Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What you REALLY need from a personal protection handgun

My interest in his thoughts lean towards the caliber selection, and if that plays a difference in his choice. Until he responds, I'm of the belief that he has a 1911A1 that is simply more accurate for him than his Kahr.

I know the 1911A1 trigger, and I know the Kahr trigger. Neither pistol would be completely optimal for the task. Maybe one is somewhat better than the other but that would be quite subjective and based on the individual representative pistols involved along with that shooter's abilities and skill level.

Some Kahrs shoot very well (I've never owned one that did for me), some 1911A1's are pure crap (carried plenty of them on active duty).

EDIT: I see the response hit while I was sending this post. Thanks for the additional info TRH. We were somewhat thinking the very same thing.

I'm still amazed at the so called experts who are afraid of the 1911 and its cocked and locked option just because it is visible to the eye. To bad most pistol aren't clear so they can see how the striker system works, if so they would be afraid to carry any modern handgun. Carrying a 1911 with the manual safety off would probably be as safe as some as the modern action types, the grip safety works really well from preventing a accidental firing of the weapon. Take-a-knee you need some more training with the 1911 platform and should go to some of these schools you tend to refer to in every post. Every gun fighter regardless of the time period in history had his own Technic when it comes to pistol shooting and weapon presentation. What works best for you may not work the best for someone else. Forgetting you have a safety on the pistol show lack of training with the weapon you choose to carry. Long distant pistol shooting takes practice, a good set of sights and hard to do under stress.

Sure thing. This is the Government Model I carry when I carry one. It's a pre-Series 70 Colt and has an excellently crisp and ideally light trigger. No bells and whistles, and I much prefer it that way.

I disagree.
If one KNOWS longer than normal pistol combat ranges will be required, revolvers rule the day for accurate aimed fire. That's what you see used on "sillywet" steel target ranges.

If facing a long arm at distance with a combat pistol, one best be able to supply a high enough rate of fire to somewhat suppress or negatively influence the rifleman's aimed fire. Going at each other with aimed fire will result in a quick loss for the pistol shooter. One best do what they can to prevent the rifleman from well aimed fire.
Not "spray and pray" but having plenty of rounds of higher velocity ammo on board is a good thing. Well, maybe the "pray" part anyhow...

Very nice!
I have a Combat Commander with the only changes being a beavertail safety and better sights. It is no doubt much easier to get hits with than the Kahrs I've owned and sold.
But if I had to answer someone intent on taking my life with a long arm, at a distance outside of "bad breath" I'd have to rely on a P226, G19 or a G17. It will not even the odds, but I'll surely send some fast flying and flatter shooting 9MM+P heat his direction!

In a gunfight you just better pray you don't have to face a rifle at long range when only armed with a pistol. You will probably die or be serious crippled. Just ask the FBI, in the 1986 Florida Shootout

AMEN.

My "plan," instantly developed, regardless of handgun, was to move laterally for cover (along the side edge of the range, along which I was walking, is a high and steep ridge with lots of bushes and crevices), hopefully drawing him a good bit closer, evening the odds a bit as he'd be drawn in to approach my position while I simply had to wait for him to come into view, sidearm already aimed his way.

Undeniably true, but still better to make a plan.

Very nicely put, Kevin. I concur.

It's apparent that many shooters have already identified their favorite weapons and seek to justify their choices by rationale that supports their choices. But then again, confidence in a weapon is important even though they're are better weapons for self-defense. I look at it the other way. What practical weapon provides me with the greatest odds of surviving what I pray I can avoid?

I have read God knows how many shooters attempt to defend revolvers as their preferred self-defense weapons. Assuredly, they have affinity for revolvers which causes them to create their illusory preeminence. It's impossible to introduce reason and logic into discussions involving sentiment. An ugly chick to one might be a fox to another. I like revolvers, but they are not suitable survival weapons in gunfights. They have far too many limitations. Yes, I know trick shooters can reload one just as fast as a semiauto. But that's not reason & logic: it's entertainment. I'd bet bad guy should such a trick shot confront a banger who ain't afraid to die. Most bangers know the value of a good tactical weapons, which is why most prefer military-type weapons.

A serious problem that was far more ubiquitous during the nascent days of the 'net was that most relied upon entertainment for knowledge. Gun magazines are entertainment. They depend upon sales for business viability. They are not objective sources of tactical knowledge.

Within ten years shooters have become much more knowledgeable. For instance, I can't remember anyone recently asserting that the 9MM is equal to a .45ACP, yet ten years ago it was common for shooters to actually believe it because they read it in entertainment media.

Using a .22 anything for self-defense is not wise. I don't care who uses it; just the fact that someone would rely upon one tells me that there's a paucity of knowledge there.

Small caliber & limited capacity weapons for self-defense fall into the lack of knowledge category. If shooters want to risk their lives on such weapons, that's their decisions. I wish them well.

I know that reloading places one at a tactical disadvantage. That's why tactical reloading is important. And it's a primary reason why I like a 12 round .40 S&W mag, .40 S&W being my minimum self-defense caliber. I am not an energy dump guy. I want a through-and-through wound. I want maximum blood loss if I can't hit CNS.

The cause of gunfights is because a bad guy wants to kill a good guy. Shooting at targets assuredly has no predictive value when one must return rife under stress of dodging a bad guy's bullets. My suggestion is to practice under stressful scenarios. We used to have to identify and decide with instructors yelling in our faces. While it did produce a lot of stress, it was nothing like a bad guy shooting at us. However, it's impractical to create an actual real-life shooting scenario. So the best that can be hoped for is a close simulation.

If a gunfight can't be avoided, tactical retreat should always be at the forefront of one's tactics. The good guy wants the gunfight over posthaste. While many believe it's possible to aim in gunfights, I can assure you that gunfights, especially at close range, is all point shooting. If you have time to aim, you ought to be considering running. Point shooting should be part of cover fire while you're effectuating tactical retreat or running for cover. If a good guy remains stationary, he'll make himself a better target for a bad guy who wants to kill him. So making yourself a target is always a bad idea.

Eyes will never kill you. Never waste time staring at a bad guy's face. You'll expose yourself to danger. A suspect's hands will kill you. Pay attention to them. When I confronted bad guys, I kept my eyes on hands and a barrier that I could hind behind. And believe me, if I had to I'd be shooting at the bad guy while hightailing it to a barrier. Hence, no aiming, only point shooting. The absolute dumbest tactical response is to remain stationary, acquiring sights, and shooting it out with a bad guy. Such tactical response causes coroners more work, but it gives hope to organ recipients.

Choosing a handgun is part of a comprehensive survival plan, foremost of which is avoidance. It's the survivor's responsibility to choose wisely unless he's bored with temporal existence, which I ain't.


Buena Suerte,

R

Solid plan. Avoidance of concrete, cross tie walls and the like is wise, and getting some dirt between the threat and yourself is quite important.

Getting small and utilizing what cover is available (terrain) is the first and most important step.
Getting mad as hell will help in the next step!

The Real Hawkeye,

That is the only weapon of which I'm aware that was designed for actual combat. The Beretta 92 was designed as a cop gun that was adapted for combat. And I believe that a 5" 1911A1 is the best balanced of all tactical weapons. It has a very natural point. And best of all, it fires a round that was designed for combat effectiveness.

If you know the best, the rest are imitations.


Buena Suerte,

R

Agreed.

That's funny!

I think he meant sidearm rather than weapon. Don't know if the statement is technically true or not (he did say, "that I know of," however, which covers error), but I agree with the gist of his statement.

The 100 Greatest Combat Pistols
Hand-On Tests and Evaluations of Handguns from Around the World
by Timothy J Mullin

Suggested read for R.

My number one rule is to try not to put myself in a position to where i have to shoot someone. I know someday i may not be able to avoid a shoot out with another, so i carry and i hope if the need arises my mental capacity hold up until the fight is over and if I'm the winner or i should say I'm still alive then i will have time to panic. No one knows how they will react when bullets are coming their way so all you can do is hope for the best if it happens to you. Stress kills more people than any thing else in this world and no one knows how they will react to it, they are only guessing.

WTM45,

You gotta distinguish combat pistols as those designed as such from those adapted for such.

If you read Browning's historical development of the Model 1911A1 to satisfy the Army's specs, you'll learn that he created it to be a combat weapon.


Adios,

R

Ho The Real Hawkeye,

You're right, I did mean pistol for combat.


Take care,

R