and Will use them again, But I don't like "HAVING" to use one. It's all about money if you look at it, It's not about safety as they say. Thats my opinion and anyone can listen, not listen, or kiss my Hind end !!

It's not just here, I have LOTS of Friends.. Go check out Huntamerica's Alaska section, Thats some Funny chit there !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

http://www.huntamerica.com/wwwthreads/sh...p;page=0#675995

Moosie,

I'll give some clarification here, you might want to check out my response to Lee24 on hunting without a guide for some background.....and then again maybe not.

You made the argument for me (thanks btw) you have much hunting experience and let one moose go bad on you but it's an anomaly. Not sure how many clients are killed by guides (some swear they are gonna die from the hiking) but I'm willing to bet it's damn few. Your moose going bad is a sad waste of a majestic animal and I'm sure you felt the same way.

Two lives were destroyed by a bad accident (can't imagine being the guide and living with what happened, or the family of the loved one lost). Your response to your own post was
" And that's why we shouldn't have to have guides to hunt bears in AK".

I thought it was in poor taste, ill timed and not needed.

I can understand your frustration when you are told you have to have a guide when you may have more hunting experience than the guide assigned to you. That sucks, but I don't know of any better way to protect the bears and or humans. Like alot we have in this country it ain't perfect but it's the best we can do.

I was contacted by an outfitter I worked for a couple of years ago when a petition was going around to include moose as a guided species. I wouldn't sign, I was born poor, love to hunt and hopefully for years to come there will be opportunity for non residents of our state to have a bit of the Alaskan experience on their own. They have documented that a large majority of wanton waste on moose is perpetrated by non resident non guided hunters. I say punish the wrong doers not the whole population.

But bear hunting is different, they have an unreal nose and I can see longer shots and more wounded bears getting away. That's not good for the bears or people that like to just be in the bush here, whether picking berries or hunting. Sheep and goats, if you don't have some mountain experience it can be very dangerous for the novice.

I suppose the ideal would be proficiency tests, but how much is that going to cost when it would have to be run by the state and how many people are going to fudge, by reading instead of having done it. Though the reading is a better start than just having the gumption. My guess is if the state ran a proficiency test, and it was thorough and didn't cost us money,i.e. funded by the hunter. You would be close to paying what you pay now for a guide service. Maybe that's a good idea after all, you don't have to have a guide but you do have to pay for the state to investigate your hunting experience, take a written and physical proficiency test and you can still get the experience solo if you so desire. Plus they can document where and when you will be hunting have you check your meat, trophy and cape at one of the F&G stations and everyone is happy. Maybe it's worth writing our congressmen and seeing if you could make it happen. I'd have no trouble with it. But it might just be cheaper to move to Alaska (grin)

Can't blame you for wanting to do what so many of us here take for granted, but thought when and where you posted about it was ill advised. It got under my skin. Sorry if I came across harsh, but heck you should see me when I'm angry about something. Best to you, hope you get to hunt everything you want and how you want to hunt it. 1ak

P.S. didn't give a flying F*&$ whether it was question or not (grin)

OOps just saw where you placed an online bet for 10K, hell paying 20k for the state to do the background check should be a piece of cake for you. Write, Don Young, Lisa Murkowski and Ted Stevens. Google search will get you all 3 addresses. Good luck, it's an idea with merit I believe, everyone wins.

1200 views and no comments..nothing to say? Bacause it was a ACCIDENT ! Unfortunate for sure, but stuff happens and I don't see the need to assign blame or for gosh sakes debating why guides are or are not needed.

Lefty

"I thought it was in poor taste"

True, and if any of you guys can read (My bad spellnig that is) I said Accidents happen. I'm not saying something liek that couldn't happen to anyone. The same as non of you can't say you'd ever loose an Animal... eh ?

I do have to say that a guy out in front of a Guide with the Guide having a Loaded gun is NOT a good Idea. Maybe thats Some safety I could teach a guide ?

You guys stand up for the Guide and Outfitters because they can TEACH you ? I know alot of guides/outfitters and know there are some Guys I can and HAVE learned alot from, I'm far from knowing or will never know as much as some of them. But standing up for all ofthem ? Come on... Go read the Article :

http://www.adn.com/front/story/6821346p-6715481c.html

Let me give you some Highlights :

"As the bear fled into the brush, Soldotna-based guide David Haeg told his assistant, John Jedlicki, to shoot the animal again."

"THE BEAR FLED"

Now grant it I understand Brush shooting at a Grizz not wanting to go in after it and "PIN IT DOWN". But Come on.....

Want another Quote ?

"It could be Haeg's last hunt, perhaps forever. The longtime pilot and guide is expected to lose his guiding license when he is sentenced Sept. 1 for his part in illegal hunting and trapping activity around McGrath in 2004. "

"is sentenced Sept. 1" "illegal hunting"

Come on..... Let's back that guy up some more !!!

"of shooting nine wolves outside the program boundaries with his gunner, Tony Zellers of Eagle River, and lying about it to state officials."

"and lying about "

I'm sure he could have taught me something.

"a McGrath jury found Haeg guilty on nine counts, including shooting wolves from an airplane, unlawful possession of illegally taken game, unsworn falsification, and trapping wolverines during a closed season."

"guilty on nine counts"

""it's the responsibility of the guide to be in control of the situation," Arno said. "You've got two things to deal with: You've got to keep track of the client, and you've got to keep track of the bear.""

"Kern was squatting about 10 feet in front of Jedlicki as the assistant guide took aim,"

Let me jsut say that as a NON-GUIDE, I would be either next to my hunting partner or not Shoot Over or by him unless the Grizz was "Attacking". Then the thought of shooting by, or over, my hunting partner would come into play.

""It was just a tragedy," Wilkinson said. "

And with that, I agree, I wouldn't wish anyone getting shot, or being the Shooter in any way shape or form. It's not only 2 lives lost but the Family, Kids and Friends have a Part of their life taken away too.

It was an Accident, One that I wish didn't happen, but that being said, I still don't want to "HAVE" to use a guide.

1AKhunter, thanx for the Post, You're a good man.

Thanks Moosie, back atcha!

Moosie-

Thanks for your explanation. Figured there was history I was unaware of.

--Mike