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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Good book. Have you read Comanches The Destruction of a People by T R Fehrenbach? Another very good read.
"I find this book a refreshing and thorough treatment of a historical period within the lifespans of many of our great-great-grandfathers that bordered on, in some ways, Jurassic Park ..."
It wasn't really that far back. I knew a man who killed two Comanches who tried for him west of what is now Crosbyton Texas. He was sage hen hunting when they jumped him. Read the old newspaper account of it and listened to him tell the story.
BCR damn, Ranger, now you're gonna set off Birdwatcher.....he and I had an extended PM exchange where he vented his issues with Fehrenbach. I liked his book and really enjoyed Empire of the Summer Moon. My brother majored in history at U of H and got an M.A. at Tulane, before he decided that he needed to make a living and went to law school. He probably has an even dimmer view of Fehrenbach than Birdy does. I have to admit that there are better books about Indians in Texas, but you kind of have to read Fehrenbach just to get full range of the historical treatments. Kind of like reading Walter Prescott Webb's history of the Texas Rangers--good reading when you're a kid, but somewhat lacking in objectivity.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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The atrocities that each warring faction committed upon the other make some of our gang POS' seem like a bunch of puzzies. That ain't no shhit, and if anybody really studies the indigenous people they know that the Europeans were welcomed as a source of food, slaves and novelty. We didn't work out to good for them though...much like African slaves.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Just ordered the book, found new hardback on Alibris, $17.00 with shipping. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Just downloaded to my NookColor for $9.99. With Oprah gone, I really need the Campfire for book recommendations.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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TR Farenbach also wrote an excellent book about the Comanches titled, Comanches: The History of a People.
Expat
"There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men." - Robert Heinlein
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Just finished it two days ago. Very good work and tells the story with no punches pulled on either side.
Jim
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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*Hard to put down,wasn't it doctor?
Indeed it was. Gwynne is a gifted writer and thorough researcher. The atrocities that each warring faction committed upon the other make some of our gang POS' seem like a bunch of puzzies. The only people I know of, historically speaking, with greater blood-thirst than the Plains Indians of the 19th century were the caucasian peoples of Europe from which most of us descend.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,810 Likes: 11 |
if you study the period Doc, 'blood thirst' was pretty common world wide at that point, and really, during the entire history of man kind. Check the Balkins before and after WW I, Africa, Asia. We are a cruel, and mean species.
Sam......
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Campfire Outfitter
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As in, Buy and read the Sumbitch!
With a recommendation like that, I'll download it tonight. I'm such a cheap old bastard, that I'll get it from the public library.
"wanna hear God laugh? Tell Him you have complete control now!"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2002
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Thanks for the tip Doc. I will pick it up. Always like reading about both sides of the story. Another great read is Indeh by Eve Ball. Eve Ball taught and lived on the Mecalero Reservation. She was able to interview many of the older Apache men including some Chihuachuas. http://books.google.com/books?id=q7...&q=indah%20apache%20book&f=false
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,652 Likes: 8 |
My youngest son is a historic archaeologist here, working for a local archaeological contracting firm. Spanish and French colonial history were always our two passions. The most difficult thing to get anyone in this state to accept is the fact that the history of Texas did not begin in 1836.
I had heard of this book, then I completely forgot about it after retirement! Now I have the chance to make up! Thanks for the reminder Doc! Did it happen to mention the Comanche delegation that visited Natchitoches Louisiana circa 1770-ish??? At that time they returned the Spanish cannon they captured at the Taovaya village fight on the Red River, along with the help of allied Wichitas and Taovaya's in 1759!!!
One of the coolests quotes on this fight written by the Spanish commander, who led this expedition against the "Nortenos", was a Comanche "Chieftan" on horseback firing fusils, with two runners along side constantly reloading his "French" fusils so he never had an empty!
Kaywoodie
Last edited by kaywoodie; 08/10/11.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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As in, Buy and read the Sumbitch!
With a recommendation like that, I'll download it tonight. I finished it last week. It was enjoyable although I have a very hard time reading parts of any work dealing with torture and gang rape. Unlike the wartime situation where groups of people go away and do tragic stuff, it's hard for me to get my head around the idea that people can flip in and out of that mindset and be violent and ruthless on an out-of-town business trip and transition to being a family and civic minded guy the rest of the time. (Can you imagine that husband-wife pillow talk?????) While on the topic of the end of an era, I immediately segued into Mark Steyn's "After America: Get Ready For Armageddon." I haven't finished it, but it is equally sobering.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Campfire Outfitter
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I finished it, and my wife is now reading it.
Thanks for the tip, Doc.
Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm about a third of the way through it. It's a good one. He says that Texas volunteers "were not only not scared of Indians but actually 'liked' hunting them down and killing them"! It's a great history book.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I mentioned "Empire of the Summer Moon" in this forum some months ago and while it was an interesting read, I thought there was a goodly portion of revisionist history that I would expect from a born and bred New Yorker who lives in Austin.
While extensively researched, his citations didn't always match his conclusions. Or if they did it was only a partial match. Nonetheless, as I said, it was an interesting read. Many will enjoy it.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683 |
just finished Blood and Thunder about Kit Carson and primarily the Navajo people, always looking for another good read.
really appreciate when you guys share your good finds. Thank you.
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Terry sent me his copy, and I THOROUGHLY enjoyed it !
GREAT read.
GTC
Last edited by crossfireoops; 10/08/11.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm in the middle of it right now, it is fascinating.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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The Comanches played hell with the Mexicans, stealing livestock and people. The Spaniards welcomed the Texicans as a buffer zone.
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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Campfire Regular
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Another book that i didn't see mention here is Los Comanches - the Horse People 1751-1845 authored by Stanley Noyes. An excellent read - i finished it and then re-read it.
I haven't read anything recently that really captured my mind.......i will be seeking out the titles mentioned here. Thanx.
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