Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Using Mixed Headstamped brass

Ok, so I am having trouble with some load development. My groups always seem to be 3", getting down to 1.5" etc. I have many groups that feature two really good shots and a thirds that opens the group. When I look at the empties from this group, they usually have two of the same headstamp and one of a different brand. I have been using range pick up brass, or purchased used brass with different head stamps. I am hoping that buying new brass and using same headstamp, same lot brass, the groups will close up. I have better luck with loads that I have made starting with new brass.

Does anyone know what kind of affect mixing brass can have? Will it be significant?

Different brands often have different case capacities, thus different pressure levels for a given load, I would think that would greatly affect accuracy.

Although I have never done it.

Gunner

Unless you're using uniform brass, you're spitting into the wind.

You are correct, and with that informaton, it would also be dangerous... if loading near max. Hmmmm.

segregate your brass according to head stamp. find the head stamp that gives you the best accuracy and stick to it. Cull or trade the rest.

I also wouldn't recommend using brass from the range that you didn't shoot, they could be someone else's handloads and they could be over max. loads or wore out brass, just not a safe practice IMO. If you talked to the person beforehand and confirmed it was factory ammo and they let you have the brass, that's another story. I think you'll find that you'll get better accuracy and more consistent results by at least using brass of the same headstamp, preferably brass of the same brand and lot would be best though.

Yep, that appears to be the process I will go through!

If you're intent on using range brass (I wouldn't for the reasons given above,) at least weigh the cases and sort them by weight within 1g after you sized and trimmed them all to length. If they are more than 3 or 4g difference in dry weight they WILL have a different internal volume and will affect pressures and accuracy.

After you segregate them by weight, anneal them. The 'grip' on seated bullets will also affect accuracy.

It's an exercise in futility but if you insist on using it then do as above and don't load and try for accuracy with brass of disparate weight and hardness. It just won't happen.

You're wasting money with the components you're using up. You could put that money to better use buying new brass. It's not that expensive to start off right and doesn't waste the components as you already have. Mixing and matching is wasting far more than the price of a bag of new brass.

Yeah, I think I am moving toward the new brass method for any brass I need to acquire. I will likey sell all the range brass locally. I sure dont want to burn up components and barrels trying to make something work.

The attraction to the range brass is it gives me something to do in the evenings when I am not ready to reload anything. I can sort and size brass. I guess that was just a waste of time.

It is my opinion that range brass is just fine to use.
Once fired.
Size, trim, true primer pockets, turn necks if so inclined, clean and then weight sort.
Do not mix the brass manufacturers for loading and shooting purposes.
I usually accumulate three weight groups. The majority is in the middle, then those that weigh light and those that weigh heavy.
Load and shoot weight groups separately and you should be set.
jmho
Tim

I spent many, many years using mixed headstamp brass with good success, a flyer here and there, but generally MOA or very close to it. I've changed my tune very recently as I've been doing load development for an MGM Encore barrel in .260 Rem. This barrel shows a very distinct preference for R-P .260 Rem. brass, although I haven't sprung for the Lapua brass to try that yet. Groups open with necked up Winchester .243 Win. brass or necked down and outside neck-turned Lake City Match brass. I've never seen quite the distinct preference for brass as I have in this case, but I'll never mix headstamps again.

I have seen wide variation in the weight of cases within the sme headstamp. Upon inspecting new bags of brass, I have also found non-concentric necks, flash holes that were off-center, and flash holes with irregular tubed extending into the case.
I spend some time going over cases the first time I use them, tho' nothing like the inspection the bencrest guys give'em.

Range pick up brass is great and you can't beat the price. Of course the brass has to be looked at when you get to the shop. Reloader brass will look tired, worn around the head, multipule marks on the headstamp, will show trim and chamfer marks, and so forth. It helps to know what colour a factory primer is also in determining if the brass is 1X. But that's not a for sure sign.
I've still got coffee cans full of 1X Rem 30-06/308/.223 brass that I picked up almost 20 years ago.

I use a fair amount of picked up brass, but it is all once fired and I load all of it with the same headstamp. I don't use it for hunting or other serious shooting chores. I use the cheaper bullets, don't load to maximum levels and use it for casual practice, shooting steel, the shorter range type of practice.
I've done this alot with both rifle and handgun brass. The only rules I follow are inspect carefully, and discard any that is suspicious, clean it and segregate as to headstamps. Even the make can be different with things like +P ammo vs. standard loads. E

I've used range brass all my life and am a happy shooter. If you are seeking a world 1000 yard championship then you should be a little fussier. Starting with 3" groups however, you will do fine with range brass. Inspect it for cracks and exceptional head diameter, clean it (a tumbler is a great tool) and aneal the necks by standing them in 1/2 of water, heating the necks red and tipping them over. I weight brass and sort but for starters you can just sort by head stamp. Trim to length and turn the necks if you can. It makes a big difference if you mix headstamps. Excessive case length also kills you. You will see if you weight the brass that there is a considerable difference in internal capacity of mixed brass and the result is a noticeable pressure/velocity change.

Seating depth makes a big difference too, so try it. I would suggest taking your most accurate load and varying the seating depth. Start with the bullet about .010 away from touching the lands on your rifle. Move back to SAAMI specified length in .025 increments. You may have to worry about magazine length for hunting and start with the maximum overall length for that.

Bullet selection makes a difference too. The Sierra Game King or Hornady VMax will typically be very accurate but not sure what caliber you are shooting. Good luck.

Some guns will tell you that they must have "like" brass and some guns shoot many things to the same point of impact. FWIW I find that federal and rem brass are usually almost identical in wt and case capacity. Win brass on the other hand is usually lighter and has more capacity and therefore the velocity can vary. In my '06 there is a 50 fps diff between win and rem/fed with identical loads. Sometimes that's enough for 100 yd differences and sometimes not. Only way to find out is to shoot them. If you are looking for very good 300 yd accuracy then I would say the differences will become more apparent.

I've seen that too. Had to throw away some good R-P brass (range pickup about 5 pieces) the other day because it was quite a bit thicker/heavier than the newer stuff I have. Saw a noticable difference when running bullets across the chrono too but the rifle is a semi-auto winchester model 100 in 308 and the slightest change makes a difference in this rifle.

The main reason I don't reload brass picked up at the range is that I don't know were that brass has been, or how many times its been reloaded. I been loading my own ammo for some time now, Started in 1969. I will buy brass new, and assign that brass to a rifle. it stays with that rifle till I throw the brass away. I will prep my cases in the usual way, and just keep good records. I can generally find a good load in a short period of time. If the barrel and chamber are good to begin with and the rifle has no real issues. I did a lot of stuff over the years. I mostly load small batches of ammo at a time, 10 rounds, I would weigh out my brass and weigh out the charges and then weigh out the bullets and then load. I look at it as a hobby and try to make the best hand crafted ammo I can. I have shot some really small groups with hunting rifles over the years. But in the end paper groups have very little to do with shooting big game in the field. While being able to feed and extract dose, along with good bullet performance when said bullet hits meat. i will take a 1.5 inch group any day of the week if the other criteria is met. I am not a target shooter, that is a whole different sport that what I do, I hunt big game. So I load my ammo and make choices with that in mind.

While it's possible that a 'mixed headstamp' could throw one out of the group, often, with a well-balanced load, one not right at the peak of pressure for any particular case, you will find very acceptable groups even with three different headstamps. Obviously, the only real way to know is to keep track of every variable that corresponds with each shot, but hunting accuracy can be found with mixed headstamps - and I am guilty of knowing success in this regard. That said, make no assumptions and, if what you seek is the smallest groups possible, sorting cases is one of the easier variables to control. But often the bullet, load, or bedding are places where you'll eliminated flyers more readily.

I don't consider brass "broken in" properly until it has been fired once.

I shoot a lot of once-fired brass, but do not mix headstamps. Some brands have quite a bit more or less capacity than others.

Case capacity does matter, but the other thing that matters is neck tension. If your range pick-ups are properly annealed, you'll avoid this problem.