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Who, me??? 
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Regular
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![[Linked Image]](http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/reflex264/grizz.jpg) .454 seems to work pretty good................
![[Linked Image]](http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/reflex264/Hunting/th_PICTURE3.jpg) .264 barrel current number of shots:2122
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Sometimes, there is an exception to the rule. Regarding Colt's 1911 and Grizzly bears .... When I lived in Los Angeles, my wife and I owned a vacation cabin up in the southern Sierra on the western slope. Over the years, I became friends with an older man who lived there with his wife. He was retired. There were a lot of Black bears and Mountain lions around our tiny community at 6,000 feet altitude. He always had a Smith & Wesson 29, 4" barrel, .44 Mag. with him. Once when we were having a beer at his home, talking about the bears that were around, he told me a story. After WW II, he was living in Alaska, cruising timber for one of the big logging companies. He and his wife lived out in the boonies in a small cabin. One morning in 1949, he came out of the cabin to go to his wood pile to stoke his wood stove in the cabin. As he walked near the wood pile, suddenly, without any warning, a large Grizzly charged from behind the wood pile. He immediately pulled a Colt's 1911 Govt. Model .45 ACP from his holster and began firing. At the eighth round, the bear dropped dead at his feet. At that time, it would have been standard for the cartridges to have been the regular 230 grains FMJ. He showed me an old black and white Kodak picture of him kneeling beside the large but dead Grizzly, Govt. Model in hand. The wood pile was directly behind him. I asked him, "Why'd you use a .45 ACP?" He said, "'Cause that's all I had." Simple enough, huh? I will say, however, he had seen a little stress before. He'd been a paratrooper with the famous 101st Div. (Abn.) the "Screaming Eagles," and had jumped into Normandy, jumped into Holland, and had fought at the Battle of the Bulge. As he said, sometimes you just gotta do with as you have. L.W. Great story, well told. I'd swear you could almost make a living writing stories like that. Awesome story
You've got to hand it to a blind prostitute
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The_Real_Hawkeye,
I have never seen a wild griz let alone shot one. However, I do know an adventurer who has. He told me that he'd rather chamber another round in his rifle (.300 WBY) than reach for a handgun were he have to defend himself from a charging griz. But then again, I can see where reaching for a suitable handgun would be the way to go if it I couldn't reload my rifle fast enough.
Take care,
R
Last edited by Raisuli; 10/14/11.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Raisuli, the compelling reason for carrying a handgun for bear defense is for the times when your rifle is no longer a viable option. As in, the bear's already hit you and you're being mauled.
For all other bear defense occasions, it's best to use a suitable long arm.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Hi DocRocket,
I agree, especially using a suitable rifle.
I used to own a 629. I tried becoming proficient with it. The recoil was just unmanageable for me. I shot one full-power .454 Casull. I never fired it again. I know my limitations. Were I to buy a big bore handgun, it would be a .41 Rem Mag. But before I forked out simoleons for one, I'd shoot one a lot to assure I could master it.
I'm looking at a Yellowstone trout trip next summer. If it's a drop camp, I'll take an 870 with slugs. If we go guide route, I hope to God s/he can protect my son and me.
Take care,
R
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Campfire Ranger
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FWIW, the caliber of the handgun you use under such circumstances is less important than having a handgun. If you haven't already done so, look at the Ruger GP100 or S&W M686 in 357 Magnum. These are very manageable handguns and, when stoked with full power .357 Mag loads, would be sufficient for deadly use purposes. A DA handgun is preferable to a SA, as you can use it more effectively one-handed. In a bear attack, one hand may be all you have available.
I know of at least one successful defense with a 357 Mag. I say "at least" because I have only comunicated personally with one of the men I speak of, the other two were second-hand stories. Brain shots killed all 3 bruins.
When I carry my 686 in the field, I load it with my handloaded 180 gr flatnose cast bullets over a moderate charge of H110. This is a much more manageable load, recoil-wise, than a heavier loaded 44 Mag or 45 Colt.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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I have a life long friend who is a commercial Salmon fisherman in Homer. I showed him my shiny model 629 one day and asked about shooting a grizzly with one. He said all his guys, and all the guys he guides with carry Ruger Super Blackhawks. He said one speck of grit in my nice tight double action and I would be bear scat. He called the Super Blackhawk the preferred berry picking gun of Alaska. He also told me that they keep Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge shotguns on board and take them ashore. A 12 gauge slug would seem mo better but I'm sure a nice stiff .44 mag or 6 would have to give you a chance.
"I didn't get the sophisticated gene in this family. I started the sophisticated gene in this family." Willie Robertson
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Were I to buy a big bore handgun, it would be a .41 Rem Mag. But before I forked out simoleons for one, I'd shoot one a lot to assure I could master it.
R 44 = .429 41 = .411 diff = .018" bore Dia you really think that makes a difference?
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Campfire Tracker
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FWIW, the caliber of the handgun you use under such circumstances is less important than having a handgun. If you haven't already done so, look at the Ruger GP100 or S&W M686 in 357 Magnum. These are very manageable handguns and, when stoked with full power .357 Mag loads, would be sufficient for deadly use purposes. A DA handgun is preferable to a SA, as you can use it more effectively one-handed. In a bear attack, one hand may be all you have available.
I know of at least one successful defense with a 357 Mag. I say "at least" because I have only comunicated personally with one of the men I speak of, the other two were second-hand stories. Brain shots killed all 3 bruins.
When I carry my 686 in the field, I load it with my handloaded 180 gr flatnose cast bullets over a moderate charge of H110. This is a much more manageable load, recoil-wise, than a heavier loaded 44 Mag or 45 Colt. I remember our discussing this a long time ago, Doc, yet S&W still hasn't obliged us. I remain convinced that a five-shot .41 Rem Mag on a 4" L-Frame would be an excellent bear gun. Take care, R
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Just imagine a situation where a bear is on you and you are trying to get pepper spray in his face. Uh, okay.
Sure, pepper spray will work, there is enough evidence to prove it. But up close if all hell has broken loose and your last line of defense is pepper spray when a bear is on you, well, kiss your ass goodbye.
I work for a power company and routinely we are "charged" by dogs while out in the field; especially when working in the hood. Just the other day a buddy of mine sprayed a pitbull so much that his head was orange (the dog's face and head, that is). The dog was actually climbing a fence when he let him have it in the eyes, nose and mouth. I mean he hosed him down. It didn't affect him a bit. The dog made it over the fence and came at a clip. Luckily my friend made it to the truck in time (barely) and the dog circled the truck, sneezing and pissing on all four tires. Then the dog chased him for a quarter of a mile.
As an aside, I had a similar situation happen to me once though I did not have any pepper spray at the time. Some dogs are damn good fence climbers and when they are in that mode, believe me, they mean business. They're so pissed that you had better get on down the road.
Again, I'm not saying that pepper spray does not work. There are plenty of instances to prove that it does. However, it does not always work. And if you are surprised by a bear or it is on you before you have a chance to use your rifle or your pepper spray, the one and only thing that might save your ass is the revolver at which so many of you have scoffed. If you don't feel proficient enough to use one, don't do it. If you do, have at it.
Landrum
Last edited by Landrum; 10/14/11.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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After reading your post I guess I'll add my .02 on pepper spray. I doubt it's effectiveness as well on a pizzed off bear.
I remember back in the day (Vietnam Era) when tear gas was the weapon of choice for riot control and training in the field. The first time I was hosed with the stuff (I think it was CS gas IIRC) without a gas mask I was in agony. But as time went on, the more and more I was exposed to the gas the more the gas didn't bother me much. It was just like having a lite case of hay fever. After a while, in the field, I never bother to don a gas mask.
I noticed that the professional rioters weren't bother by it much either because they had been exposed to the gas so much they had built up a type of immunity to the gas.
I wonder if bears who have been sprayed by the pepper spray so much have built up an immunity as well? I wonder if the spray has much effect on a really pizzed off bear? Most of the studies I've seen on how wonderfull the spray is, the studies have been done with captured bears in cages.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire 'Bwana
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He said one speck of grit in my nice tight double action and I would be bear scat. I'm sure that would be shocking news to the millions of police and military who have carried DA Smiths through all kinds of nasty chit and still had them go bang when the trigger was pulled.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Steve,
I once carried an S&W 5906. It was one of the most reliable handguns I have ever carried. I trusted it more than any revolver I have ever carried. It's only negative was its caliber.
Before we were issued the 5906, the agency that employed me torture tested it. A copy was fired 10,000 times w/o cleaning. It never flinched.
Were I to own a 9MM, it would be a 5906.
Take care,
R
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derby_dude,
I, too, was exposed to tear gas. Like you, I wasn't inconvenienced by it to any appreciable degree. In contrast, the most miserable training I have ever had to endure was pepper spray. It immediately incapacitated me, and I was totally helpless for at least a half-hour.
It becomes dicey when trying to extrapolate effects of pepper spray on humans to animals. I once pepper sprayed a threatening dog. It stopped its advance, but I can't tell you that it did so because of the pepper spray because it didn't seen to bother it. It could be argued that it stopped its advance because it was confused by the stream of fluid to its eyes. Either way, it gave me time to escape w/o being bitten.
Were I in wilderness and the threat were bear, I'd want a suitable gun.
Take care,
R
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One of the challenges with bear sprays is that wind or other circumstances can cause it to be redirected to the person spraying. That is what happened to a friend of mine that was mauled by a grizzly outside of Libby Montana.
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He said all his guys, and all the guys he guides with carry Ruger Super Blackhawks. He said one speck of grit in my nice tight double action and I would be bear scat. He called the Super Blackhawk the preferred berry picking gun of Alaska. He also told me that they keep Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge shotguns on board and take them ashore. A 12 gauge slug would seem mo better but I'm sure a nice stiff .44 mag or 6 would have to give you a chance. That's rich. It's hard to beat the reliabilty of a DA revolver.
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Campfire Ranger
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He said all his guys, and all the guys he guides with carry Ruger Super Blackhawks. He said one speck of grit in my nice tight double action and I would be bear scat. He called the Super Blackhawk the preferred berry picking gun of Alaska. He also told me that they keep Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge shotguns on board and take them ashore. A 12 gauge slug would seem mo better but I'm sure a nice stiff .44 mag or 6 would have to give you a chance. That's rich. It's hard to beat the reliabilty of a DA revolver. I thought that was kind of rich too. I remember listening in one time to this kumquat teaching a CCW class go on and on how pistols(semiautos) were more reliable than double action revolvers. Now having fired both for about 50 years the only time i can remember a mallfunction with a revolver, very rare, was when the ejector rod loosened up, or something getting lodged under the ejector star, also very rare if you clean the gun once in a while. Let me count the ways guns can malfunction. and while i have never popped a bear with a shotgun slug, i think it would make a LOT of difference what kind of slug it is. Now i know a 12guage slug is moving about like a commercial loaded .45/70, but it ain't no .45/70 in bullet construction. And i was just rattling my tooth filings yesterday with my guide gun with 405 grainers at 1700fps
Last edited by RoninPhx; 10/17/11.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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In severe conditions the auto is more reliable than the DA revolver. But for most things, the DA revolver tends to be more reliable. Get a DA revolver near sand and things stop happening pretty quick. But for just honest carry, with reasonable maintenance, the DA revolver will be much more reliable than the auto.
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I think my days of crawling around in the mud as well as the older people this guy was talking to are long gone.
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