Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Taurus 357 - esp. concealed hammer.....

After reading that report, I'm inclined to use hot FMJ loads in all my guns from now on.....

Nothing is a 100% guarantee. All handguns are marginal manstoppers.

Ammo has come a ways since 1989.

Do you REALLY think if you shot a guy one time, that you stand a 90% chance of him ending all hostility right there? Thos statistics are HUGELY flawed, and downright dangerous. Take it from someone who has treated countless gun shot victims, the vast majority of them who have been shot only once have a LOT of fight left in them. Most who are �stopped� are that way because they have been shot multiple times; and I don�t mean 2�I�m talking 6 or 7. Handguns are horribly under-powered, and those so called �one shot stop� statistics are the worst example of �science� ever perpetrated on the shooting public.

Come on, if you can center-punch a deer with a .44 mag and still have to track it 65 yards; do you really think a guy hit with a 9mm or .45 ACP is going to drop in his tracks?

The standard rule and statistic I have learned and used is this....80% of those shot with a handgun survive. That is a hard fact. The other side of that coin is that 80% of those who are shot with a shotgun (we are talking defensive situations here not a hunting incedent with politicians) 80% die. Now we are talking deaths here not stops...two very differnt things...I have seen some guys get a weak 22 in the thigh and thats it..fights over....I have seen a gun take 8 hits with a 9mm (out of an MP-5) and he was still coming...it took a head shot with a .45acp to end the fight and his life.....shot placement is everything and training, training and more training...then even more training is what will make the differnce between you surviving and not....the handgun is only a bullet delivery device..nothing more nothing less.....your the one who needs to get it to the right address..without that skill you can come out in 2nd Place.....not where you want to be

Ohhhh and I like the Taurus revolvers....in a short barrel I would use the good .38spl defense loads made for short barrels....I would only use .357 in 4" and up barrels....love the bobbed or conceled hammer guns....doesnt snag your shirt

True, on all counts. While munitions companies now offer a wider range of off-the-shelf ammo than they did two decades ago, the basic laws of physics & wound ballistics remain the same. If those concerned with defensive shooting were to follow the "light fast bullet" theory to its (illogical) conclusion, they'd be left with the belief that if you took a .50 caliber case and necked it down far enough to hold the sharp end of a safety pin you could use the resultant round to vaporize a whale with a single shot; Grizzly Bears would burst into flames, and miscreants would suffer no injury at all because the projectile would cauterize the wound as it passed through their body.

In the real world, given two bullets of identical design, both 9mms, the larger and heavier bullet will inevitably show superior defensive performance characteristics. By increasing the diameter of the bullet-- moving up from 9mm to .45 caliber-- you greatly magnify the effectiveness of the bullet, which is why Hatcher rated the .44 Special as 50% more effective than the 9mm.

Hi James,

Have you had the experience of +P 38s sliding out of the cylinder and causing any of your Taurus' to "Stick?" I had two stuck cylinder experiences out of 100 rounds of +P ammo in my brand new M856 this past Sunday.

JJ

Good info guys, thanks. No doubt an ideal sidearm would fire 12 Gauge shotshells A derringer perhaps, good for 2 attackers! LOL.

Old Writer, in the past, I always felt a 9 was on the weaker end for defense, so wanted to research current ammo and stats. Seems some reports I read showed 147s not doing as well as 115 +P ammo....

Statistics have to be looked at and analyzed in many ways often to get all the facts. No doubt a needle at warp speed would not be the end all in a cartridge, but take for example deer, sometimes light bullets that expand rapidly will drop deer faster than bullets that punch thru w/less damage via wound cavity. Hence my thoughts on why something like a 125gr 357 shows up to 97% one stop.

No doubt, one stop hit does not = DRT

On the need for multiple hits, case in point, the person shot dead last Friday in my son's apartment made it from the 5th to 1st floor before he was finished off. No idea as to caliber/ammo, but multiple shots fired.

I guess the best thing is if you have to shoot, empty your gun and run

Hopefully whatever my son does carry, he will never have to draw down on anyone, that's the BEST scenario given a choice.

try several calibers and actions ( rent 'em and shoot a box through anything before you commit )
What he can hit with is the most important thing.
Some pistols just seem to instictivly hit everything, for different folks.

Remember a hit with a .380 always works better than a miss with a .45!

I've treated a lot of wounds, and most who are shot with a handgun DO survive (at least my patients did). In 16 years as a Paramedic in a large city, I have NEVER treated a shotgun buckshot wound, never. Every one was declared dead on scene, and I'm here to tell you; we got there fast. Birdshot...I can't think of a single fatality from birdshot, ever.

I've had two patients who survived contact and near contact distance with .45 ACP. One bounced off the skull, and one was under the chin with a Glaser Safety Slug and the shot never reached the brain (but his face was a puffed out grotesque, disgusting blob, and both eyes were taken out).

From the rib cage up, with a high powered rifle, I've never treated one; they all died very quickly (although some took multiple hits). Even had a guy who had a rifle bullet skip off his skull and he still died.

When you've been where the bullets fly, you'll see that handguns just aren't all that impressive. And bitchen bullets don't make much difference either. It's 100% about shot placement, and generally speaking, multiple shots (if you want things to come to a stop).

Actually, my observations and that of ER docs and Surgeon's I used to cavort with don't hold that to be true. From 9mm on up, most handguns tend to do almost identical damage when using JHP's. With non expanding bullets, most damage is done by penetration, and obviously larger bullets will create larger holes while generally penetrating just as much (although in FMJ, not much out-penetrates a 124gr 9mm).

I agree with this. Might want to look for a used 2 inch K frame .38 (M10) or its Taurus equivalent. Bigger and heavier, but carries 6 rounds, easier to shoot and +P durable.

Expat

No I have not had that issue....Wait....what do mean by "Sliding out of the cylinder"?????

He means the bullets backing out of the cases, like an inertia bullet puller. Happens often when using stout loads in lightweight guns. The gun comes back in the hand so fast, the bullet in the case slides past its crimp, sometimes enough that it sticks out past the cylinder, and ties up the gun...Bad Ju-Ju in a gunfight. Used to be a real problem in LW J frames with +p ammo back in the day, but not a common problem anymore in facory ammo. My preference is for Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel +P's in my J frames; I've never had one come out.

Ohhhh I only shoot factory +P ammo so I have never had that issue....makes sense now

I used to have that issue with factory ammo a lot when I carried my 442. Made me a bit paranoid. Finally, I found the Winchester 158 grain SWCHP would hold solid, and although it would NEVER expand out of a 2" barrel (not sure if that's still the case, but it was in the early '90's), at the end of the day, it was still a 158 grain SWC so it was my prefered load.

Hey Guys,

I actually meant the entire cartridge backing out of the cylinder, not the bullet becoming unseated from the crimp. That's what I assumed happened. I've heard of the bullet-release problem with lightweight guns, but this is a steel (21oz?) revolver. I have to check again, but my thought was that the entire cartridge backed out and caught on something. I was in a dingy indoor rang with poor visibility and didn't consider Kevin's thought. Since if I just rocked the cylinder back and forth quickly, I was able to fire the next round, I assumed what I did. Maybe I misdiagnosed this one.

JJ

I was using factory 125gr +P ammo, but not the Speer Gold Dot for short barrels, just "plain" Winchester (white box) 38 +ps.

I hear that handguns are far more effective stoppers of grizzly bears.

Presumably this happened with the same two chambers? If so, then you might want to check if those chambers are with factory specs. If not, then it sounds like it may have been the primers backing out of the cartridge causing the gun to bind up.