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In addition to Dr. James Kroll of Nacogdoches, Texas coming to Wisconsin to look at WIDNR's 15 year deer management plan, Gary Alt, a former Pennsylvania deer management specialst and David Guynn, professor emeritus from Clemson University is joining Dr. Kroll.
I have become increasingly more cynical about our Wisconsin Governor spending Fish and Game money on outside experts.
Dr. Kroll and his wife have been touring the state meeting with various hunting groups to obtain citizen attitudes on the current state of deer hunting in Wisconsin. WTF is his wife doing here?
This all smacks of a cluster [bleep].
Do other states have deer experts invading them?
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*ell, I learned a long time ago, that Fish and Game could care less what the Public thinks or wants.
THEY KNOW BEST .... especially after our State financed them with a portion of a sales tax, so they would have a stable fund coming in.
AND now they have natural gas revenue coming from the State Refuge land ... might as well talk to a brick wall for all the good it will do!
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And there are 800,000 that disagree with you in some way or another. Where does that get us?
Until the "I'm getting mine at the expense of everyone else" mentality of everyone involved changes, this is what you will continue to see. Self-serving people electing self-serving politicians does not sound game management make.
In the case of Walker, he has to appese his political base or he's done for. There is no loyalty to anything anymore. If you don't do what we want, we'll replace you tomorrow.
It's the American way, don't you know.
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Nobody p=sses and moans about deer management like Wi folks. Well maybe Pa. folks do too, at least from what I have read.
At least the good Dr. is asking people what they think.
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Your right {roundoak} I but they never saw a larfe deer were they live. Have them look in Buffalo CO.
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All those gentlemen have good reputaions for improving game herds. Kroll does talk to and listen to hunters. Perhaps if wis.G&F implement their suggestions things will improve.
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No deer experts invading here. NC Wildlife Resources Commission couldn't care less about deer.
Gloria In Excelsis Deo!As far as gear goes.. The poorer (or cheaper) you are, the tougher you need to be. gpopecustomknives.com
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Dr. Kroll is one of the best in the business, WI should be thankful that he has been sought out to offer insight. Be patient, it'll take time but things will improve.
Not unlike MN, I hope northern WI figures out a plan to deal with wolves, they are a huge problem.
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My problem with the current deer management thinking for most F&W guys is they ask would you like to have more trophy bucks? Obviously the answer is yes sure!!! The disconnect is they don't ask is do you want more trophy bucks if it means more restrictive regs. less deer and you might collect a deer only every 3-5years vs every year. What hunters are really saying is yes sure I would like to collect a trophy buck every year.
Last edited by bangeye; 11/13/11.
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so a politician makes a promise to try and fix a declining deer situation if elected.
he gets elected, and pretty promptly brings in 3 outside experts in the field to collect data and make recommendations.
one of said experts is spending time traveling around the state, gauging the public's opinions.
and you're pissed because the guy brought his wife? and even though there hasn't been any recommendations made, one person is already second guessing them? i'm sorry, but it sounds to me like somebody just needs something to fuss about.
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so a politician makes a promise to try and fix a declining deer situation if elected.
he gets elected, and pretty promptly brings in 3 outside experts in the field to collect data and make recommendations.
one of said experts is spending time traveling around the state, gauging the public's opinions.
and you're pissed because the guy brought his wife? and even though there hasn't been any recommendations made, one person is already second guessing them? i'm sorry, but it sounds to me like somebody just needs something to fuss about. Contrary to your statement that the experts are here to collect data, the experts are here to analyze the yearly data collected by the WIDNR as part of the 15 year deer management plan that began in 1998. This plan relies heavily on a Sex-Age-Kill (SAK)formula to determine deer management unit population goals. The data shows that this formula was working quite well until four main events occured. 1) Chronic wasting disease(CWD)emerged in the southern deer herd 2001-2002. The response was to establish a scorched earth plan to kill as many deer as possible. 2)WIDNR underestimated the burgeoning Black bear population in the northern counties. 3) WIDNR underestimates the burgeoning Wolf population in the northern counties and the Fed's delisting of Wolves continues to get derailed in the court system. 4) Old school wildlife managers and wardens with their boots on the ground were retiring. They worked close to the environment and people in it. For the most part they have been replaced by smart, intelligent individuals with arrogance and the lack of social skills. The WIDNR continued to set liberal DMU population goals ignoring the impact of the four events. The experts were not hired to gauge public opinion rather to analyze and make science based recommendations. We have public fish and game hearings in this state. That is where public opinion should be noted...that is where consensus forms and takes on revelance. And, yeah, I am pissed that he is hobnobbing around the state with his wife. That expense could be put to better use within the budget cap that was established. The good Dr. should have his sleeves rolled up pouring over data and procedures.
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Regretfully,it sounds like the sickness of land owners charging by the deer B&C score will be coming to a neighborhood near you.
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I don't have a problem AT ALL that he brought his wife. Where does it say he's spending your tax dollars on her? If I was going to be away from home for a signifigant amount of time and could bring my family, you could bet your arse I'd be doing it. I miss them when I'm gone for even a few days.
He is also doing this in the middle of a hunting season...A great time to be out asking hunters about hunting and what they're seeing IMO.
How can you be reasonably complaining about what he's doing when he hasn't given out any info about it yet?
I think you're jumping the gun here a little bit.
Camp is where you make it.
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To a certain extent it is happening already, at least in my neck of the woods. The limiting factor is deer can jump a 51" fence. 
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I don't have a problem AT ALL that he brought his wife. Where does it say he's spending your tax dollars on her? If I was going to be away from home for a signifigant amount of time and could bring my family, you could bet your arse I'd be doing it. I miss them when I'm gone for even a few days.
He is also doing this in the middle of a hunting season...A great time to be out asking hunters about hunting and what they're seeing IMO.
How can you be reasonably complaining about what he's doing when he hasn't given out any info about it yet?
I think you're jumping the gun here a little bit. Valid questions and comments. I contacted some of my sources that are close to this imported expert business. 1) I quote: "Lodging, meals and transportation expense falls under the budgeted amount for the consulting. Dr. Kroll and his wife are not here on his dime." 2) "Dr. Kroll and others are here on a consulting retainer to analyze deer management program and make recommendations if warranted. They were not contracted for public relations." IMO, Dr. Kroll and others were hired to analyze the deer program with an emphasis on science based outcomes, not public opinion. Opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one. We have to rely on science based research and a strong dose of common sense. In addition, we need more wardens and wildlife specialst boots on the ground, not DNR managers in high places. (Credit due - DNR is hiring)Listening to public opinions, especially from deer hunters gives us "pillar to post" decisions. As a deer hunter and taxpayer I expect the experts to hit the ground running in analysis of existing data and practices...not running a public listening campaign.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'll give ya #2.
I think a large part of managing the deer herd is managing the deer hunters. They can listen to the hunters, but don't have to do what is asked by them.
I think if the consultants are truthful, and not arrogant towards the hunters, unlike the WIDNR has been as of late, it will go a long ways toward PR, even if the ideas and concerns of the hunting public isn't fully addressed.
I understand you can't have both.
Last edited by tzone; 11/15/11.
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This $2 a piece additional antlerless tags is what really pisses me off.
I am admittedly one of the least successful deer hunters you will ever meet. I just enjoy the sport and am working to get better by making more of an effort. I like the fact that we have a choice in our zone so if I see a deer i can shoot it, but with this additional tag BS it pretty much insures that anything brown is going down including the runt yearlings...
Let's look at adding access to some of our state and county parks and urban areas on a limited basis for bowhunters. This is where the overpopulation and property damage stems from...
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One only needs to take a look at the political party that was in power during the downfall of the DNR. The party that is forever looking down their noses at the "Common Folk". No wonder the DNR became a bunch of arrogant @ssholes.
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so a politician makes a promise to try and fix a declining deer situation if elected.
he gets elected, and pretty promptly brings in 3 outside experts in the field to collect data and make recommendations.
one of said experts is spending time traveling around the state, gauging the public's opinions.
and you're pissed because the guy brought his wife? and even though there hasn't been any recommendations made, one person is already second guessing them? i'm sorry, but it sounds to me like somebody just needs something to fuss about. Contrary to your statement that the experts are here to collect data, the experts are here to analyze the yearly data collected by the WIDNR as part of the 15 year deer management plan that began in 1998. This plan relies heavily on a Sex-Age-Kill (SAK)formula to determine deer management unit population goals. The data shows that this formula was working quite well until four main events occured. 1) Chronic wasting disease(CWD)emerged in the southern deer herd 2001-2002. The response was to establish a scorched earth plan to kill as many deer as possible. 2)WIDNR underestimated the burgeoning Black bear population in the northern counties. 3) WIDNR underestimates the burgeoning Wolf population in the northern counties and the Fed's delisting of Wolves continues to get derailed in the court system. 4) Old school wildlife managers and wardens with their boots on the ground were retiring. They worked close to the environment and people in it. For the most part they have been replaced by smart, intelligent individuals with arrogance and the lack of social skills. The WIDNR continued to set liberal DMU population goals ignoring the impact of the four events. The experts were not hired to gauge public opinion rather to analyze and make science based recommendations. We have public fish and game hearings in this state. That is where public opinion should be noted...that is where consensus forms and takes on revelance. And, yeah, I am pissed that he is hobnobbing around the state with his wife. That expense could be put to better use within the budget cap that was established. The good Dr. should have his sleeves rolled up pouring over data and procedures. The part that you missed here was that EAB was not a DNR program. It was foisted on to the public by, guess who? The Legislature. That's right, the same bafoons that are changing all the rules now. Good old Government can and has [bleep] up wet dreams, deer don't stand a chance.
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yeah PA guys do bitch a lot about the deer rules. I know I grew up there then realized I needed to get the hell out.
Here's my take of having experts come in and work on PA's issues.
Mr. Alt had a good plan and it worked. Even though the PA people say it didn't. The trouble with these plans they develop is they are based on the data collected for the sportsman and the numbers and sexes of deer harvested. In PA you have a TON of people who kill at will and as many as they feel they are entitled to and never report it.
Now if the good ole boys in PA would have been honest from the jump maybe things would turned out better.
Bringing in experts that have dedicated their careers in game management isn't a bad thing. What they need to make a good plan though is accurate data.
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