Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What you REALLY need from a personal protection handgun

On the topic of Jum Cirillo, one must remember that in the vast majority of his shootings, he knew he was going to a gunfight. He often carried and used a long gun, usually a 20ga SxS Stevens or M1 Carbine. He viewed the pistol as a backup, and carried several, coining the term "New York Reload,"

No, you need to learn to keep your finger off of the trigger (and not disengage the external safety) until the muzzle is clear of YOU! I'd like to read of any proponent of the modern pistol technique who reccomends otherwise. As Lewis Awerbuck opined, "If, at anytime during a gunfight, you shoot yourself, you have lost."

Anyone knowingly going to a gun fight would be a fool to take a pistol when a rifle was available. That was the purpose of the 30 MI Carbine to replace the pistol and make it easier to make hit in a real gunfight. As a close to medium range weapon the 30 carbine is way under rated these days.

However, the carbine is difficult to holster concealed. And drawing it efficiently is a pain as well.

Yessir. I concur wholeheartedly with that approach.

That's a very important point.

How do you do that with a "Glock"? It has no safety

A Glock has three safeties.

The thumb safety is located, where?

Damn dude, is English a second language for you?

Again there is no safety to disengage as the gun is drawn as is on the 1911

What is your language???

I've been accused of speaking grit, but I write and read Standard Written English, apparently quite a bit better than you. Your post said the Glock had no safety, you didn't say a damned thing about an external safety. I correctly replied that a Glock has three safeties. Apparently you need work on more than your draw stroke.

I believe there are seven criteria to help you through the decision process of choosing a CCW:
(1) The gun has to be with you when you need it. When do you need it? When you don't expect to need it (if you expected trouble, you would be armed with a rifle). A gun that is too much trouble to carry won't be with you when you need it.
(2) The gun has to be quick into action. (this drives the loaded condition of the gun and how you carry it)
(3) The gun has to be powerful enough to get the job done (your presentation of the gun may not deter the adversary. you may really have to shoot, and you want it to be powerful enough to cease hostilities with one well placed shot)
(4) Reliable in your hands (must always go bang)
(5) Accurate in your hands (hit what you aim at)
(6) Controllable in your hands (fast and accurate follow-up shots)
(7) the gun does you no harm (eg no magnaporting -- which depending on the presentation of the firearm could put hot gasses into your eyes)

With all that said, my choices are three: A Colt Ltwt Commander, a Walther PPS, or a Smith J-frame revolver.

No I don't need to work on my"draw and stroke". You were lecturing on when the 1911 safety was to be disengaged and I asked plainly how was that to be done with a Glock. I did not specify external safety, but since that was what the discussion was about, it was a given that you were incapable of grasping. Are you sure that you are fluent in English?

I dont normally "carry" but I usually have a 6906 near me in my bag.
But at the risk of called a girl
I picked up a 317 S&W today OK its 10oz (not inc ammo) and 8 shots of 22LR from a J frame
Because its light and easy to carry I may quite a bit more often
Because its a J frame revolver its easy to opperate
Because its 22 my next shots will be controllable

What about that?

"Grasping" huh, at straws maybe? Bless your heart.

You had no way out and still don't

The best safety is keep you finger off the trigger until you have the pistol out of the holster . Drawing a 1911 with the thumb safety off is no different than drawing a Glock or XD from the holster. Finger off the trigger will keep you from accidental gunshot in the leg or foot. End of argument .

This is a fascinating thought provoking post, Kevin. Some really good points have been made.
My choices are kind of broad based. They are based on a number of things. But first a few "rules" or shall we say considerations.
Where are you carrying and what are the threats there ? How difficult is it to keep that thing truly concealed but ready when needed ? What kind of tactics do you plan to use if confronted by something you must deal with which requires a gun ?
I've been a cop and still know lots of them. I was around when the Black Panthers got started, etc. They aren't really trained like an elite military force BTW. I know/knew some of the guys that shot it out with them. I've known a fair number of guys who were employed by LAPD and the LA county SO.
I've been to lots of shootings involving civilians, etc. Self defense, drunken arguments, you name it. I've been there and done that when we took down both low class and at least one high class hit man, etc.
Like has been said. If you live and/or work in a high crime area, that is not just different but far different than living in a quiet, peaceful community. I've done both and seen what a really big difference there is. BTW, crime stats don't tell anything like the truth in our big cities compared to places where I live now. Even our big cities have stark differences in the threat levels that you face when in them.
This all means you need to have situation awareness and you need to employ tactics which will be a matter of habit.
For example, I always lock doors behind me when I come home or leave. Always. When in a public place, particularly a restuarant or any probable robbery target, I'm aware of who is where and what they are like and doing. If I sit down, it always with my back against a wall, and watching the door.
My point is that a gun is no good if you don't see it coming. My second one is that I never rely on the gun as my only tactic. That means if it looks like something is about to happen, I/we are out of there.
Nor am I carrying a gun to make any arrests or to rescue those I don't know. Too many chances it will go wrong. And if it does, it goes really bad.
Guns and why ? I like the 1911's in .45 ACP. I'm going to look seriously at a Commander style like your S&W w/ a laser, or a Colt Defender. One thing some don't realize is that a 230 gr. .45 will do a good job of shooting things like auto glass or interior doors where the 9mm's don't I kind like that option. But, frankly, if I'm feeling lazy and want to carry something lighter, I like the 5.7 FN. Won't shoot through glass and doors, but it will do alot more damage than any .380 load.
Above all, they conceal very well, are availiable to either hand and can be operated with eiither hand. Keeping that gun truly concealed is something that is alot more important than some think. If you get made, the bad guys will think you are a cop, and the good guys may think you are a bad guy.
All this means is that which gun is important only to you. It must be very familar to you. Like an extenson of your arm. You must have complete faith in it. And you must know it strenth and weaknesses. Not hard for gun nuts. E

Mas Ayoob and every other trainer of note says you are FOS.