Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Taurus 357 - esp. concealed hammer.....

Yesterday someone got shot dead in my son's apartment complex, in New Orleans, he is fed up w/the low lives in the city wherever he goes, had his car stolen last year and fears being a victim due to the scums that abound.

We decided today he needs a handgun. I am thinking simple, reliable, compact, power to stop quickly.

SO, Taurus 357 concealed hammer.

If someone has a reason why I should re-consider please advise.

Not sure if those models have those 'key safeties' and if so, is there any worry about a malfunction/jam in the action?

Other than that, I think next weekend when I get down there we are going shopping for him so he can have some peace of mind while completing his last 2 years of college there.

Thanks.

The Taurus locks are more positive than the S&W, just unlock it and LEAVE it that way. The gun should have a competent gun smith do an action job on it for ease of shooting and reliability.

Thanks T, had a Tracker 41, got used, never had a problem, good thing, never got a key w/it

Anyone else on Taurus?

Thanks.

I have one of the Taurus .38's, 800 series, I think. It is very light.

Lock has not been an issue.

I bet this piece has been carried 500-600 days in the Houston humidity. I blow it out with an air gun once a week and lube it up with a little Ed's Red.

Taurus makes excellent revolvers, and in common with all small and medium frame revolvers a steady diet of .357 magnum ammo should be avoided. The .38 spl/.357 Mag are tried and true defensive rounds, although neither, when fired from a short barreled revolver, could be reliably characterized as having the ability to quickly stop an assailant.

Were it my son, I would be looking at a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 special and, if finances allowed, I'd add a pair of Crimson Trace grips.

Have a Ruger LCR in 357 and it's quite the handfull to shoot with full house loads. Takes a lot of practice to become proficient with a small 357.

Good stuff, maybe a medium frame 357 or a small frame w/+Ps for control.

A 44 Special might be comforting in the Big Easy w/drug infused elements

What do you guys think of a snub w +P specials? On par w/good 9mm loads in a pocket 9 or not?

You'll find most of the votes in this forum will lean toward the 9mm with a double stack mag, on the theory that your son may find himself up against multiple bad guys at the same time and have a need for more than the five rounds that a S&W snubbie carries.

My personal belief is that if you need more than five rounds of anything, you're probably boned.

But that's just me. I've never shot anybody and I'm mildly drunk at the moment. So, take it for what it's worth.

Say goodnight, Gracie.

- Tom

Tom - I hear you, thing is my son's biggest concern is when going downtown when having to go to the LSU Medical school and passing homeless people etc. He said you walk past ALOT of sketchy people.

I am confident that if he were to be a random potential victim, that it would be a one on one situation, if not at least he might handle 1, 2 or 3 at point blank range and being a former track runner, he can 'Haul Ass' after emptying 5 or 6 rounds

It's not a 'whats the best overall any situation' self defense gun, as much as it's more than likely going to be a 'one guy thug' that is close enough you might stick the muzzle in his gut thing vs. aiming and ever having time to get off more than 2 or 3 rounds. Should he only have a 5 or 6 shooter and more than one person comes along, hopefully they will have enough sense to haul ass after hearing fireworks!

+P is fine in the short guns IMHO and I like revolvers for people just starting out with SD, the auto's take a lot more practice to get good with. Again just MHO.

Hi 65,
I've been keeping up with your story. I have lived on the Northshore all my life. I quit going to NO years ago. Every day I trust my life to two S&W 642 with Crimson Trace lasers. They hide easily in the pockets and come out quick. Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo is the way to go. Also keep a XD 45, with a Crimson Trace, in the car all the time. You can never be too prepared!! Good luck.

I recently bought a Taurus 605 3" .357 and have a few thoughts. This is the sixth .357 I can think of that I've owned. The other guns have been: a heavier framed 6" S&W 686, a 4" GP-100, a 2 1/2" stainless Rossi, and two Scandium S&W 360's.

Generally there has been a gap between owning them and each and every time I try one for the first in awhile, I'm somewhat stunned at the... "obnoxiousness" of the muzzle blast for lack of a better word. The concussion sometimes gives me the sensation that if it were much more, my nose would start to bleed. Maybe not quite that bad, but you get my drift, and not so much with the heavier frame 686 and the 6" barrel, but the rest- yes. I can only imagine what it would be like to fire in close quarters without hearing protection. I find it more annoying than I do the .44 mags, but maybe it's just me. Before someone points this out, Yes, I realize if you need to defend yourself, hearing loss isn't an immediate concern.

Now running .38's and .38 +P's through the same guns, the blast is not bad at all. I also think the 9mm seems more tame than even non-plus P .38's. Funny thing is, when I've run them all through the chronograph, the 9mm is pretty darn close to the .357 ballistcally without the annoying blast and recoil.

As for my Taurus, about 6 months ago I bought a 1911 in .45 and it has been smooth & flawless in performance. While my 605 had been flawless in firing, the empties (factory loads so far) want to stick in the chamber, ejection is iffy, and the action lacks the smoothness of the S&W's, the Ruger, and the Rossi. Double action pull was well off the scale of my Lyman trigger pull gauage. I dry fired it about 8,000 times and it didn't seem to help much. I installed a Wolf service spring pack and it made a HUGE difference in the pull.

As a person who is passionate about guns, with the 3" barrel & stainless steel construction, it conveys nostalgic images of a trail gun to me. For a utilitarion tool, it works just find as is.

To sum it up, I'm not going to disagree with the general concensus here. For a person who buys a gun, maybe shoots a few rounds through it and then puts it away; I'd recommend a revolver, and if I could get a 357 of the same size & weight as a .38, I would.. just because. I'd suggest loading it with a .38 +P instead of a .357 though.

For someone who will take some time to learn a little more about firearms, I'd probably go with a semiauto like a 9mm instead.

No short barreled gun will be pleasant to shoot unless it's a .22 or .32 and even these will be more enjoyable with a 4-inch or longer barrel.

I agree with you that your son is unlikely to have to confront a mob of armed assailants and that if -- God forbid -- he is involved in a shooting it will most likely be a one-on-one situation. While many have posted comments about the theoretical value of 9mm, .357, and .38+P ammo, the fact remains that incapacitation of one's assailant is primarily caused by reducing the flow of oxygenated blood to the brain. The quicker this occurs, the faster the assailant is incapacitated. For this reason a large caliber bullet, like the .44 Spl., is definitely superior to a medium caliber bullet; because the .44 makes a bigger hole exsanguination is far more rapid than with the smaller bullet and the assailant is therefore more apt to be quickly incapacitated.

As far as recoil and muzzle blast are concerned, the Charter Arms Bulldog (.44) has, in my experience, less perceivable recoil than a five-shot, two-inch .357, and certainly is less hard on the ears.

On the street (as opposed to in a chat room) a five-shot, two-inch, .44 caliber revolver will out perform a 5-shot, two-inch, .38/.357, shot for shot, bullet for bullet.

I used to own and carry a Ruger SP101 357Mag with the 2.25" bbl.

I also carried a speedloader with five extra rounds (125gr JHP).

One day a friend and I met up and he was showing me his Glock 19. Height and length were practically the same as the SP101, and it was lighter. With 15 rounds on board, I would not feel the need to carry more ammo unless in a civil disorder type of situation.

When you compare ballistics of a 4" 9mm +P, to a 2.5" 357 revolver, there isn't a whole lot of difference, but the snub 357 will give you more blast, flash, and recoil.

Give some thought to a Glock 19, or Glock 23. Easy to learn, shootable, concealable, reliable, durable, plenty of ammo capacity. Very practical weapon.

I say YES to the Taurus, and NO to .357. In a 2" barrel the .357 loses way too much velocity, recoil is abusive, and muzzle falsh is like a flash/bang grenade. Use Speer Short Barrel loads in .38 Special and you get rid of all that and still have a very effective gun. I love the .357 but it's a piss poor defensive cartridge. All that power just comes with too much baggage. And in a 2" revolver, you get precious little of the power, and even more of the baggage.

I just spent an hour at the range with my new Taurus Model 856. It carries 6 rounds and is roughly the same size as a model 85. The trigger pull was rough, but the stacking was OK. I'm planning on the Wolff Springs kit. Recoil in +P was fine. The only issue I had were two instances where the +P ammo (out of 100 fired)slipped back and wouldn't allow the cylinder to spin freely. That's a bozo no-no in the real world and I need to figure that out (I don't know if it's anammo problem or a gun problem). The gun shot where I aimed it and was accurate out to 40 feet in my local indoor range.

Great info guys thanks. Agree on the +P for many reasons.

Having shot 3 and 4" 357s in K and L frames, the short bbls are loud, yet as above 'getting r done' IF he needs to use it is #1, but controllability cannot be ignored.

Agree the Mag is not fun/efficient in a 2"....

Did research last night on stopping power info, and what I found is that the best of 9mm ammo getting 90% stops which is on par w/45s and 40s, etc. On the 44 Sp I don't see the data showing superiority. No doubt its very good, but I see a human target as soft tissue that will succumb well to fast light HPs that impart shock due to speed/expansion/energy transfer and massive hemorrhaging.

Another good read I found was here:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_48/ai_82551648/?tag=content;col1

Montana - love the 10mm for me and a 45 would be on the table, but for my son I think a 9 or 40 would be best in an auto for recoil, and a 357 Sig has no flies. That said I gave alot of thought to the lower recoil of a 9mm and ammo availability. Never had an interest in the G17 as concealability is key. I looked up the mid sized G19 last night before reading the latest posts by you guys, and thinking it may well be a good option for him.

Considering:

Little experience w/centerfires - though he has shot a 22 handgun, Ruger MK2 a good bit and is a good shot.

Concealability, modest recoil/blast would help in practice and not hurt if needed to use in a PD situation.

SIMPLICITY and DEAD NUTS Reliablity is key also. A revolver or handgun w/o alot of controls is MY thoughts for a good pick for him - no doubt Taurus, SP101, Glock all fit the bill. Me, might spring for a Sig 229, but right now its about my son and trying to see him thru New Orleans for 2 more years.

MM - your spot on as to my latest thinking...if we go that route, will ammo for a 40 be as easy and priced similar as 9mm and will recoil be about the same? He has shot 41s and 44s and I am sure will not be afraid. If he ever does HAVE to use whatever, his biggest issue will be getting his weapon out and firing a shot fast enough and I doubt in an adrenaline charged scenario much else will matter.

My gut wants to say, 'he will be fine no matter what' and that HOPEFULLY he never has to use it, or show it. I am giving him advice to never show it if he does not feel its necessary, but if it is, then be prepared to shoot to kill to save his life.

Likely the most beneficial aspect of him being armed, is feeling a sense of a leveled playing field should he end up a potential victim, his comfort level should improve and allow him to relax more and perhaps focus better on what he needs to do - school and sleep well at night.

Imagine at age 24, having had your car stolen, your friend having 2 brand new motorcycles stolen in a year, having a black thug approach you at a gas pump wanting money and not being armed and saying he will just take your wallete, etc. etc. and to top it all off, someone gets shot dead in your apartment complex, where it ended in the mail room where you get your mail!

Better safe than sorry, and he needs not live in fear.

Anybody else feel free to chime in and I appreciate the experience and thoughts shared by all.

The 40 ammo is a bit more expensive to practice with, but not prohibitively. Last time I was comparing at Walmart the cost of 100 round packs of Win white box was $18/100 for the 9mm 115gr FMJ, and $27/100 for the 40SW 180gr FMJ.

The 40 does have a bit more 'bounce' in it's recoil. Not enough to be intimidating in any way, but recovery time is a tad slower than than with the 9mm. I don't think it's enough of a difference in recovery time to matter in the real world.

A Glock 23 would be a great defensive weapon. If you wanted to you could pick up a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel, and a Glock 19 magazine for cheaper practice. I put a Lone Wolf 9mm barrel in my Glock 22 for that very reason, and to have two same caliber pistols should I ever feel I want to carry a second pistol instead of just a extra magazine,

This is my Glock 22 with the LW 9mm bbl installed, alongside my Glock 17,

I know the Taurus is easier on the wallet but I have heard to many complaints about alot of their guns. I would go with Smith&Wesson J-frame or the ruger SP101.

There is no scientific evidence as to the effectiveness of any caliber concerning "one shot stops"; further, the instantaneous incapacitation of a human from a single gunshot, fired from a handgun, is extremely unlikely even if the central nervous system is traumatically disrupted. Also, the amount of "shock" created by a bullet's passage through soft tissue is negligible in its effect in incapacitating one's assailant. The incapacitation is caused by the fact that the bullet crushes tissue and creates an open wound channel that encourages rapid loss of blood; generally speaking, the bigger the wound channel, the faster blood is lost.

That the reliance on medium caliber, light weight hollow point bullets is not desirable in a defensive shooting situation has been proven, at least to the satisfaction of the majority of law enforcement agencies, by FBI ballistics tests. In 1989 FBI Special Agent Urey W. Patrick (of the FBI Firearms Training Unit at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia) published a paper entitled "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" (available on line via Google) clearly explaining the mechanics of wounding, and what works best to incapacitate an assailant.

Rather than being seduced by on-line charts that are less than accurate, I'd suggest you review Special Agent Patrick's report before making a final decision.

(As an aside, I note that you were unable to find data on the superiority of the .44 Special. I'd suggest, for purposes of comparison, that as there is little practical difference between the .44 Special and .45 Long Colt, that you can use the .45 data as a point of comparison with the 9mm as regards penetration. You might also want to review the Hatcher Scale, which rates the .44 Spl as approximately 50% more effective than the 9mm.)

At the end of the day you will make a decision that may have a profound effect on your son's life. If there is even the remotest possibility that the tools you provide him with to defend his life may be less than 100% effective when the chips are down, then you may wish to re-think your options.