|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
One of these days Jerry, when I get FULL blown Loonyism, I am going to get myself a 6.5BR  ... maybe w/a Grape McSwirly like 257s rifle posted under the custom forum. Got close once, logic stepped in - 7BR brass stamped made, and no custom priced dies......and it did whatever it was asked....although as a 7BR rifle, repeater at that, my M7 always made me think, WHAT IF it were 'KOOLER' and was a SIX point FIVE BR! Lol. Later, Arne Brennan and another fellow did a 6.5 Grendel, now LBC-AR, another did a 264 RLB on a 6.8 case and of course NOW we have the Lapua 6.5-47 Lapua, running right w the 260, 6.5 SE, abd Creedmoor. SOoooo, Jerry, I think searching for that 'Road less traveled' I will build a REAL Loony rifle someday, a 6.5BR and it may well be in a platform that is also on a less traveled road. A few wanting KOOL are running 223s w/Barnes, or fast twist and Swift SSIIs or Amax's....and Kill just fine, just like others who stay on the interstate running 30-06s, etc. Comments below are to anyone.. ALL roads usually lead to the same destination, it's the Journey that one gets the most satisfaction. When comparing rounds......it's not a matter of who wins in a ballistics race. What DOES matter, does it do what YOU want and need it to do. Applies to guns, scopes, etc. Does it work for YOU? Tis the ? For hunting, that usually means quick clean kills. MOST rounds w/proper bullets steered right, 'Get R Done!' as JB says...more or less  I just desire to get the job done w/minimal fuss or pain to my ears and shoulders. A 270 really is a pleasant round, as a 7/08, yet a 260 or similar 6.5 has a little more 'Pleasant Factor' when firing. Reducing recoil, blast, and extending barrel life and component dollars does not have to = reduced effectiveness afield. I analyze, crunch numbers, and research too and learn alot by it all, yet in the end Ballistics and Gack never killed a thing. One only needs to look at the 6.5 Grendel forum to see what their 'Undersized capacity 6.5s' are killing, and how far
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 137
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 137 |
im looking for less recoil in an elk rifle.i hear the 264 mag rocks,and am checking out the 257 wb.hows the recoil on the 264?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,323
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,323 |
I have a pre-64 Model 70 in 264 with the 26" barrel and recoil is very mild with 140gr. bullets. Rifle is pretty heavy with a 3X12 Burris Signature. I'd say it's about on par with a 30-06 and 150 grainers.
`Bring Enough Gun`
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
my go to rifle is a Kimber Montana in 260......love the gun and is prolly the only one ill never sell.....with good bullets im not afraid to go after elk though i mainly use it for deer, speed goats and yotes......
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 592
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 592 |
6.5mm seems to be the point where real hunting rifles start for me. Bullet choice is excellent. Recoil is mild. It is my favourite and most used deer calibre - plenty of gun for all but the largest of deer. Combine a 6.5mm and a 8.5mm, and you have everything covered.
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,412
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,412 |
Years ago I used a 6.5x55 Swede on an Alpine Chamois hunt. Recoil is mild. Very accurate. In Scandinavia it is the prefered moose round. It compares very well with my .270. I would take it anywhere I would take my .270. In fact I am looking for a donor LH action now to do a build on a 6.5x55 Swede. I have also seen it used on boar hunts - it is very effective.
SCI Life Member
DAV Life Member
NRA Life Member
North American Hunt Club Life Member
Your true character shows in your conduct
You cannot solve a problem at the same level of awareness that created it - Einstein
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935 |
R270Man, The 6.5s have never been as popular as the .270 Win and .30-'06 fro hunting in this country, but they are very effective rifle hunting cartridges. I killed my first deer with a 6.5X55, so I think I got warped early. My favorite is a 6.5-'06 I built as a custom rifle about six coons' ages ago, which still kills them dead, only now I have been shooting 130 gr Berger VLD bullets from it instead of the 140 gr Hornady Spire Point bullets I started hunting with it. The plusses are mostly ballistic advantages, while the negatives are mostly ease of use. If you compare to the .270 Win, it is pretty easy to go that route, but you have to really want to hunt with the 6.5s to get there from here. Maybe if JOC had written more about his experience with the .256 Newton we would be somewhere else, but it was not to be. jim
LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,741
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,741 |
I have experience with three 6.5's, 264WM, 6.5x06 and my current 6.5x55. I shot the 6.5x06 a lot, fried the barrel. I killed lots of stuff with it. In the end it's no better than the .270 it so often gets compared to. But so what. I might get another some day just because. I currently load for and shoot a 6.5x55 a good bit, as I age I am less and less willing to put up with recoil so I'm using this little Ruger a lot. It's the most accurate factory rifle I own. I've seen that with the 140gr bullets it trajectory it almost the same as the .06 with the 165gr bullets, but with much less recoil. I don't see a down side.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,000
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,000 |
I have a custom Arisaka carbine in 6.5x50mm that I have
been meaning to sight in and take deer hunting but havent
done it yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,237
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,237 |
The most successful hunter I know, a man with a number of 30+ inch mule deer, and many other trophies, uses a 264 Winchester for everything. Hard to argue with success.
Ignorance is not confined to uneducated people.
WHO IS JOHN GALT?
LIBERTY!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,007
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,007 |
Don't hear a ton of talk about 6.5s on the WSM - either based on the 270 or 7. Any particular reason?
Me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,538
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,538 |
flattop - still not arguing either. If you will compare 6.5 & 270 bullets with similar S Ds (sectional densities) you'll find the B Cs (ballistic coefficients) are awfully close. A few gun writers pointed out the accurate way to compare cals/cart.s yrs. ago. Then with the heavier 270 bullets you'll have similar trajectories and BETTER wind bucking, & have more fpe, because they're heavier. I am NOT trying to put down the 6.5s at all. It is not an equal comparison to base the comparison on bullet weight alone. That would amount to 'ballistic gack'.  The 260 & 6.5s are FINE hunting cartridges. They're just not as strong as some. I find this to be categorically not true. The SD of the 6.5mm bullets are as follows: 120g-0.246, 130g-0.266, 140g-0.287. The .270 bullets: 130g-0.242, 140g-0.261, 150g-0.279. The BCs of Berger bullets in 6.5mm: 130g-0.552, 140g-0.612. In .270: 130g-0.452, 140g-0.487, 150g-0.531. So lets pick bullets of similar SDs to compare. Since a 120g hunting bullet from Berger is not available in 6.5mm, lets compare the 130g bullet in 6.5mm to the 140g bullet in .270. SDs are 0.266 vs 0.261 respectively. On the Nosler website, the 6.5-06 lists a max velocity of 3058 fps with 23" barrel and a 130g bullet. The .270 Winchester max velocity with 140g bullet of 2910 fps with 24" barrel. So using the BC information of both bullets at those starting velocities here are the ballistics according to JBM with a 100 yard zero and a 10 mph 90 degree cross wind. 300 yards the 130g 6.5mm bullet drops 10"/3.2MOA, drifts 4.8"/1.5MOA with energy of 1894 ft/lbs. The 140g .270 bullets drops 11.8"/3.7MOA, drifts 6"/1.9MOA with 1740 ft/lbs. At 600 yards, the 6.5mm bullet drops 66.9"/10.6MOA and drifts 21.3"/3.4MOA with 1282 ft/lbs, the .270 bullet drops 79"/12.6MOA and drifts 26.8"/4.3MOA with 1098 ft/lbs. So the 6.5 mm have a higher BCs than the .270 bullets at similar SDs. They will drop/drift less and have higher retained ft/lbs than the .270 bullets started at similar velocities due to the higher BCs. The data above shows that ballistically the 6.5-06 is a better chambering than the .270 Winchester. Not sure the differences are enough to matter to anyone, but the data seems to argue directly with your post.
Last edited by kyreloader; 11/19/11.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
[quote=jwall]flattop - still not arguing either. If you will compare 6.5 & 270 bullets with similar S Ds (sectional densities) you'll find the B Cs (ballistic coefficients) are awfully close. A few gun writers pointed out the accurate way to compare cals/cart.s yrs. ago. Then with the heavier 270 bullets you'll have similar trajectories and BETTER wind bucking, & have more fpe, because they're heavier. I am NOT trying to put down the 6.5s at all. It is not an equal comparison to base the comparison on bullet weight alone. That would amount to 'ballistic gack'. The 260 & 6.5s are FINE hunting cartridges. They're just not as strong as some. I find this to be categorically not true. The SD of the 6.5mm bullets are as follows: 120g-0.246, 130g-0.266, 140g-0.287. The .270 bullets: 130g-0.242, 140g-0.261, 150g-0.279. The BCs of Berger bullets in 6.5mm: 130g-0.552, 140g-0.612. In .270: 130g-0.452, 140g-0.487, 150g-0.531. So lets pick bullets of similar SDs to compare. Since a hunting bullet from Berger is not available in 6.5mm, lets compare the 130g bullet in 6.5mm to the 140g bullet in .270. SDs are 0.266 vs 0.261 respectively. On the Nosler website, the 6.5-06 lists a max velocity of 3058 fps with 23" barrel and a 130g bullet. The .270 Winchester max velocity with 140g bullet of 2910 fps with 24" barrel. So using the BC information of both bullets at those starting velocities here are the ballistics according to JBM with a 100 yard zero and a 10 mph 90 degree cross wind. 300 yards the 130g 6.5mm bullet drops 10"/3.2MOA, drifts 4.8"/1.5MOA with energy of 1894 ft/lbs. The 140g .270 bullets drops 11.8"/3.7MOA, drifts 6"/1.9MOA with 1740 ft/lbs. At 600 yards, the 6.5mm bullet drops 66.9"/10.6MOA and drifts 21.3"/3.4MOA with 1282 ft/lbs, the .270 bullet drops 79"/12.6MOA and drifts 26.8"/4.3MOA with 1098 ft/lbs. So the 6.5 mm have a higher BCs than the .270 bullets at similar SDs. They will drop/drift less and have higher retained ft/lbs than the .270 bullets started at similar velocities due to the higher BCs. The data above shows that ballistically the 6.5-06 is a better chambering than the .270 Winchester. Not sure the differences are enough to matter to anyone, but the data seems to argue directly with your post.[/quote This a short response for now. (Upper Case for EMPHASIS only) 1. You think .005 diff is much between 130 6.5 & 140 270? 2. I notice you didn't print any diff in B C between the two. 3. There's always difference in loading manuals PER velocity. I have been able to beat 2910 fps /140gr in 270 closer to 3000 fps w/appropriate powders & 24" bll. 4. With SIMILAR s d & bc - the heavier bullet will have SIMILAR trajectory and have higher energy because of wt. 5. I know this thread is about 6.5s & hunting; My part focused on 6.5X55, 6.5 Creed, & 260 Rem. YES the 6.5-06 is MUCH MORE comparable to 270 in powder capacity and vel. et.al. I just returned from hunting (saw nothing). I have to get ready for some company. Will respond more later. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,034
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,034 |
Since a hunting bullet from Berger is not available in 6.5mm..... Do you consider the 6.5mm 140 Hunting vld to be "not a hunting bullet?"
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,538
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,538 |
Since a hunting bullet from Berger is not available in 6.5mm..... Do you consider the 6.5mm 140 Hunting vld to be "not a hunting bullet?" It should have read, since a 120g hunting bullet from Berger is not available in 6.5mm.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,538
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,538 |
[quote=jwall]flattop - still not arguing either. If you will compare 6.5 & 270 bullets with similar S Ds (sectional densities) you'll find the B Cs (ballistic coefficients) are awfully close. A few gun writers pointed out the accurate way to compare cals/cart.s yrs. ago. Then with the heavier 270 bullets you'll have similar trajectories and BETTER wind bucking, & have more fpe, because they're heavier. I am NOT trying to put down the 6.5s at all. It is not an equal comparison to base the comparison on bullet weight alone. That would amount to 'ballistic gack'. The 260 & 6.5s are FINE hunting cartridges. They're just not as strong as some. I find this to be categorically not true. The SD of the 6.5mm bullets are as follows: 120g-0.246, 130g-0.266, 140g-0.287. The .270 bullets: 130g-0.242, 140g-0.261, 150g-0.279. The BCs of Berger bullets in 6.5mm: 130g-0.552, 140g-0.612. In .270: 130g-0.452, 140g-0.487, 150g-0.531. So lets pick bullets of similar SDs to compare. Since a hunting bullet from Berger is not available in 6.5mm, lets compare the 130g bullet in 6.5mm to the 140g bullet in .270. SDs are 0.266 vs 0.261 respectively. On the Nosler website, the 6.5-06 lists a max velocity of 3058 fps with 23" barrel and a 130g bullet. The .270 Winchester max velocity with 140g bullet of 2910 fps with 24" barrel. So using the BC information of both bullets at those starting velocities here are the ballistics according to JBM with a 100 yard zero and a 10 mph 90 degree cross wind. 300 yards the 130g 6.5mm bullet drops 10"/3.2MOA, drifts 4.8"/1.5MOA with energy of 1894 ft/lbs. The 140g .270 bullets drops 11.8"/3.7MOA, drifts 6"/1.9MOA with 1740 ft/lbs. At 600 yards, the 6.5mm bullet drops 66.9"/10.6MOA and drifts 21.3"/3.4MOA with 1282 ft/lbs, the .270 bullet drops 79"/12.6MOA and drifts 26.8"/4.3MOA with 1098 ft/lbs. So the 6.5 mm have a higher BCs than the .270 bullets at similar SDs. They will drop/drift less and have higher retained ft/lbs than the .270 bullets started at similar velocities due to the higher BCs. The data above shows that ballistically the 6.5-06 is a better chambering than the .270 Winchester. Not sure the differences are enough to matter to anyone, but the data seems to argue directly with your post.[/quote This a short response for now. (Upper Case for EMPHASIS only) 1. You think .005 diff is much between 130 6.5 & 140 270? Do you think 0.005 is much difference b/t the SDs of the two bullets? The difference b/t the 140g 6.5mm and the 150g .270 was greater than my example, that is why I choose my example.2. I notice you didn't print any diff in B C between the two. I printed the differences in BC above in my original post. The 130g 6.5mm bullet has a BC of 0.552, the 140g .270 bullet has a BC of 0.487. The 150g .270 bullet does not have a BC equal to that of the 130g 6.5mm bullet.3. There's always difference in loading manuals PER velocity. I have been able to beat 2910 fps /140gr in 270 closer to 3000 fps w/appropriate powders & 24" bll. If that is the case, I am sure the same argument can be made for the 6.5-06 being able to be pushed faster than the 3058 fps listed in my example.4. With SIMILAR s d & bc - the heavier bullet will have SIMILAR trajectory and have higher energy because of wt. The formula for energy is 1/2 mass times velocity squared. The heavier bullet has more energy pending the velocity of the projectile. In our case, the 6.5mm bullet is going 2561 fps at 300y and 2108 fps at 600 yards, the .270 bullet 2366 and 1879 fps respectively. Therefore, since the less mass bullet is going faster, the energy is higher for the less mass bullet since velocity is squared. BC is what is important for retained velocity/energy and trajectory. The point is that bullets of similar SDs between the 6.5 and .270 do not have similar BCs. The 6.5mm BCs are higher.5. I know this thread is about 6.5s & hunting; My part focused on 6.5X55, 6.5 Creed, & 260 Rem. YES the 6.5-06 is MUCH MORE comparable to 270 in powder capacity and vel. et.al. Shouldn't we be comparing the two calibers in chamberings with similar case capacity? Also, lets compare the 260 Rem with 130g Bergers at Nosler max velocity of 2838 fps. Here are the results: 260 Rem at 300 yards-12.2"/3.9 drop and 5.4"/1.7MOA drift, 600 yards- 79.9"/12.7 drop and 24"/3.8MOA drift. Retained velocity/energy at 300/600 yards are 2361fps/1609 ft/lbs and 1929fps/1074 ft/lbs. So, the .270 Win is 0.4"/0.2MOA flatter with 0.6"/0.2MOA more wind drift to 300 yards with similar fps (2366 vs 2361) and 131 more ft/lbs. At 600 yards, the .270 Win is 0.9"/0.1MOA flatter with 2.8"/0.5MOA more wind drift with 24 more fps and 50 more ft/lbs. Basically, ballistically the .260 Rem shooting a 130g Berger hunting VLD at 2838 fps is nearly identical to a .270 Win shooting a 140g Berger hunting VLD at 2910 fps.I just returned from hunting (saw nothing). I have to get ready for some company. Will respond more later. Jerry
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,081
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,081 |
Can you please tell me about the 6.5mm's for hunting. The positive & negatives of these calibers. Thanks. The 6.5 caliber performs more like the 7mm than it does the 6mm. The response from game well hit, will be more uniform in the results than the 6mm and indistinguishable from the .270 or 7mm's. I doubt there will be any negative comments from experienced users. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197 |
![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/mdbuck2011049.jpg) Use it with complete confidence....My lightweight GAP .260 put down five big game animals this past fall with one shot each, from 125 to 470 meters. From what I saw, it kills exactly like a .270, with less recoil and muzzle blast. I used the 130gr. Berger hunting VLD's at 3000fps.
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,185
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,185 |
Other than the 300 SAUM I now own, I'm trending toward lighter calibers and less recoil.
I have a bunch of years under my belt shooting and hunting with a 6.5-06 and I think it's one of the best 6.5's you could build.
I've killed deer down to chucks with it and a variety of bullets. Though I'd run the 120 NBT or 130 ABm pretty much full time if I build another one.
Which I will.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
The 6.5 caliber performs more like the 7mm than it does the 6mm. The response from game well hit, will be more uniform in the results than the 6mm and indistinguishable from the .270 or 7mm's.
I doubt there will be any negative comments from experienced users.
John
THANKS JOHN for you validation. I think that sums is up accurately from 'some experienced source'.
Last edited by jwall; 11/19/11.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
|
|
|
|
|
594 members (10gaugeman, 1beaver_shooter, 160user, 16penny, 1936M71, 55 invisible),
2,585
guests, and
1,344
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,712
Posts18,475,474
Members73,941
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
