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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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People with high income may spend a smaller amount of their gross, but they still spend more and pay more sales tax than poor folks. I guess that makes them superior. One family makes 50K a year and spends every bit of it to live. Another makes a million a year but only spends 10% of it to live...but it's OK...they're superior because they spent a hundred thousand, whereas the "poor folks" only spent 50K. The fact that it took every bit of it just for the poor folks to live is irrelevant... to some. Why should one man pay one red cent more (percentage wise) than another man? The view is that nobody generates wealth in isolation from the system in which they do business. For example...Wall Street tycoons who make many tens of millions of dollars per year have benefitted from a system that lots of poor kids have given their lives defending, and that lots of other hardworking, less fortunate folks helped to build. The view is that the progressive income tax is a means where those who have benefitted the most from the system...a system they didn't create on their own, that others also worked hard to build, and in many instances even gave their lives to defend...pay more percentage wise to support that system.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Tracker
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I am all for shifting part of the tax burden to a national sales tax. It's the only way you are going to get the 14 million beaners and the country's untaxed scum to share in the tax burden. That is absolutely the plus and should not be dismissed. But then the "poor" will begin the wailing and gnashing of teeth. The biggest reason 999 gets blasted by the media, despite their wailing about "the poor" is absolutely they know it neuters their voting block of political clout. They will not sit idly by. The heat on Mr. Cain hasn't even begun. Given the polls over the last 2 days, he's about to find out though....
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Tracker
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The view is that nobody generates wealth in isolation from the system in which they do business. For example...Wall Street tycoons who make many tens of millions of dollars per year having benefitted from the system that lots of poor kids have given their lives defending, and that lot of other hardworking, less fortunate folks helped to build. The view is that the progressive income tax is a means where those who have benefitted the most from the system...a system they didn't create on their own, that others also worked hard to build, and in many instances even gave their lives to defend...pay more percentage wise to support that system.
And that view assumes one man has more 'access' to the system than another man and therefore should pay for that 'extra access'. Preposterous. Let's take an extreme example. Let's say a black man... who is born into poverty.... to uneducated parents... heck let's make the dad a janitor and the mother... I don't know... heck let's make her a maid. Yeah, that should do. That poor kid definitely doesn't have 'access' to the same 'system' you or I have (assuming you don't meet the just mentioned criteria). How in the world is that poor sap ever going to get ahead? Oh.... wait a minute...... http://www.hermancain.com/about
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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His poor parents have to pay more to feed their son,however. Maybe this is where that cloudy "Empowerment Zone" comes in. There still has to be entitlements and bennies,of course.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The view is that nobody generates wealth in isolation from the system in which they do business. For example...Wall Street tycoons who make many tens of millions of dollars per year having benefitted from the system that lots of poor kids have given their lives defending, and that lot of other hardworking, less fortunate folks helped to build. The view is that the progressive income tax is a means where those who have benefitted the most from the system...a system they didn't create on their own, that others also worked hard to build, and in many instances even gave their lives to defend...pay more percentage wise to support that system.
And that view assumes one man has more 'access' to the system than another man and therefore should pay for that 'extra access'. Preposterous. Let's take an extreme example. Let's say a black man... who is born into poverty.... to uneducated parents... heck let's make the dad a janitor and the mother... I don't know... heck let's make her a maid. Yeah, that should do. That poor kid definitely doesn't have 'access' to the same 'system' you or I have (assuming you don't meet the just mentioned criteria). How in the world is that poor sap ever going to get ahead? Oh.... wait a minute...... http://www.hermancain.com/about You're right in that it's an "extreme" example. Certainly the exception rather than the rule. Millions of Americans will never, never be able to accomplish what your "extreme" example has...or even what many of us have...through no fault of their own. They work at Wal-Mart, Mazzio's, McDonald's, Best Buy, and other similar jobs because that's their station in life. They don't have the cognition, means (financial or otherwise), or ability (for many reasons that aren't their fault), or just plain good fortune to be upwardly moble to the degree that they can accomplish what your "extreme example" did...or even what many of us have. But they work hard at the jobs that they do have nonetheless. They're dedicated, work 40 hours a week (often more), and do the best they can...like all the rest of us do. I'm not talking about welfare leeches who choose not to work...I'm talking about millions of hard working people in this country who simply don't, and won't, accomplish what Herman Cain, or many of us, have. Some who have accomplished more than these unfortunate folks mentioned above, view themselves as being superior...when in fact, even though it required hard work and dedication (and the folks I've mentioned above also work hard and are dedicated), they should view themselves as being blessed.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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They seem to equate a barrel of oil to 42 gallons of gasoline for taxing purposes. "Given the differences I took a look at what the average barrel of oil produces. American Petroleum Institute reports that 1 barrel of oil produced 19.4 gallons of gasoline per barrel based on average yields for U.S. refineries in 2000." The increase in gasoline price would be double what they project.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You're right in that it's an "extreme" example. Certainly the exception rather than the rule. Millions of Americans will never, never be able to accomplish what your "extreme" example has...or even what many of us have...through no fault of their own. They work at Wal-Mart, Mazzio's, McDonald's, Best Buy, and other similar jobs because that's their station in life. They don't have the cognition, means (financial or otherwise), or ability (for many reasons that aren't their fault), or just plain good fortune to be upwardly moble to the degree that they can accomplish what your "extreme example" did...or even what many of us have. But they work hard at the jobs that they do have nonetheless. They're dedicated, work 40 hours a week (often more), and do the best they can...like all the rest of us do. I'm not talking about welfare leeches who choose not to work...I'm talking about millions of hard working people in this country who simply don't, and won't, accomplish what Herman Cain, or many of us, have. Some who have accomplished more than these unfortunate folks mentioned above, view themselves as being superior...when in fact, even though it required hard work and dedication (and the folks I've mentioned above also work hard and are dedicated), they should view themselves as being blessed.
I guess I simply don't share your pessimistic view or generalization as to how heartless or 'arrogant' succesful (and almost always very hard working) people are. I've had the pleasure to meet many and never ONCE did I feel resentful of what they have. I have actually marveled at how generous some are and do tinge a bit wishing I could afford to be as philanthropic but thankfully that just drives me a bit. Did I meet any arrogant jerks? Sure. Have I met any arrogant entitlement jerks? Sure. Have I met any 'hard working paycheck to paycheck folks that are jerks? Sure. It's almost like ... people are people.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You're right in that it's an "extreme" example. Certainly the exception rather than the rule. Millions of Americans will never, never be able to accomplish what your "extreme" example has...or even what many of us have...through no fault of their own. They work at Wal-Mart, Mazzio's, McDonald's, Best Buy, and other similar jobs because that's their station in life. They don't have the cognition, means (financial or otherwise), or ability (for many reasons that aren't their fault), or just plain good fortune to be upwardly moble to the degree that they can accomplish what your "extreme example" did...or even what many of us have. But they work hard at the jobs that they do have nonetheless. They're dedicated, work 40 hours a week (often more), and do the best they can...like all the rest of us do. I'm not talking about welfare leeches who choose not to work...I'm talking about millions of hard working people in this country who simply don't, and won't, accomplish what Herman Cain, or many of us, have. 'SOME' who have accomplished more than these unfortunate folks mentioned above, view themselves as being superior...when in fact, even though it required hard work and dedication (and the folks I've mentioned above also work hard and are dedicated), they should view themselves as being blessed.
I guess I simply don't share your pessimistic view or generalization as to how heartless or 'arrogant' succesful (and almost always very hard working) people are. I've had the pleasure to meet many and never ONCE did I feel resentful of what they have. I have actually marveled at how generous some are and do tinge a bit wishing I could afford to be as philanthropic but thankfully that just drives me a bit. Did I meet any arrogant jerks? Sure. Have I met any arrogant entitlement jerks? Sure. Have I met any 'hard working paycheck to paycheck folks that are jerks? Sure. It's almost like ... people are people. Hardly a generalization or pessimistic. The word 'some' was used. Regardless, the fact remains that there are 'some' who think that those who don't accomplish financial stability (even though they work hard), or can't afford their own health care because they have no insurance (even though they do the best they can), or don't have a ton of cash saved up for their retirement (even though they are productive members of society)...are worthless and deserve to suffer because they weren't able to accomplish these things...when others have. I'm speaking of hard working people from both ends of the socioeconomic spectrum...many have been blessed, and many have had misfortune...and we'd be wrong to think that those factors don't also play a role in how things turn out for folks.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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...many have been blessed, and many have had misfortune... ...and many have made wise choices, and many have made very poor ones.... George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire Tracker
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"Some" of course.
But we've catered to "some" long enough. Now it's time for ALL to pay and ALL to have a vested interest.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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...many have been blessed, and many have had misfortune... ...and many have made wise choices, and many have made very poor ones.... Yep. I know I've made some poor choices...how about you?
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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"Some" of course.
But we've catered to "some" long enough. Now it's time for ALL to pay and ALL to have a vested interest. I guess that's the difference between my line of thinking and yours...you feel like the hardworking, less fortunate folks that I've described above have been "catered" to. I don't. You feel like the hardworking, less fortunate folks that I've described above don't have a vested interest. I believe they do.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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By Herman Cain
Americans, like my Uncle Leroy and Aunt Bessie, want common-sense solutions � not more fine-tuning. My 9-9-9 plan passes the Leroy & Bessie test.
The 9-9-9 plan, like all of my economic policy, is grounded in three economic guiding principles: Production, not consumption, drives the economy; risk-taking creates growth; and units of measurement must be dependable.
Under my plan, the current personal and corporate tax codes are completely replaced.
There's more.
Payroll taxes: gone!
The death tax: killed!
The alternative minimum tax: don't let the door hit you on the way out!
The capital gains tax: zero!
Repatriated profits: welcome home, our friend!
Double taxation of dividends: eliminated!
If you want a real pro-growth, pro-jobs, pro-export, pro-taxpayer plan, this is it:
�A 9% corporate flat tax. Businesses would deduct purchases from other U.S. located businesses, and all capital investment. The resulting gross income is taxed at 9%.
�A 9% personal flat tax. Individuals would deduct charitable contributions, then pay 9% on the rest of their income. Capital gains are excluded.
�A 9% national sales tax. This levy would be placed on the consumption of all new goods. Used goods purchased would be excluded.
The 9-9-9 plan is simple, transparent, efficient, fair and neutral.
It taxes everything once but nothing twice.
There will be the fewest opportunities to evade the tax and the least incentive to do so.
More important, the plan will generate the most growth and jobs, and provide certainty to the engine of economic growth � the business sector.
Our country deserves no less. I look forward to working with my fellow patriots to get it done.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Tracker
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"Some" of course.
But we've catered to "some" long enough. Now it's time for ALL to pay and ALL to have a vested interest. I guess that's the difference between my line of thinking and yours...you feel like the hardworking, less fortunate folks that I've described above have been "catered" to. I don't. You feel like the hardworking, less fortunate folks that I've described above don't have a vested interest. I believe they do. No, the difference between you and I is you keep subscribing incorrect thoughts to me that I won't attempt to subscribe motive to. My point is we have varying levels of 'vested interest' today. From nothing, to unjustifiable 10 figures worth of 'interest'. Since nobody has the stomach for an annual "fee" to be a U.S. citizen, the LEAST we could do is make everyone pay EQUALLY according to their income. But in the bizzaro world we live in a guy making $500k paying 10 times what a guy making $50k does is somehow not "fair". "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" updated for 2011.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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If you want a real pro-growth, pro-jobs, pro-export, pro-taxpayer plan, this is it:
�A 9% corporate flat tax. Businesses would deduct purchases from other U.S. located businesses, and all capital investment. The resulting gross income is taxed at 9%. But... but... but.... some here informed me this has nothing to do with helping the economy?
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Tracker
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That is absolutely the plus and should not be dismissed. But then the "poor" will begin the wailing and gnashing of teeth. The only reason to pay any attention to them is that they VOTE. Get it?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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In order for 999 to pass, problems like tax free savings, Roth IRA, would be addressed.
===============
As would a repeal of the 16th. Yes it would in 999 Phase II. I have always thought that a Fair tax/national sales tax/consumption tax plan inherently make more sense than any Flat tax/income tax plan based on production. But I have also thought that a Flat tax/income tax plan is more doable��much easier to get passed as the law of the land. No repeal needed. As much as I like the Fair Tax and the Cain 999 and its simplicity to help sell it, I like the Newt Gingrich Flat Tax plan better. More doable because it is full of words like choice-optional-free to choose and other words like Reduce and Abolish�
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Tracker
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You're right in that it's an "extreme" example. Certainly the exception rather than the rule. Millions of Americans will never, never be able to accomplish what your "extreme" example has...or even what many of us have...through no fault of their own. Here's another example. A promising young man graduates from high school and wants to go to college, but his family doesn't have the money to send him so he takes whatever job he can find to earn money. It's 1968 and the kid gets drafted and sent to Vietnam. If you go to DC you can see his name on the wall.
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Campfire Tracker
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You're right in that it's an "extreme" example. Certainly the exception rather than the rule. Millions of Americans will never, never be able to accomplish what your "extreme" example has...or even what many of us have...through no fault of their own. Here's another example. A promising young man graduates from high school and wants to go to college, but his family doesn't have the money to send him so he takes whatever job he can find to earn money. It's 1968 and the kid gets drafted and sent to Vietnam. If you go to DC you can see his name on the wall. Never underestimate the opposition viewpoints ability to at least attempt to stoop.
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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That is absolutely the plus and should not be dismissed. But then the "poor" will begin the wailing and gnashing of teeth. The only reason to pay any attention to them is that they VOTE. Get it? Two candidates to choose from. Canidate A - "Everybody should pay their fair share." Candidate B - "I want the top 40% to pay everything for the bottom 60%". I am to conclude we should nominate Candidate B, correct? Get it?
NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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