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Steadily, and tenaciously, we carve our way into the issue of State's Rights.

"Perez said the government will take �appropriate action� if it finds violations of civil rights laws.

Several Alabama school districts, citing the state education department�s initial recommendation, said they would not comply with Perez�s request."


This is the real deal, folks.

GTC

Quote
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...IQAhEkeUN_story.html?tid=pm_politics_pop

Justice Dept. dispute with Alabama over illegal-immigration law intensifies

By Jerry Markon, Published: November 17

The Obama administration�s legal campaign against restrictive state immigration laws has led to a bitter standoff in Alabama, where Justice Department attorneys are investigating possible civil rights violations.

The federal government already has sued Alabama over its new law, one of three such lawsuits against states that have cracked down on illegal immigration. Now, the Justice Department has opened a civil rights investigation to monitor potential discrimination as parts of the Alabama law take effect.


The standoff has been over Justice�s request for detailed enrollment data from Alabama schools, part of the probe into complaints that the law has prompted Hispanic families to pull their children from school. But Alabama�s attorney general balked and, in a series of blunt replies, questioned the federal government�s authority to demand the information. The state education department had advised school districts not to comply, but this week expressed a willingness to cooperate.

The disagreement , which could lead to a second Justice Department lawsuit, comes after the administration last year sued Arizona and, two weeks ago, filed suit against South Carolina. Government lawyers are also considering challenges to laws in Utah, Georgia and Indiana.

The lawsuits have emerged as a key part of the administration�s efforts on immigration and could serve as a counterpoint to growing criticism in the Hispanic activist community over President Obama�s stepped-up deportation program.

The Alabama law is considered the toughest of six new state immigration statutes, which include provisions giving police new authority to question legal status, among other things.

The dispute has stirred memories of Alabama�s segregationist past, with accusations that the law targets Hispanics. A civil rights group compared Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange to then-Gov. George C. Wallace (D) in 1963 as he resisted federal efforts to enroll black students at the University of Alabama.

�The intemperate language of [Strange�s] letter does remind us of George Wallace in the schoolhouse door,� said Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which set up a hotline to monitor discrimination complaints over the immigration law. He said the hotline has received nearly 4,000 calls.

Strange, a Republican elected last year, vehemently rejected the Wallace comparison and said he would not tolerate discrimination. Supporters of the law defended the attorney general and said concerns about racial profiling of Hispanics are overstated.

�That�s a poisonous thing to say,� said Strange, who defeated Wallace�s son, George Wallace Jr., in a 2006 primary for lieutenant governor.

Legal experts say the level of federal intervention over the immigration laws is extraordinary, particularly since the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups have obtained rulings temporarily blocking all or key parts of the Utah, Georgia and Indiana measures. Federal courts also have blocked the most contested provisions of Arizona�s law.

The Alabama law passed in June after last year�s Republican sweep of the legislature. A federal appeals court last month temporarily blocked the most contested provision, which requires public schools to determine citizenship by seeking children�s birth certificates.

But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit allowed other parts to take effect, pending a more detailed review of the Justice Department�s appeal. Those include provisions requiring police to check immigration status if they stop someone while enforcing other laws and barring undocumented immigrants from entering into business transactions with the state or being party to a contract.

Civil rights groups say this has led to illegal immigrants being evicted from their homes, not getting paid for work and being unable to purchase some utilities. One victim of domestic violence complained that she wasn�t allowed to seek a protective order from a judge, who threatened to turn her in to authorities, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

�The law has had a chilling effect,� said Isabel Rubio, executive director of the Hispanic Interest Coalition of Alabama, who said some Hispanic families have left the state and others are signing custody of their children over to neighbors in case they are deported.

Thomas E. Perez, the Justice Department�s assistant attorney general for civil rights, said federal lawyers are investigating similar complaints, along with reports of racial profiling during traffic stops, Hispanic children being withdrawn from school and bullying of children who show up.

�There�s a real fear in these households,� he said in an interview.

Strange said his office had not heard of such complaints. And Kris Kobach, a senior Justice Department official in the George W. Bush administration who helped draft the Alabama law and is helping coordinate the state�s legal strategy, said the law prohibits consideration of race.

He dismissed reports of discrimination in Alabama as �ridiculous.�

On Nov. 1, Perez wrote to 39 Alabama school districts with significant Hispanic populations, seeking detailed data on student enrollment and absences and giving a Nov. 14 deadline. But Strange replied that Perez had not stated his legal authority to demand the information.

Perez cited a raft of civil rights and other federal laws; Strange replied that Justice had still asserted �no legal authority�� to obtain the data.

Alabama�s interim education superintendent, Larry E. Craven, advised noncompliance in a Nov. 2 letter to school districts. This week, in a letter to Perez, he offered to help districts respond but denied any discrimination in schools.

Perez said the government will take �appropriate action� if it finds violations of civil rights laws.

Several Alabama school districts, citing the state education department�s initial recommendation, said they would not comply with Perez�s request.

�Why should we do it if we�ve been told not to?� said Nancy Pierce, spokeswoman for Mobile County schools, who said pulling the data would be �extremely labor-intensive.�


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Steadily, and tenaciously, we carve our way into the issue of State's Rights.

"Perez said the government will take �appropriate action� if it finds violations of civil rights laws.

Several Alabama school districts, citing the state education department�s initial recommendation, said they would not comply with Perez�s request."


This is the real deal, folks.

GTC

Quote
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...IQAhEkeUN_story.html?tid=pm_politics_pop

Justice Dept. dispute with Alabama over illegal-immigration law intensifies

By Jerry Markon, Published: November 17

The Obama administration�s legal campaign against restrictive state immigration laws has led to a bitter standoff in Alabama, where Justice Department attorneys are investigating possible civil rights violations.

The federal government already has sued Alabama over its new law, one of three such lawsuits against states that have cracked down on illegal immigration. Now, the Justice Department has opened a civil rights investigation to monitor potential discrimination as parts of the Alabama law take effect.


The standoff has been over Justice�s request for detailed enrollment data from Alabama schools, part of the probe into complaints that the law has prompted Hispanic families to pull their children from school. But Alabama�s attorney general balked and, in a series of blunt replies, questioned the federal government�s authority to demand the information. The state education department had advised school districts not to comply, but this week expressed a willingness to cooperate.

The disagreement , which could lead to a second Justice Department lawsuit, comes after the administration last year sued Arizona and, two weeks ago, filed suit against South Carolina. Government lawyers are also considering challenges to laws in Utah, Georgia and Indiana.

The lawsuits have emerged as a key part of the administration�s efforts on immigration and could serve as a counterpoint to growing criticism in the Hispanic activist community over President Obama�s stepped-up deportation program.

The Alabama law is considered the toughest of six new state immigration statutes, which include provisions giving police new authority to question legal status, among other things.

The dispute has stirred memories of Alabama�s segregationist past, with accusations that the law targets Hispanics. A civil rights group compared Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange to then-Gov. George C. Wallace (D) in 1963 as he resisted federal efforts to enroll black students at the University of Alabama.

�The intemperate language of [Strange�s] letter does remind us of George Wallace in the schoolhouse door,� said Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which set up a hotline to monitor discrimination complaints over the immigration law. He said the hotline has received nearly 4,000 calls.

Strange, a Republican elected last year, vehemently rejected the Wallace comparison and said he would not tolerate discrimination. Supporters of the law defended the attorney general and said concerns about racial profiling of Hispanics are overstated.

�That�s a poisonous thing to say,� said Strange, who defeated Wallace�s son, George Wallace Jr., in a 2006 primary for lieutenant governor.

Legal experts say the level of federal intervention over the immigration laws is extraordinary, particularly since the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups have obtained rulings temporarily blocking all or key parts of the Utah, Georgia and Indiana measures. Federal courts also have blocked the most contested provisions of Arizona�s law.

The Alabama law passed in June after last year�s Republican sweep of the legislature. A federal appeals court last month temporarily blocked the most contested provision, which requires public schools to determine citizenship by seeking children�s birth certificates.

But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit allowed other parts to take effect, pending a more detailed review of the Justice Department�s appeal. Those include provisions requiring police to check immigration status if they stop someone while enforcing other laws and barring undocumented immigrants from entering into business transactions with the state or being party to a contract.

Civil rights groups say this has led to illegal immigrants being evicted from their homes, not getting paid for work and being unable to purchase some utilities. One victim of domestic violence complained that she wasn�t allowed to seek a protective order from a judge, who threatened to turn her in to authorities, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

�The law has had a chilling effect,� said Isabel Rubio, executive director of the Hispanic Interest Coalition of Alabama, who said some Hispanic families have left the state and others are signing custody of their children over to neighbors in case they are deported.

Thomas E. Perez, the Justice Department�s assistant attorney general for civil rights, said federal lawyers are investigating similar complaints, along with reports of racial profiling during traffic stops, Hispanic children being withdrawn from school and bullying of children who show up.

�There�s a real fear in these households,� he said in an interview.

Strange said his office had not heard of such complaints. And Kris Kobach, a senior Justice Department official in the George W. Bush administration who helped draft the Alabama law and is helping coordinate the state�s legal strategy, said the law prohibits consideration of race.

He dismissed reports of discrimination in Alabama as �ridiculous.�

On Nov. 1, Perez wrote to 39 Alabama school districts with significant Hispanic populations, seeking detailed data on student enrollment and absences and giving a Nov. 14 deadline. But Strange replied that Perez had not stated his legal authority to demand the information.

Perez cited a raft of civil rights and other federal laws; Strange replied that Justice had still asserted �no legal authority�� to obtain the data.

Alabama�s interim education superintendent, Larry E. Craven, advised noncompliance in a Nov. 2 letter to school districts. This week, in a letter to Perez, he offered to help districts respond but denied any discrimination in schools.

Perez said the government will take �appropriate action� if it finds violations of civil rights laws.

Several Alabama school districts, citing the state education department�s initial recommendation, said they would not comply with Perez�s request.

�Why should we do it if we�ve been told not to?� said Nancy Pierce, spokeswoman for Mobile County schools, who said pulling the data would be �extremely labor-intensive.�


I had to attend a training seminar on Alabama's new immigration bill. Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police all simultaneously saying "WTF is this useless, cumbersome, and burdensome pile of schit legislation"?


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"Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police....."

And WHO, exactly do they WORK for ?

Oh,.....I forgot, they "Run" things, eh ?

"Legislation" is not the "will of the People" in this case ?

GTC


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
"Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police....."

And WHO, exactly do they WORK for ?

Oh,.....I forgot, they "Run" things, eh ?

"Legislation" is not the "will of the People" in this case ?

GTC


The law is a pile of schit no matter who you work for.


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That's a very concise, and defining response.

AGAIN,

"Legislation" is not the "will of the People" in this case ?

GTC


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Originally Posted by .280Rem

I had to attend a training seminar on Alabama's new immigration bill. Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police all simultaneously saying "WTF is this useless, cumbersome, and burdensome pile of schit legislation"?


What would you do different to accomplish the goal?


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
That's a very concise, and defining response.

AGAIN,

"Legislation" is not the "will of the People" in this case ?

GTC


It doesn't accomplish it, no.


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Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by .280Rem

I had to attend a training seminar on Alabama's new immigration bill. Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police all simultaneously saying "WTF is this useless, cumbersome, and burdensome pile of schit legislation"?


What would you do different to accomplish the goal?


That would take hours to answer, and I'm not sure it would work. I just know this new AL law is crap, and that is the consensus of everybody that is burdened with enforcing it. And, oh by the way, it's unenforceable.


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Quote
government will take �appropriate action�


sheesh. Didn't even get past the first 2 sentences and I'm hot under the collar.
Miserable douche bags.
The appropriate action is to enforce the law you knot heads. Even a Dead Cat can be taught that.

So, what is this "appropriate action" you beak off about? Whatcha gonna do? Mail a piece of paper? OOOOweee! We're so scared... Then whatca gonna do? Threaten to withhold some money? Guess what, we'll return the favor. How would you like ZERO dollar and ZERO cents from our state to the IRS next year? How ya gonna slice them apples?

Quote
The standoff has been over Justice�s request for detailed enrollment data from Alabama schools, part of the probe into complaints that the law has prompted Hispanic families to pull their children from school.
You LIE!!!
Hispanics in our state are all well and good and they know it. I think the term you're searching for is ILLEGAL ALIENS! And we don't give a damn if they're from Mexico or China or the Moon. They gonna pull up tent stakes and SCOOT! Every stinking one of them!
Oh, by the way. Your use of the term "standoff" smacks of threat of initiated violence. You sure you wanna go there?

Quote
The disagreement, which could lead to a second Justice Department lawsuit... bla bla bla
There is no "disagreement" you mental defects. It's plain and simple rejection of your lies and attempted strong arm tactics.
A "second lawsuit" you say?
Don't you mean "mail another piece of paper"?

Why don't you illiterate rejects and your lawless federal court judges and all your butt buddies at the SPLC and ACLU take your race card and all your other meaningless pieces of paper and pack 'em in your poopers. If you'd like us to take notice, post it on youtube and email a link.

Look, here's the scoop you ignoramus twits. If you won't do your job, fulfill your oaths of office, and enforce the law, we're going to. You're already guilty of breach of oath, dereliction of duty, misappropriation of public funds, gross insubordination, and mail fraud. If we look around I'm sure we can find more. Show up in our jurisdiction in any manner other than with hat in hand and any other speech than requesting orders on where to begin performing your sworn duty and you will be arrested, cuffed and stuffed, charged, printed and jailed to await your arraignment.
Oh, and if you're packing heat without state granted permit to carry, you'll be charged with crimes surrounding that illegal act as well.
Good day.

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.

Last edited by Archerhunter; 11/19/11.

BAN THE RAINBOW FLAG!
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Originally Posted by .280Rem
Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by .280Rem

I had to attend a training seminar on Alabama's new immigration bill. Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police all simultaneously saying "WTF is this useless, cumbersome, and burdensome pile of schit legislation"?


What would you do different to accomplish the goal?


That would take hours to answer, and I'm not sure it would work. I just know this new AL law is crap, and that is the consensus of everybody that is burdened with enforcing it. And, oh by the way, it's unenforceable.


Correct me if I'm wrong,...the "Everybody" you're discussing here,....They get PAID, to do what they are TOLD (ordered) to do,
do they not ?

So WHO pays them,.....?

Or are we discussing folks that voluntarily "Burden" themselves? Somehow I think not.

Hell, I "just know" that.

GTC

Last edited by crossfireoops; 11/19/11.

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We need to turn this country around to a point where the DOJ sews Washington for hiding and encouraging illegals. sick


The first time I shot myself in the head...

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I'll just quote Russel Pearce,......

�America first with secure borders [and] safer neighborhoods, and protect American jobs [and] save billions of dollars educating, medicating and incarcerating illegal aliens. Extremism is not extreme at all when it is defending this constitutional republic.�

Pearce quoted the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association as saying, �Since S.B. 1070, Phoenix has experienced a 30-year low crime rate. When hard-working rank-and-file Phoenix police officers were given access to the tool of S.B. 1070, the deterrence factor this legislation brought about was clearly instrumental in our unprecedented drop in crime.�

There ain't a goddam word there that's not TRUE.



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DOJ do their job?
HA!
That's a laugh.

Next you'll want the ATF to actually support law abiding gun owners and bust criminals rather than harass people for no reason and BE the criminals.

Absolutely preposterous!
What country are you from, anyway?









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Originally Posted by Archerhunter


Absolutely preposterous!
What country are you from, anyway?









The Deluded States Of America.


The first time I shot myself in the head...

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If delusion ever meets treachery, we will have reached a crossroads.

oh, wait...


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Originally Posted by .280Rem
Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by .280Rem

I had to attend a training seminar on Alabama's new immigration bill. Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police all simultaneously saying "WTF is this useless, cumbersome, and burdensome pile of schit legislation"?


What would you do different to accomplish the goal?


That would take hours to answer, and I'm not sure it would work. I just know this new AL law is crap, and that is the consensus of everybody that is burdened with enforcing it. And, oh by the way, it's unenforceable.


Correct me if I'm wrong,...the "Everybody" you're discussing here,....They get PAID, to do what they are TOLD (ordered) to do,
do they not ?

So WHO pays them,.....?

Or are we discussing folks that voluntarily "Burden" themselves? Somehow I think not.

Hell, I "just know" that.

GTC


What is your point/question?


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Look, If the "Legislation" is voted in legitimately, that is it REFLECTS the "Will of the People" of Alabama,....

"........Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's,....." should STFU, and do the job they are paid to do.

THAT is my point.

GTC


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Originally Posted by .280Rem
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Steadily, and tenaciously, we carve our way into the issue of State's Rights.

"Perez said the government will take �appropriate action� if it finds violations of civil rights laws.

Several Alabama school districts, citing the state education department�s initial recommendation, said they would not comply with Perez�s request."


This is the real deal, folks.

GTC

Quote
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...IQAhEkeUN_story.html?tid=pm_politics_pop

Justice Dept. dispute with Alabama over illegal-immigration law intensifies

By Jerry Markon, Published: November 17

The Obama administration�s legal campaign against restrictive state immigration laws has led to a bitter standoff in Alabama, where Justice Department attorneys are investigating possible civil rights violations.

The federal government already has sued Alabama over its new law, one of three such lawsuits against states that have cracked down on illegal immigration. Now, the Justice Department has opened a civil rights investigation to monitor potential discrimination as parts of the Alabama law take effect.


The standoff has been over Justice�s request for detailed enrollment data from Alabama schools, part of the probe into complaints that the law has prompted Hispanic families to pull their children from school. But Alabama�s attorney general balked and, in a series of blunt replies, questioned the federal government�s authority to demand the information. The state education department had advised school districts not to comply, but this week expressed a willingness to cooperate.

The disagreement , which could lead to a second Justice Department lawsuit, comes after the administration last year sued Arizona and, two weeks ago, filed suit against South Carolina. Government lawyers are also considering challenges to laws in Utah, Georgia and Indiana.

The lawsuits have emerged as a key part of the administration�s efforts on immigration and could serve as a counterpoint to growing criticism in the Hispanic activist community over President Obama�s stepped-up deportation program.

The Alabama law is considered the toughest of six new state immigration statutes, which include provisions giving police new authority to question legal status, among other things.

The dispute has stirred memories of Alabama�s segregationist past, with accusations that the law targets Hispanics. A civil rights group compared Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange to then-Gov. George C. Wallace (D) in 1963 as he resisted federal efforts to enroll black students at the University of Alabama.

�The intemperate language of [Strange�s] letter does remind us of George Wallace in the schoolhouse door,� said Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which set up a hotline to monitor discrimination complaints over the immigration law. He said the hotline has received nearly 4,000 calls.

Strange, a Republican elected last year, vehemently rejected the Wallace comparison and said he would not tolerate discrimination. Supporters of the law defended the attorney general and said concerns about racial profiling of Hispanics are overstated.

�That�s a poisonous thing to say,� said Strange, who defeated Wallace�s son, George Wallace Jr., in a 2006 primary for lieutenant governor.

Legal experts say the level of federal intervention over the immigration laws is extraordinary, particularly since the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups have obtained rulings temporarily blocking all or key parts of the Utah, Georgia and Indiana measures. Federal courts also have blocked the most contested provisions of Arizona�s law.

The Alabama law passed in June after last year�s Republican sweep of the legislature. A federal appeals court last month temporarily blocked the most contested provision, which requires public schools to determine citizenship by seeking children�s birth certificates.

But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit allowed other parts to take effect, pending a more detailed review of the Justice Department�s appeal. Those include provisions requiring police to check immigration status if they stop someone while enforcing other laws and barring undocumented immigrants from entering into business transactions with the state or being party to a contract.

Civil rights groups say this has led to illegal immigrants being evicted from their homes, not getting paid for work and being unable to purchase some utilities. One victim of domestic violence complained that she wasn�t allowed to seek a protective order from a judge, who threatened to turn her in to authorities, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

�The law has had a chilling effect,� said Isabel Rubio, executive director of the Hispanic Interest Coalition of Alabama, who said some Hispanic families have left the state and others are signing custody of their children over to neighbors in case they are deported.

Thomas E. Perez, the Justice Department�s assistant attorney general for civil rights, said federal lawyers are investigating similar complaints, along with reports of racial profiling during traffic stops, Hispanic children being withdrawn from school and bullying of children who show up.

�There�s a real fear in these households,� he said in an interview.

Strange said his office had not heard of such complaints. And Kris Kobach, a senior Justice Department official in the George W. Bush administration who helped draft the Alabama law and is helping coordinate the state�s legal strategy, said the law prohibits consideration of race.

He dismissed reports of discrimination in Alabama as �ridiculous.�

On Nov. 1, Perez wrote to 39 Alabama school districts with significant Hispanic populations, seeking detailed data on student enrollment and absences and giving a Nov. 14 deadline. But Strange replied that Perez had not stated his legal authority to demand the information.

Perez cited a raft of civil rights and other federal laws; Strange replied that Justice had still asserted �no legal authority�� to obtain the data.

Alabama�s interim education superintendent, Larry E. Craven, advised noncompliance in a Nov. 2 letter to school districts. This week, in a letter to Perez, he offered to help districts respond but denied any discrimination in schools.

Perez said the government will take �appropriate action� if it finds violations of civil rights laws.

Several Alabama school districts, citing the state education department�s initial recommendation, said they would not comply with Perez�s request.

�Why should we do it if we�ve been told not to?� said Nancy Pierce, spokeswoman for Mobile County schools, who said pulling the data would be �extremely labor-intensive.�


I had to attend a training seminar on Alabama's new immigration bill. Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's, and police all simultaneously saying "WTF is this useless, cumbersome, and burdensome pile of schit legislation"?


I've read of some Chiefs/Sheriff's in some smaller Sand Mtn. cities/counties in North AL. don't like the fact that the state has burdened them, with a law that effects their agencies manpower and resources. This without the state giving any additional funding. This on an already tight budget in some of these cities and counties.

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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Look, If the "Legislation" is voted in legitimately, that is it REFLECTS the "Will of the People" of Alabama,....

"........Room full of Judges, Dist. Attorney's,....." should STFU, and do the job they are paid to do.

THAT is my point.

GTC


The fact that legislation passed, doesn't make it good legislation!

The fact that it's totally unenforceable, makes it bad legislation, among other huge flaws.

It's not a matter of not wanting to do it. It's a matter of the legislature not writing a law we can use.

I hope all that is crystal clear.


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The law can and should be enforced, to full extent of law. The LEO are copping out of their responsibilities on this one. There should be no illegal walking in our nation. When found they should be disposed of like yesterday's trash.

Last edited by AKbushrat; 11/19/11.

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Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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