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[quote=GeauxLSU]Threads like this are great to expose the socialist underbelly of 'conservatives'. Truly telling.
MacLorry, since math seems to be an issue in this thread, let's start from scratch. You sir have just been elected president.... scratch that.. appointed king! You have a clean slate and unbridled power to inflict your will. What would you do sir, in regards to tax policy, to your subjects that you would then proclaim 'fair' or 'right' or whatever other term you feel adequate to desribe the new found panacea?
[/quote
You said that if I gave you an example you would run the numbers for how much more or less tax they would pay under Cain's plan. Well I gave you the retired couple example.
It was your challenge, so where are the numbers you promised? Once we get those we may move on to the "what would you do" topic.
]Hopefully you got your answer. Mythical couple paying zero goes to paying 9% on taxable earnings and 9% on taxable purchases. Ok, so the Ryan plan is what King Lorry with unlimited power would implement? Really? You can do ANYTHING, you are king, and that's what you choose? Ok, you concede that Cain's plan would raise taxes on what you call the mythical couple, but they are not so mythical, it's virtually all retired folks who don't have a high taxable income. Once retired folks understand this, Cain's on his way out. I want to see him go before it's a choice between Cain and Obama, otherwise, Obama gets a second term. Is that what you want? Like your hero Cain stated, you surround yourself with the best people in each area. Paul Ryan has a much better plan being it's actually doable and it gets us on the right track to growing the economy and solving the debt problem. Is Paul Ryan running for president? If 999 won't pass then fine, Ryan can get his plan passed in the Cain adminstration so you'll be happy. If you are suggesting (which apparently you are) that retired folks will vote for Obama (because of 999) despite what has happened to their retirement savings, 401's, and home values, (aka the inheritence many planned to leave to their kids) over Cain... well sir.... we just have a different level of confidence in the intelligence of retired Americans. I will admit, you as a retired American (I think you said?) have tempered that faith I have in my fellow Americans one generation up. Very thankful for the greater number of other retired Americans in this thread who have clearly shown a POV devoid of short sightedness or self centered concerns. I'm guessing they'll be voting in November too in larger numbers than the opposing AARP members. Once again you're jumping to the conclusions that Cain's plan would get the economy growing. There is absolutely zero evidence to back that up, so there's no help for lost retirement savings, 401's, and home values. All that's for sure is that most retired folks will face a tax increase under Cain's plan and those not falling for the hope and change shtick again won't vote for Cain. BTW, there's no death tax on estates of less than 5 million, so folks with that kind of money can do like Steve Jobs did and transfer their money to a trust that can then give it to their children with no death tax. Smart guy that Steve Jobs.
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A balanced budget amendment.If we had THAT , taxes and spending would sort itself out.
It works in the states.
Of course, that's Perry's position so it obviously ain't worth a damn in some minds for that reason alone.
FWIW,a good dog don't care who owns him,and a good idea don't care who has it.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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BTW, there's no death tax on estates of less than 5 million, so folks with that kind of money can do like Steve Jobs did and transfer their money to a trust that can then give it to their children with no death tax. Smart guy that Steve Jobs.
You miss the point. I never mentioned 'death tax'. I meant, the vast majority of retired American's next worth has plummented under this adminstration so they will have far less to leave as inheritance. I would hope hte vast majority of retired Americans (socialists not withstanding) are looking forward to President's Obama immediate unemployment.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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A balanced budget amendment.If we had THAT , taxes and spending would sort itself out.
It works in the states.
Of course, that's Perry's position so it obviously ain't worth a damn in some minds for that reason alone.
FWIW,a good dog don't care who owns him,and a good idea don't care who has it. Which candidate or rational thinking American is NOT in favor of a balanced budget amendment?
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Excuse me for interfering with the numbers-crunching , but if 999 is such a good deal , why does Cain have to be president to make it work?
He doesn't of course. But it would likely take a president to get the public behind it and shame Congress into enacting it.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Again I ask. If this is wrong what is the right answer. The focus needs to be on creating jobs and getting the economy rolling again. If tax increases are needed to bring the deficit monster under control then that burden needs to shared by everyone, not just shifted from one economic class to another.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence". John Adams
"A dishonest man can always be trusted to be dishonest". Captain Jack Sparrow
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What are these "Empowerment Zones" that he talks about? It says if you live/work in them you get some sort of tax break. AMH, The only example I've heard him mention was Detroit. I think 'empowerment zones' are a very slippery slope but he did mention they'd be temporary which, like most things, is founded in logic and good intentions. But when logic and good intentions hit D.C. they tend to get mutated.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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I think your right with the slippery slope comment, sounds like an area where "welfare recipients" are known to exist, if you know what I mean.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
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I will admit to not knowing everything about 999 like others claim to. I do like the idea of a fair tax but, If everything is a simple 9% minus a few exemptions, like charitable contributions, what will be the snow ball effect of this? If I am reading things right I would have no reason to use a tax preparer or advise a tax lawyer any longer correct? There would not need to be half of the people now working for the IRS (this would be a plus).
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BTW, there's no death tax on estates of less than 5 million, so folks with that kind of money can do like Steve Jobs did and transfer their money to a trust that can then give it to their children with no death tax. Smart guy that Steve Jobs.
You miss the point. I never mentioned 'death tax'. I meant, the vast majority of retired American's next worth has plummented under this adminstration so they will have far less to leave as inheritance. I would hope hte vast majority of retired Americans (socialists not withstanding) are looking forward to President's Obama immediate unemployment. I also hope Obama is a 1 termer, but the way to ensure he wins a second term is to put him up against a guy who's going to raise taxes on the middle class and retired folks. It will be a landslide victory for Obama, so much so that he'll claim a mandate to screw up the economy even more.
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this 999 stuff is a pipe dream guys. there is no way it would get past both houses because it would mean the end of the IRS as we know it and they will not do that to their own. it sounds good (i suppose) on paper but it won't happen. and cain is so revolutionary in his thinking, for lack of a better term, that if he was somehow elected, none of his ideas would pass. these crooks in washington will not eat their own face. like it or not, we are in for the SOS for the forseeable future. no miracles, just more BS government style. hang onto your hats and try to save your money.
My diploma is a DD214
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A balanced budget amendment.If we had THAT , taxes and spending would sort itself out.
It works in the states.
Of course, that's Perry's position so it obviously ain't worth a damn in some minds for that reason alone.
FWIW,a good dog don't care who owns him,and a good idea don't care who has it. Which candidate or rational thinking American is NOT in favor of a balanced budget amendment? I don't know.I DO know the one who has emphasized it and made it central to his economic plan.Of course , he has also said that S.S. is unsustainable as currently structured , and that Ben Bernanke wouldn't be treated nice in Texas. Just another RINO in other words.The ones who avoid straight talk,you know.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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I think your right with the slippery slope comment, sounds like an area where "welfare recipients" are known to exist, if you know what I mean. The real issue is preferential tax treatment for 'impoverished areas' should simply be left to the states and municipalities to address. As a Georgian, why should I have to pay to help Detroit? And vice versa. But again, nobody has the perfect solution and no candidate is perfect. In balance, Mr. Cain, and his plans in balance are ahead of the pack IMO.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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A balanced budget amendment.If we had THAT , taxes and spending would sort itself out.
It works in the states.
Of course, that's Perry's position so it obviously ain't worth a damn in some minds for that reason alone.
FWIW,a good dog don't care who owns him,and a good idea don't care who has it. Which candidate or rational thinking American is NOT in favor of a balanced budget amendment? I don't know.I DO know the one who has emphasized it and made it central to his economic plan.Of course , he has also said that S.S. is unsustainable as currently structured , and that Ben Bernanke wouldn't be treated nice in Texas. Just another RINO in other words.The ones who avoid straight talk,you know. Cur, with the possible exception of Romney (and that's probably unfair to him) they've all said basically the same thing.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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I will admit to not knowing everything about 999 like others claim to. I do like the idea of a fair tax but, If everything is a simple 9% minus a few exemptions, like charitable contributions, what will be the snow ball effect of this? If I am reading things right I would have no reason to use a tax preparer or advise a tax lawyer any longer correct? There would not need to be half of the people now working for the IRS (this would be a plus). Correct. Funny thing is, I admitted defeat about 7 or so years ago (maybe more) and started using a CPA to do my taxes. She has told me uneqivocably that she supports a flat income tax knowing full well it would end her career. 
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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I also hope Obama is a 1 termer, but the way to ensure he wins a second term is to put him up against a guy who's going to raise taxes on the middle class and retired folks. It will be a landslide victory for Obama, so much so that he'll claim a mandate to screw up the economy even more.
Hope and $5 will get you something to drink at Starbucks (I guess, never been in one). So what are you going to do if Cain wins the nomination?
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Cur, with the possible exception of Romney (and that's probably unfair to him) they've all said basically the same thing.
And THEY have been saying it for a long time.
Perry make's it the centerpiece of his economic platform and pledges to introduce legislation- THAT WILL PASS- to achieve it.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Cur, with the possible exception of Romney (and that's probably unfair to him) they've all said basically the same thing.
And THEY have been saying it for a long time.
Perry make's it the centerpiece of his economic platform and pledges to introduce legislation- THAT WILL PASS- to achieve it. Surely you are not suggesting he is the only one that will support a BBA? Or are you suggesting he is the only one that can make it happen by some sheer force of will?
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Will he push through a BBA before or after he gives universal amnesty?
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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I will admit to not knowing everything about 999 like others claim to. I do like the idea of a fair tax but, If everything is a simple 9% minus a few exemptions, like charitable contributions, what will be the snow ball effect of this? If I am reading things right I would have no reason to use a tax preparer or advise a tax lawyer any longer correct? There would not need to be half of the people now working for the IRS (this would be a plus). Correct. Funny thing is, I admitted defeat about 7 or so years ago (maybe more) and started using a CPA to do my taxes. She has told me uneqivocably that she supports a flat income tax knowing full well it would end her career. I'm not so sure about that. Even the 999 plan calls for an "income" tax. At least in the case of businesses, this would likely be net income, not gross income (i.e. gross receipts). Determining what is the "net income" to which the 9% tax rate is applied would leave plenty of work for the CPAs and attorneys.
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