Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What you REALLY need from a personal protection handgun

(I guess many of us have varying personal pistol protection preferences.)

I personally have no need or desire to 'carry' a handgun (routinely) or to have a 'license' to do so.

Still, I strongly rely on some of my handguns to be ACCESSIBLE for personal defense purposes: Travelling, camping, home (and away) protection ... whatever.

I'm not interested in 'custom' jobs or larger caliber, sub~compact~micro handguns - or comfortable with any bullet bigger than 45 Caliber - or tolerant of any cartridge more powerful than .357 Magnum. (recoil)

What I do like is a handgun that is for me 'right size', one that stows away with some convenience, AND a handgun that 'fits' right and 'feels' right. (One that I can 'shoot' right.)

Just an outta-the-box, durable, reliable, good quality, and accurate handgun.

Three of my favorites I rely on, are a CZ 40-P, A Walther P-88 C (9MM), and an FN Belgium 40 Hi-Power. (NO polymer.)

I have two different risk scenarios. I live west of Denver at 8,500 ft in the Colorado Rockies right next to the Roosevelt National Forest.

1. I work as a consultant, mostly from home and the crime rate here is mostly non-existant. The critters are all around. We have Moose, Elk, Mule Deer, Mountain Lion and most often problems from Black Bears. I have been trying to figure out what to carry when working in the yard and possibly between vehicle and house. Inside the house is Mossberg 500 12ga, slugs in summer and buckshot when the bears are sleeping. In the yard it is Kahr MK40 with 200gr Double Tap Lead Wide Flat Nose Hard Cast lead bullets. Would like to find a light 41 mag or 44 mag which I already shoot and reload for.

2. For trips into Denver or elsewhere in summer I carry a Kahr MK40 often with extra mags loaded with Double Tap 180 gr JHP Gold Dots in a DeSantis Nemisis Front Pocket Holster. In winter when I can conceal with a jacket or sweater I carry either a Para Ordnance 12-45 in a Milt Sparks Versa Max II or a Fusion Firearms 1911 6-inch longslide in 10mm in a shoulder holster that was a cheap nylon model modified to function properly by me with cutting and heavy needle and thread work.

Eremicus,

You've raised an excellent point. Good guys ought to know what would cause them to intervene. I have always held the position that I will never intervene unless the lives of my kids or mine were in imminent danger. But I know I couldn't turn my back on a cop who was in danger. And if an innocent person were to be murdered, I am not sure I would be able to live with myself if I had ability to help & didn't.

I can only pray that I will never be placed in a position to find out what I'd do were an innocent person's life in imminent danger.


Adios,

R

I work in a gunshop/range and always carry my G19 there. When I'm just out and about, it's a M&P340 loaded with .38+P. I'm one of the minority whose hand fits the Glock grip angle. I call the 340 my American Express card because I never leave home without it. I've never had a problem concealing it, so I have no need to go smaller. The G19 normally rides in a Don Hume JIT and the 340 in an Uncle Mikes pocket holster. Like others have mentioned, I'm too old to be looking for trouble. I'm 52 but have severe arthritis in both shoulders.

Kevin,

As usual, your likes & logic pretty closely mirror my preferences & thinking so I'll just add a few more of my thoughts & thinking.

My primary carry gun is also a LW Commander sized 1911 as well.

A 1911 is always my 1st choice as a SD/carry gun, be it LW Commander size or steel Govt. sized.

I grew up shooting a 1911 & have competed using one for 30 years as well & the gun is just simply 2nd nature to me; I know it intimately, it's comfortable & it's just naturally instinctive for me to handle & shoot it........and mine all work perfectly, each & every time.

I like wheel guns & am perfectly happy & comfortable shooting most models of them, but they're not my choice of a carried SD handgun.

The 1911 is always the choice if I know I am going into a questionable area or traveling; even if I am not carrying one, there is always a Govt. sized gun in the vehicle & a holster if needed.

I carry other guns from time to time, depending on circumstances, from a M27 Glock to a J-frame S&W to a 380 auto. The Glock is an all purpose carry gun from light to serious duty; the others are mainly for light duty occasions.

My philosophy behind carrying a 1911, besides most all of what you have already cited, is that it's what's most comfortable for me in all situations.

All things being equal, I want the threat as far away from me as possible as I believe my shooting expertise is better than most "on the street" threats is likely to be, & the 45 ACP is an adequate round & the 1911 is an adequate platform at ranges from 30 to 50 yards or so..........I've shot lots of matches at 50 yards.

If the action is up close & personal, the 1911 can handle that situation as well also.

Avoidance is naturally the best policy, but in today's crazy world, one just never knows what each new day will bring.........the crazies just seem to be multiplying.

If I knew I was going to a gunfight or even into a really high risk area, there'd be a shotgun with plenty of ammo and/or an M-4 with plenty of clips loaded. In fact, with long distance trips, there's usually one or the other along.

MM

A good post & the best I've ever seen from you.

Congrats..............

MM

There are exceptions to every rule. I, too, don't think I could turn my back on a cop in real danger. E

Interesting that you should say that. NH K9 commented once that he always developed a plan to kill everyone in the room in any given instance. Not as diabolical as it seems. He simply meant that he works out scenarios to deal with a situation of one or more of the people near him suddenly going homicidal. I admitted I too habitually work out such scenarios.

While at the outdoor range a couple of weeks ago, I found myself there at the rifle range with one other guy I didn't know (I'm usually alone on the entire property of this private, locked gate, gun club). He was shooting a Beretta Storm, a handgun caliber security carbine. I was sighting in my hunting rifle. I went up to check my targets and he stayed behind. It occurred to me that should he go homicidal on me (highly unlikely, but I believe in the Boy Scout motto), at the range we were distance from each other, I'd be at a gigantic disadvantage, only carrying on me a Kahr P-9, and that if I were carrying a standard weight Government Model, the odds would be a good ways closer. That mental exercise habit has a tendency to "keep one honest" in one's handgun choices.

Mine is equipped with CTC Laser Grips. I like them as an adjunct to my night sights, but my first instinct is to just use the sights. My instinct is not (nor will it ever be) to look for a laser dot, but my front sight. However, there are situations where the laser is one clever little device. A little time on the range training with the laser will make you a believer.




I see absolutely nothing wrong with a .45 ACP. But be aware, a 147 Grain 9mm will out penetrate a .45 JHP in any instance or class. And the newer ones do expand; it's an excellent LE round.

Here�s the thing�

For those who teach a pistol course, they will typically teach the shooter to thumb the safety off when the gun is clear of leather and pointing forward. When is open to debate. Some say immediately after the gun is forward, to accommodate a speed rock. Others say only after the two hands have been joined together so as to avoid putting holes in your weak hand (don�t think for a minute it doesn�t happen; even to professionals). Then there are those who use their trigger finger as the safety, and thumb the manual safety off the second they have enough thumb on the lever to switch it off.

It really doesn�t matter which one you do, as long as you understand what�s at stake. With the light pull of the 1911 the second you touch that trigger in a gunfight, it�s going off; so your training better allow for getting your other hand the hell out of the way.

The reason why shooting schools teach you to wait until the last minute to disengage the safety is because they have to teach to the lowest denominator and assume you�re an idiot. I used to thumb the safety off while the gun was coming out of the holster until I went to ESI and took Farnam�s course. At that point I saw that while I was safe in my procedure doing it the other way, there was a better way of doing things.

There�s also better ways of gently letting people know their procedure can be improved upon.

had no idea we were related Mark!


felt very familiar reading your words, great post.

told someone the other day I'd entered the dangerous stage of my life.

used to be willing to take an azz whuppin or give one, now I'm not so inclined to take one.


so I have to be extremely careful, actually had a confrontation with 4 misguided young men last week. But I had a sheetrock hammer handy, so two were going down hard and who knows what happens after that, depends upon the mindset and speed of the two remaining.

amazing that they didn't seem to want any of it when the issue was pressed. Guess they were just trying to sell some wolf tickets and picked the wrong gray bearded old geezer as a customer.

When I was younger and training all the time (boxing, Kenpo, firearms, etc.), I walked with a bit more of an air of confidence and I saw that carried well. Often times I�d have someone begin to challenge me from afar, only to back down when they got up close and realized I was more than willing to accommodate them; somehow, body language I suppose, they got the impression I wasn�t the soft target they thought I was (I always had a bit of a baby face). That was nice; pretty handy. My oldest boy has that due to his size (6�6� 350lbs); only the really dumb ones tie into him�they always lose.

I haven�t had anyone mess with me in a LONG time, and I thank God for that every day. Since I had my knee replacement and I�m significantly less capable. My hand speed is still good, but my footwork has gone all to hell. I have a tough time in the ring these days, but I still enjoy getting in the ring from time to time (but these young doods hit HARD; thank God for head gear).

If I were smart, I�d carry a can of pepper spray, but it�s kinda hard to find in my town.

Given that NH-K9 is a LEO & probably goes into places he'd probably really rather not be, that only makes good sense............I did that in times past when I was willing to go places & get involved in doing things I just simply don't do anymore.

As I said in my earlier post, avoidance keeps you out of a lot of potential schitty situations, but if you are going into anything at all that could put you at risk, you absolutely have to have a plan & then a fall-back plan on top of that.

Pretty basic strategy & tactics, really.

As a rule, I don't carry because I think I'm going to need it on any given day; I carry for the just-in-case scenario.

My wife carries, too & is a pretty respectable shooter & she is cool & calm as well, so when we are together, I'm fortunate to have a backup.

MM

We're all "idiots" when the SHTF. It's called the "tachy-psyche effect". That's what the Modern Technique of the pistol assumes and plans for. You bring up a good point about the speed rock. That is another argument against an external safety, that is, if you are trained to pop the safety off at position three, you'll likely forget to do it under stress with a speed rock at arm's distance. As you said earlier, you'd better train, and train hard, with what you carry.

You seem to assume everyone is a complete idiot. I don�t understand this mindset and you�re very closed minded, which makes me think you�re either just an inherently closed minded person, or you have very limited experience or training. This stuff about forgetting to thumb off the safety, is just astonishing to me; you really think people are idiots. Perhaps your only exposure to training is the training of very poorly educated or poorly trained people. For those who are �into� guns, typically the manipulation or manual of arms of their pet Roscoe becomes second nature; ESPECIALLY for those who have been using them for years. I don�t recall ever hearing of a well trained individual who forgot how his weapon worked; that�s why we train for God�s sake. And if someone forgot to do something, they either froze in combat (which just happens and weapon choice won�t change that), or didn�t have sufficient training (FOR THEM � we�re not all the same) with their chosen weapon.

Now like I said before, I consistently trained with every different system I could get my hands on, and when it all hit the fan; I�ve never had any problem remembering what I was carrying, and how it worked. Every time I�ve drawn my weapon in defense, I�ve known what I was carrying (even if only for a few hours) and what the manual of arms was. I�ve carried Glocks in Mexico, Sig�s in W.Virginia, and a Taurus in Honduras. Hi Powers in California, as well as S&W K frames and another Taurus. For the past 17 years I�ve carried a Browning Hi Power for 10 and a LW Commander for the past 7. Hand me a Beretta 92 with the safety on, and tuck it into a holster and I�m sufficiently armed; I�m not in the LEAST bit concerned I�ll �forget� to do anything.

I�ve drawn a weapon in self defense or defense of a client several times and thankfully never had to shoot. I�ve never had any problems remembering what I was carrying and how it worked, no matter how different it was from the pistol I normally carried.

It is true that there are those who get their brain trained one way and get locked on that; perhaps that�s you (and I don�t mean that as a slight at all; would explain where you come from). But to think that because that happens sometimes, it happens all the time and to everyone is just ignorant. Remember, we�re not talking about training a group of recruits here; we�re talking about training individuals. And when you train an individual, things can be MUCH more flexible; you don�t have to use a one size fits all approach. With shooting schools that run �em in like cattle through a chute, the one size fits all approach makes a lot of sense. But when you teach private, one on one lessons, you get more time to learn the intricacies of the individual and can tailor the training to the personality type, and match the training to their threat.

You should also know that the tachy psych effect not only is very different for everyone, but training can offset much of it. I�m glad you have your system, but don�t beat down everyone else�s just because it doesn�t fit your world and what you�ve learned. The first thing all the names you consistently drop should have told you (and if you trained with 1/10th of them; you�ve heard it), is there�s no ONE right way or wrong way to do anything. They have put considerable thought to the issue and have come up with THEIR solutions�not THE solutions.

Got it Kevin. Hell, I'll just leave the safety off on a 1911 from now on. If anything bad happens it'll be the result of my being an incompetent dumbass. Got it.

Please expound on that thought a little. Do you believe the .45ACP Gov't Model is that much better than a short barrelled 9MM when distance is involved?

Facing a carbine, either would be a poor choice IMO.

Sarcasm noted; thanks.

Yes, it is. Partly because of the longer sight radius but mainly because of the trigger, if it has a good one. Don't take my word for it. Put up a 12in gong at 75 or 100yd and go prone with both guns. I do agree that either makes you undergunned against someone with an AR, but you stand a better chance with a tuned 1911. If you are limited to a handgun and a long shot is on the table, that's the one.

Just speaking personally, I shoot a Government Model quite a bit better than I do a Kahr P-9. Your mileage may vary. I do believe, however, that this same rule would apply to anyone who'd applied any significant degree of training with both. Reasons in no particular order: 1) larger hand-filling frame on the Government Model, 2) much greater weight, and therefore stability under recoil, with the Government Model, 3) trigger on the Government Model is much more amenable to precision work at distance than that of the Kahr, 4) longer sight radius on the Government Model, and 5) the .45 ACP from a five inch barrel is a somewhat better fight stopper than 9mm from a three inch barrel.