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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 52
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 52 |
Me and my group hunted near Chitek Lake a week ago and we were surprised by the lack of good big bucks. Hunting guides kept saying it was the warm wearther and the full moon. But this week turned much colder and the moon is waning, but hunters there this week are having poor luck too. What is this? Did that area have a heavy winter kill, like in 2006 & 07, and the guides didn't want the word to get out before the hunt? Any comments from local residents and hunters would be appreciated.
Joe
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268 |
Things could be worse... Here in BC the wolves are eating everything!!!
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 13
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Oct 2011
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Yes, I understand what you are saying. We imported wolves in the l990's and turned them loose in Yellowstone Park. They have destroyed a wonderful herd of elk, and moved on out all over Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Washington and Oregon. Best solution is treat them like Canada does. SOS!
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,325
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
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There was very heavy winterkill in 2007 in the forest fringe areas of the Eastern half of the province. They got hammered again last year along the entire forest fringe and most of southern Sask. Deer numbers at our camp on the South edge of the Porcupine provincial forest are about 10% of what they were 5 years ago. Deep snow years are pretty tough on the trophy deer, the biggest bucks get worn out from breeding season and are more vulnerable. So, you were not imagining it, things have changed. I've posted this picture before, but this is what we used to enjoy, we will need to be patient and have a couple good winters in a row to get high numbers of nice bucks like these again. From 2004: my son and and I with bucks from 4 hunters, four days, taking any mature buck that came along... ![[Linked Image]](http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p287/longwalker_photos/SKBucks04.jpg)
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 52
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 52 |
Thanks castnblast for confirming this year's winter kill. Your pix looks like others my gang took before 2007. Yep I was there for the 2007 hunt and also 2008, and it was pretty bad. Very very few mature bucks to be seen. Sounds like we're back into another one. These winter kills seem to be a state secret amongst the outfitters. Nary a word when hunters are booking. Then plenty of excuses like the warm weather, full moon, rut isn't started yet, should have been her last week\next week, etc during the hunt. But when their hunters get back to to the airport for the flight out, compare notes, they find out something is very wrong at most all the camps. And of course the Sask Ministry of Environment keeps winter kills close to the chest. The Hunters Guide issued this year only has a brief commnet about quota reductions. You have to search the Sask Env web site to get a hint. Sask Env and the outfitters think it's better to get the US money up north, and have disappointed hunters go home, than to have the hunters cancel out on their bookings. Yep it's all a game. Too bad there's no truth in advertising law when it comes to outfitted hunts. Nope I'm not looking for a guaranteed trophy, only ask that the people honestly tell you as much as they know about anything that might affect the hunt.
Joe
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,325
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,325 |
I just came back from three days of hunting deer/moose on the S edge of the porcupine provincial forest. Our group actually saw more moose than deer. Shot one bull. All I saw in the three days was two whitetails, both medium sized bucks. I was told that all outfitters in the area were issued "extra" trophy WT tags this year. Doesn't make sense to me given the current population.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Winter kill is a fact of life for those addicted to Canadian deer hunting...it comes and goes,and the trick is to pay attention, and catch things on the upbound.
A string of mild winters can turn things around in a hurry.
I am hearing similar things in parts of Alberta...compounded by too many wolves.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 103
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 103 |
Thanks castnblast for confirming this year's winter kill. Your pix looks like others my gang took before 2007. Yep I was there for the 2007 hunt and also 2008, and it was pretty bad. Very very few mature bucks to be seen. Sounds like we're back into another one. These winter kills seem to be a state secret amongst the outfitters. Nary a word when hunters are booking. Then plenty of excuses like the warm weather, full moon, rut isn't started yet, should have been her last week\next week, etc during the hunt. But when their hunters get back to to the airport for the flight out, compare notes, they find out something is very wrong at most all the camps. And of course the Sask Ministry of Environment keeps winter kills close to the chest. The Hunters Guide issued this year only has a brief commnet about quota reductions. You have to search the Sask Env web site to get a hint. Sask Env and the outfitters think it's better to get the US money up north, and have disappointed hunters go home, than to have the hunters cancel out on their bookings. Yep it's all a game. Too bad there's no truth in advertising law when it comes to outfitted hunts. Nope I'm not looking for a guaranteed trophy, only ask that the people honestly tell you as much as they know about anything that might affect the hunt.
Joe Would you have still gone on the hunt had the outfitter told you shortly before your arrival that there was severe winter kill? If not, would you have wanted your money back? It's difficult to get an idea of how many deer died during the previous winter, we don't ever see many mature bucks during spring and summer so the first general population indicators are in or about October. There are good years and bad years, that's why it's called hunting. The pic posted by castnblast is a nice one, but certainly not in any way indicative of an average year. Lastly, I have to ask why you went back when your 2007 and 2008 hunts were bad?
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 52
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 52 |
Yah of course we would meet our commitment to hunt, what do you think, we would back out and leave the outfitter hanging? By the same token we expect the outfitters to be straight up with us, and not set us up for unrealistic expectations. BTW, Ive hunted in Sk for almost 20 years now and will again as long as I can. This thread isn't about backing out when the going is tough, it's about honesty and integrity by the outfitters and the Sask Environment Ministry. You sound like a guide or outfitter. Surely you know most all the deer outfitters have armloads of trail cameras, and by a month before the season they know the big deer numbers and pretty much their range. You said October and that's about right. Okay,if you know in October the big deer aren't there, do you tell your hunters about a likely winter kill, or do you paint a rosey picture and let them find out it isn't so rosey by for themselves? What do you think your hunters think of you in the 1st or the 2nd scenarios?
Joe
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 103
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2001
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Yah of course we would meet our commitment to hunt, what do you think, we would back out and leave the outfitter hanging? By the same token we expect the outfitters to be straight up with us, and not set us up for unrealistic expectations. BTW, Ive hunted in Sk for almost 20 years now and will again as long as I can. This thread isn't about backing out when the going is tough, it's about honesty and integrity by the outfitters and the Sask Environment Ministry. You sound like a guide or outfitter. Surely you know most all the deer outfitters have armloads of trail cameras, and by a month before the season they know the big deer numbers and pretty much their range. You said October and that's about right. Okay,if you know in October the big deer aren't there, do you tell your hunters about a likely winter kill, or do you paint a rosey picture and let them find out it isn't so rosey by for themselves? What do you think your hunters think of you in the 1st or the 2nd scenarios?
Joe You're right, one must be honest. I also wouldn't refund any money as the situation is out of the outfitter's control. the outfitters think it's better to get the US money up north, and have disappointed hunters go home, than to have the hunters cancel out on their bookings Your post sure sounded like you were blaming the outfitter for the lack of deer sightings, sorry if I offended you and misunderstood.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,653 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,653 Likes: 1 |
Never get tired of looking at that pict.  I hunted in SK a couple of weeks back. (Carrot River area to be exact) I saw quite a few deer and a lot of young bucks. (1.5 year olds - and, granted this is guarding a pile of hay and grain so deer are centralized) What was missing, was the 3.5 year old age class of deer. (and beyond) In the past, it was nothing to see at least one of those a day, oftentimes more. Fingers crossed for a couple of mild winters. Outfitters up there need it, and, I want to keep coming back.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128 |
What is this? Did that area have a heavy winter kill, like in 2006 & 07, Joe I have been thinking it might take up to five years for the herd to recover from the severe '07 winter. It is too bad they had another one since then. bobinNH, I think you are hearing correctly I was in a camp near Calling Lake, AB during Thanksgiving week. I heard wolves howling from several different stand locations every day. Fourteen hunters shot eight bucks and three wolves. Several returning hunters that had shot giants in previous years did not see anything bigger than 160 and didn't shoot. I personally didn't see anything big and didn't shoot either. This is from a camp that has a history of at least a few over 200 deer each season, except it is now different. If there were no more deep snow winters in a perfect world, how long do you think it would take to have an area producing real giants again?
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,703 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,703 Likes: 1 |
3 to 4 years ,,i watched on my land in southern BC after 96-97 .befor that i could count over 100 deer in early spring on a southern feeding slope after that winter kill it was hard to count 30,the next year . probably climbed about 12-15 deer more every year but it took a while longer for the buck pop to show the larger ones. During that time we kept the yote pop down to just a few animals to control mice and such
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle----Robert Alden .
If it wern't entertaining, I wouldn't keep coming back.------the BigSky
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128 |
Thanks Norm very useful info.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,394
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,394 |
Had a Kansas ML deer hunt booked with a bunch of buds for this season, outfitter called me up and said it sucks here , he said you're welcome to come if you want or I can save the same timeframe for next season what ever you want to do . I never hunted with this guy before . I appreciate the fact that he was considerate enough to be stand up about the whole thing. Kudos to him.
I Kill Things......deal with it..
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128 |
Yep, it was very considerate, plus if the herd is down and he brings in a lot of hunters it just compounds the problem long term.
The problem must have been related to the drought.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Had a Kansas ML deer hunt booked with a bunch of buds for this season, outfitter called me up and said it sucks here , he said you're welcome to come if you want or I can save the same timeframe for next season what ever you want to do . I never hunted with this guy before . I appreciate the fact that he was considerate enough to be stand up about the whole thing. Kudos to him. I guy like that would have my business for a very long time
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813 |
Just when I was thinking about stratching a Canadian Whitetail itch.
OK, where for big forest Whitetail?
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,394
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,394 |
Just when I was thinking about stratching a Canadian Whitetail itch.
OK, where for big forest Whitetail? re read castnblasts post and don't go there sask is a big place
I Kill Things......deal with it..
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,177 Likes: 20
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,177 Likes: 20 |
I had a similar experience as OldJoe in southwestern Manitoba in the 1990's. The winter before was a really bad one, with lots of snow and temperatures down to -60 F. I told the two guys who'd invited me on the hunt about it, but they weren't worried, as the outfitter said there were still plenty of deer.
Well, there weren't. The biggest buck any of the four our guys on the hunt saw was a 4x5 that maybe scored 130. I rattled him in the first day of the hunt, and passed, as the outfitter said nothing less than a big 5x5 should even be considered. There were a few younger bucks and does. One of the other guys shot a young buck midway through the hunt, but none of the rest of us got deer. I was even willing to shoot a big doe just for the meat by the end of the hunt, but evidently all the does heard me thinking and disappeared.
It was a waste of time and money, but the outfitter should have been honest about the situation. Instead he told the same story about the rut being late--it was the third week in November, and the buck I rattled in was definitely on the prowl. In fact he even worked over a scrape while I watched him.
Yes, winterkill is always possible when booking a deer hunt in Canada. I've hunted from Antocosti Island to Alberta and it happens. It would be nice if more outfitters were honest about it.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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