I'm in the process of acquiring a .300 Savage...a cartridge I have no experience with. Anyone have any pet loads for a Savage 99 in that estimable caliber?
I cast my own bullets for both rifle and pistol so if you've got some suggestions along those lines, I appreciate them as well. Looks to me like the short neck on the .300 would make cast bullets problematical.
Too, I've several .30-30's by two other manufacturers and have found that Remington's 170 gr Core-lok works well, in them as well as .308, .30-40 Krag and .30-06. How 'bout the .300 Savage?
I've got 50 years of hand loading experience behind me...so let me have it.
Best Regards, Rodfac
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One of our members, 260Remguy, praises the performance of 170gr RN bullets in the 300 Savage. Never tried them myself, but would think they would work just fine.
I like Partitions, and 150gr Partitions would be my first choice if my 99 liked them. It doesn't, but it does love the 180gr Partitions and H4895. Not a fast bullet, but to say that it works is an understatement.
Just think of the 300 Savage as a mid level loading of the 308 Win, and choose your bullets from there.
And share what you find, please. Always looking for more things to play with.
And congrats on getting a Savage!!! Just be aware that one is never enough...
It's hard to beat a regular cup and core 165 grain bullet with 42.0 grains of RL15 if it groups in your rifle. That's been a good load for me in 6 different rifles.
"A free people (claim) their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate." --Thomas Jefferson, Rights of British America, 1774
The only 170 gr. 30-30 bullet I used was the Hornady, and none of the three 300 Savage rifles I load for shot well with it.
I've stayed mainly with 150 gr. bullets, flat based spitzers from Sierra, Hornady, and Remington. 38.5 gr. of IMR4895 shot well with all bullets from all rifles. 40.0 gr. of the same and IMR4064 shot well in some of the rifles. I don't recall the charge weight, but IMR4320 worked very well in one rifle.
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170 grain, .308 bullets are ususally intended for the .30-30 Win and are usually sized to .307 diameter. When run through dies with a .308 expander plug, the bullet doesn't really sit tightly enough in the case and just might get shoved into the powder charge. First mike the bullets and don't run .307 diameter bullets in a .308 bore (300 Savage, .308, .30-06 etc.)
All you need to know is VARGET and 150 grain Win Power Points, CCI BR2 primers and Win. brand Cases. Up around 42 to 43 grains does the job for me. Work up using all the usual precautions and a reputable chronograph. You'll get 2600 to 2650 fps and fine accuracy.
My experience with two 300 sav chambered rifles has been that best accuracy occured between 2400 and 2500 fps with 150 gr bullets. I'm loading for eastern woods hunting where shots beyong 100 yards are rare, more like 40 to 70 yards. Velocity wasn't a big item. If you need more range you should search a poster here named Steelhead. He likes the Barnes 130 gr TTSX I think it's called. Speaks highly of it.
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed-unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison
150 cup and core, and 42 gr Reloader 15 shot terrific in two different 99EG's. You can go a little hotter (Alliant says 44 max with 165's) but this load worked very well, and ran about 2620 fps froma 24" barrel.
I am also anxious to try some Varget, too, as I have a lot of it.
I use 30 grain of Re15 behind a Lyman 311291 cast bullet. No problem loading them, just expand the necks a little. I get 2-3inch groups with scoped rifles, 3-4 with tang sights at 100 yards. Good Luck.
Mike
NRA Patron Member
If its "Made in America", its not setting on a container ship!
My hunting load for my deer rifle, a pristine 1953 Model 99 (EG) in .300 Savage caliber has a velocity deviation of only �3 fps (+1 fps/-2 fps), a chronographed muzzle velocity of 2635 fps using a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet in front of 40.8 grains of H4895 (.1 grain less than the listed MAXIMUM LOAD) sparked by a standard Winchester Large Rifle Primer.
This load is both accurate and effective. Sighted in at exactly 25 yards, this load gives the rifleman a point-blank-range of 250 yards wherein the bullet never rises or falls more than 3 inches above or below the line-of-sight from the muzzle to 250 yards. This makes range estimation a moot point.
All you need do to make a killing shot is aim for the center of the target's "boiler-room" and the bullet will strike within 3 inches of that aiming point out to 250 yards.
H4895 is one of Hodgdon's "EXTREME" powders which means this powder is not effected by temperature change which means the rifle's zero with your hunting load maintains the SAME MUZZLE VELOCITY and thus the same point-of-impact regardless of the air temperature... a handy advantage if you work your load up in the heat of August and take a shot at a huge, trophy buck in much colder weather.
For black bear, elk or moose, simply substitute a 150 grain Nosler Partition Bullet for the 150 grain Ballistic Tip Bullet and you're "good-to-go".
Strength & Honor...
Ron T.
It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...
Great info guys...gun should be in my hands in a week...I'll report back...Many thanks...Rod
Last edited by Rodfac; 11/25/11.
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Hi Rod, I've been shooting 42-44 gr Reloder 15 with the 165 SST hornady, some decent groups, around 1.5 inches or so. About 1.1-inch groups with 44 gr RL 15 and the Hornady 160 FTX Leverevolution bullet. I have some Hornady 165 flatbases coming that will likely shoot well too. Rifle is a 1949 EG.
I'm sure everybody has there pet loads and powders. Mine happens to be 37 grains of IMR3031 with 150 grain Sierras. Had 4 300 savages that all loved this load. Jerry
"Its easier to fool people......Than convince them that they have been fooled." Mark Twain
Still waiting on the gun...but the brass from powder valley came in...Winchester head stamp...Dies and a trimmer (RCBS and Lee) came in yesterday...Got 'em all trimmed up and primed, just need the rifle. I've got Sierra 150 gr Spitzers on hand that I use in my .308 Sako Forester, as well as a limited supply of Hornady's in the same weight. I'll give a my 170 gr RN Core-locs a chance as well. They're just over a MOA in an Infantry Krag ,.30-40 that serves me well. With that short neck, I'm betting a round nose will do well...and out to 200 yds the trajectory is about the same.
For powder, I've got RE-15, 748, IMI 4895, 4064, 3031, and 4320...So I should be able to try some of your prescriptions...
Does any one know the standard twist rate for Savage .300's. The one I'm waiting on is an EG, serial number is 6225xx...what vintage would that be? It's drilled and tapped topside,so the collector interest isn't much, but looks clean in the pics. I've got a Leupold Alaskan 2.5x waiting for it (with rings)...one of the short run with 7/8" tubes...really like the scopes, light, good optics, and look right on levers or small bolt guns, but they're getting pretty pricey...and the rings are almost as bad.
Thanks for the load recommendations all of you, glad to be a member here. This'll be my first Savage, one that I've often considered but never got around to buying. Too, it's a caliber I've not worked with before. Hope to have some shooting done in the next week.
The best to all, Rodfac
Last edited by Rodfac; 12/01/11.
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My 99F likes Sierra 150g SP #2130, CCI 200 primer, 41g IMR 4895, Rem cases (full length re-sized). Bullet seated just off the lands. Chrono says 2440fps and consistently shoots 1" groups.
My hunting combination this year. No luck yet as work and playing "bird dog" for the sons has limited my opportunities. I like the bullet for deer, has been a good performer in my .308 and 30.06.
My 99F likes Sierra 150g SP #2130, CCI 200 primer, 41g IMR 4895, Rem cases (full length re-sized). Bullet seated just off the lands. Chrono says 2440fps and consistently shoots 1" groups.
My hunting combination this year. No luck yet as work and playing "bird dog" for the sons has limited my opportunities. I like the bullet for deer, has been a good performer in my .308 and 30.06.
How can you tell the bullet is seated "just off the lands" I use the the 2.6 COL, am I doing something wrong?
FWIW: I've had good luck with IMR 4064 in my 1946 EG 300. 40.3 grains under a Hornady 165 grain BTSP gives me right at 2550 and 1.5" at the worst...7/8" the best. I full length size and use CCI 200 primers.
Well heck, I might as well stick my nose in too. My "go to" load is 40gr. 4064 + 150 Sierra spitzer. Performs well in a bunch of different rifles I have fed- 99s, 40/45s, and a 1920.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Pay heed to Ron T's signature. No offense Ron! I was brand new to handloading for the '99 a couple years back and he graciously gave me some guidance. Ron is one of the foremost authorities in my opinion with these rifles chambered in .300 Savage.
Some time ago I asked him about loads for my '99, the exact same rifle. I decided to go with IMR4895 because that's what I had on hand. I worked my loads up and finally settled, o.k. my '99 settled, on 41 grains under a 150 grain Sierra Spitzer, that's .5 grain under the max listed in Lyman's 45th edition. You might have guessed..... that's what projectiles I had on hand too. I ran out of the Sierras, funny how that works, and found the Hornady 150 grain SP Interlock's equally as accurate. Remington 9 1/2 primers touching them off, and I run about .010 off the lands.
Appears as though some sort of 4895 performs well in these rifles, many other calibers as well, and my next trial will be with Accurate Arm's version of this powder. Maybe it will meter a tad better. I do trickle to my desired charge however.
Good luck, have fun and BE SAFE!
"Be A Good Listener. Your Ears Will Never Get You In Trouble"
My 99F likes Sierra 150g SP #2130, CCI 200 primer, 41g IMR 4895, Rem cases (full length re-sized). Bullet seated just off the lands. Chrono says 2440fps and consistently shoots 1" groups.
My hunting combination this year. No luck yet as work and playing "bird dog" for the sons has limited my opportunities. I like the bullet for deer, has been a good performer in my .308 and 30.06.
How can you tell the bullet is seated "just off the lands" I use the the 2.6 COL, am I doing something wrong?
For many loads I use the "Stoney Point OAL Gauge"(a Hornady product now). However for the 300Sav I don't yet have a case threaded for the tool. To determine the COAL I likely used either a split case or the dowel rod method. Not as exact but gets it close.
Someday I will get the proper drill and tap to make my own cases for the tool.
BTW, my loads measure 2.703. They fit the magazine and feed fine.
Again....thanks guys, first rate responses...The rifle has been shipped, my brass is prepped, primered and I'm ready to go...I'll report back later...Rod BTW..here's this years venison albeit with a brand-x lever gun in .35 Remington ...Rod
[img:left][/img]
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Just loaded up my first batch for the good ole 300. 3 different loads to test at the range. Wanted to see how a 125 grain bullet would perform out of her.
Mine is a 1971 and a four speed manual clutch. I understand they only made the four speeds for two years and I am very fortunate to have this little bike. It belonged to my Uncle when he past away and took a lot of work to get it running and safe. This is the exact bike my cousin and I used to pile on and off through the cow pastures we would go. Boy did we get full of crap! We had a blast as kids and when I ride it now....I still do! I stay out of the cow pies now.
"Be A Good Listener. Your Ears Will Never Get You In Trouble"
Pay heed to Ron T's signature. No offense Ron! I was brand new to handloading for the '99 a couple years back and he graciously gave me some guidance. Ron is one of the foremost authorities in my opinion with these rifles chambered in .300 Savage.
Some time ago I asked him about loads for my '99, the exact same rifle. I decided to go with IMR4895 because that's what I had on hand. I worked my loads up and finally settled, o.k. my '99 settled, on 41 grains under a 150 grain Sierra Spitzer, that's .5 grain under the max listed in Lyman's 45th edition. You might have guessed..... that's what projectiles I had on hand too. I ran out of the Sierras, funny how that works, and found the Hornady 150 grain SP Interlock's equally as accurate. Remington 9 1/2 primers touching them off, and I run about .010 off the lands.
Appears as though some sort of 4895 performs well in these rifles, many other calibers as well, and my next trial will be with Accurate Arm's version of this powder. Maybe it will meter a tad better. I do trickle to my desired charge however.
Good luck, have fun and BE SAFE!
THANK YOU, Doug, for the nice compliment... and I'm truly glad I was able to help you out. The ONLY thing I ask of those I help is to do the same for someone else... i.e., SHARE your knowledge.
Strength & Honor...
Ron T.
It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...
Well,I picked up the rifle in time to take it to NC with my wife for some time on the range at our cabin. Wish I'd of bought a 99 sooner...this thing's a bolt gun in disguise...and a well kept secret as well!
Here's some of the results...and many thanks to those of you regulars that contributed loads and advice.
With Sierra's 150 gr Spitzer...loads from 38 to 40 gr's of IMR 4064 produced gps from 7/8" to 1-1/4" at 100 yds off the bench...three shot gps all....tho on the few that I tried 5, I found little difference. With the same bullet and 3031, 37 grains gave me 1-1/2" vertical...could have been some holding error with my improvised "bench rest". With Winchester's 748 and 43.5 gr, I got right at 1-1/4" and a chrono'd 2590 fps from my 24" EG. I was having problems with the PACT chrono...?cold and low batteries? that day, so my results were single shot entries for the most part...not the best way for sure! I'll firm up the velocities over the Christmas holidays.
With Hornady's 150 gr Spire Pt, and 42 gr of Re-15, I got a 3/4" gp for 3 shots, my best for the day...and a chrono'd two shot avg of 2626 fps. Re-15 obviously needs some add'l exploration with this bullet...it's a nice combination.
With Speer's 125 gr TNT varmint bullet and 40.5 gr of 4064, I got three consistent 1" gps at 100 yds...a superb combination...I'm estimating the velocity at 2650 fps based on the book values but will chrono it later...for chucks out to 200 yds or so, this is the combination. As a side note, this bullet works well in the M1 Garand and M1A as well, giving a nice medium speed rapid fire and offhand bullet for those shooting in the CMP competitions.
Along those same lines...I tried the military M2, 152 gr flat based spitzer used for years in the govt's ball .30-06 load, (the all copper/cupro one not the steel jacketed). The 40.5 gr 4064 combination worked well here too...1-1/4" gps at 100 yds for three shots...two separate gps. in succession...gotta try this one again, as I've got two thousand of them bought for practice when they were a nickle a piece!
The only non-starter was Remington's 170 gr Round Nose designed for the .30-30...but which works to perfection in the .308, .30-06 and .30-40 Krag (and measures .308-.3085" from my mic). This one produced 2" gps. at 100 yds...but was tried late in the session and my 65 yo eyes may have been getting tired. I'll try it again as this is a really good deer bullet when pushed up to 2400+ fps from any of the above...and is cheap too....
Again...thanks for all the loads and advice...I'm a shooter first and foremost, and realize this is primarily a collector's forum...but results like these are, in my experience, worth sharing...The very best to you all in this Holy Season..Merry Christmas...Rod
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43 if full up with 150 grain bullet but not compressed. I am using WW brass. I do let the Varget spiral in to the case through the funnel as opposed to just dumping it. It is a full power load that you should use care in working up to.
99guy Now that my friend is a GROUP!!...And I did note the lack of a scope...if you consider yourself not much of a shot...you need some serious self evaluation. Very nice!!!!
I'm an open sight (OK receiver and tang peeps too) lever guy, for the most part...the guns were built for that type of shooting, look aesthetically better when so sighted, carry and handle better as well... and 40+ years, off and on, of Hi-Power shooting has taught me that three to four inches at 200 yds, rapid fire for ten shots, can be done, and you don't need to be on the USMC Camp Perry team to do it...Gotta see that front sight post, however.
For load work up, I like the scope, and do shoot hunched over the back porch rail, for the most part, simulating a deer stand type of position. Too, I sit a lot...against trees, fence posts etc while hunting, and I shoot for practice from that position as well. I do ok from offhand, too...
So here's today's results. Chrono'd data coming for those of you bored to tears...all from my 24" bbl'd 300 EG, all were four shot test averages, over a PACT Chrono. None were shot for groups...that's tomorrow's project, rain permitting.
Sierra 150gr Flate Base Spit...38.0 3031 = 2572 fps Ext Spd 15 Factory, R-P 150gr PSP...2618 fps, Ext Spd 29 Sierra 150gr Flat Base Spit...39.0 3031, 2717 fps, Ext Spd 16 (Primers flattening and a bit of crater here...I'd call it max in this rifle) Note: 39.0 gr of 3031 is 1/2 grain above max from some manuals...Rod Sierra 150gr Flat Base Spit...38.5 3031, 2672 fps, Ext Spd 8 Hornady 150gr Spire...38.5 3031, 2617 fps, Ext Spd 5
Also shot Speer's 125 gr HP TNT, with 40.7gr of 4064, but got only 2490 fps and with an Ext Spd of 48...go figgur...it shot into a half inch gp at 50 yds for me the other day...not enuf distance to allow the spread and velocity fluctuations to take affect I'd guess.
Moderators..If this is getting beyond the scope of the "Savage Collectors" forum approved topics...I can cease and desist...(but this Savage has me worked up!)
The Best to all of you. Rod
Last edited by Rodfac; 12/16/11.
Thank a vet for your freedoms to worship, assemble, speech and vote. Preachers, politicians, journalists, and other elected officials had nothing to do with it.
99guy Now that my friend is a GROUP!!...And I did note the lack of a scope...if you consider yourself not much of a shot...you need some serious self evaluation. Very nice!!!!
I'm an open sight (OK receiver and tang peeps too) lever guy, for the most part...the guns were built for that type of shooting, look aesthetically better when so sighted, carry and handle better as well... and 40+ years, off and on, of Hi-Power shooting has taught me that three to four inches at 200 yds, rapid fire for ten shots, can be done, and you don't need to be on the USMC Camp Perry team to do it...Gotta see that front sight post, however.
For load work up, I like the scope, and do shoot hunched over the back porch rail, for the most part, simulating a deer stand type of position. Too, I sit a lot...against trees, fence posts etc while hunting, and I shoot for practice from that position as well. I do ok from offhand, too...
So here's today's results. Chrono'd data coming for those of you bored to tears...all from my 24" bbl'd 300 EG, all were four shot test averages, over a PACT Chrono. None were shot for groups...that's tomorrow's project, rain permitting.
Sierra 150gr Flate Base Spit...38.0 3031 = 2572 fps Ext Spd 15 Factory, R-P 150gr PSP...2618 fps, Ext Spd 29 Sierra 150gr Flat Base Spit...39.0 3031, 2717 fps, Ext Spd 16 (Primers flattening and a bit of crater here...I'd call it max in this rifle) Sierra 150gr Flat Base Spit...38.5 3031, 2672 fps, Ext Spd 8 Hornady 150gr Spire...38.5 3031, 2617 fps, Ext Spd 5
Also shot Speer's 125 gr HP TNT, with 40.7gr of 4064, but got only 2490 fps and with an Ext Spd of 48...go figgur...it shot into a half inch gp at 50 yds for me the other day...not enuf distance to allow the spread and velocity fluctuations to take affect I'd guess.
Moderators..If this is getting beyond the scope of the "Savage Collectors" forum approved topics...I can cease and desist...(but this Savage has me worked up!)
The Best to all of you. Rod
Think it's great stuff and all within the scope of a collectors forum if you ask me. I realize I'm a Newb but on any firearm forum reloading info is very important. I have 2200 posts on another forum and many of t hose posts concern reloading. Many of the rifles we shoot either don't have current factory offerings or the factory loads are not safe. Keep it coming..I know very little when it comes to reloading .300 sav and am soaking it up. Now if you have Garand load questions..:)
Last edited by GarandGrabber; 12/16/11.
"Only Accurate Rifles are Interesting" Col. Townsend Whelen
Cal...Your point is well taken sir, and thanks for the feedback...as to the 39.0 grain load of 3031, with 150 gr bullets...I found it in the NRA "Handloading" manual by Wm C. Davis, 2nd printing, April of '86. That manual shows a Hornady, Ptd SP, loaded in Win Cases, with Win 8-1/2 120 primers, and 39.5 gr of 3031 for 2664 fps. It was an NRA developed load, tested apparently for a CUP pressure of 45,370. NRA used a 24" bbl, but the Cartridge Length Overall is listed as 2.675", way too long for my magazine.
My use of 39.0 of 3031 was under that by 1/2 grain, but did give me the first hints of pressure...a flatter, slightly cratered appearing primer on all rounds. For that reason, I'd prefer to stay at 38.5 gr or less in my rifle. I just cross-checked an older Hornady manual as well, (early 80's vintage), which gives a max load of 40.2 gr of 3031 for use with their 150 gr Spire Pt.
Also, Re-checking Ken Water's "Pet Loads" manual in his column from Nov.'76, he did find that 38.5 of 3031 was Max for his rifle using 150 gr Sierra Spitzers loaded to an OAL of 2.600". I've used his suggestions for 20+ years and have always found him right on the mark...
Sierra's hard cover manual from the 80's shows 38.5 grains as max with their 150 gr Spitzer as well....
It occurs to me, that current lots of 3031 may run a little hotter than the older stuff from which some of these loads were assembled and published. And it's always wise to take a 50-100 fps loss and keep pressures where they belong. In the long run it makes little difference in the trajectory at practical hunting distances.
In light of the above, I've edited my post regarding that load.
Best Regards, Rodfac
Last edited by Rodfac; 12/16/11.
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Hodgdon puts many of their loads onto the internet, so you can check them. I checked their site and the Lee manual for IMR3031 and 150gr bullets initially and both show 38.5 as max. But now that I look farther I see that the newer Lyman manual shows 39, and Hornady shows a whopping 40.2 as max. Nosler on the other hand shows a max of 38.
I'll check as well...I probably need to upgrade some of my manuals, most are 20-30+ years old; I use 'em but do work up loads gradually...but then again...at 65 yo, I'm not buying any green bananas either...Good points you brought up Cal... Best regards, Rod
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Be careful using the Sierra 5th ed. 300 Savage data. Between the 3rd ed. and the 5th the test rifle changed from a 99 to a bolt gun, and the charge weights and velocities went up. Many of them don't jive well with other data.
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Different bullet lengths make all the difference in safe upper limits. Loading all bullets of one weight to 2.60" overall with the same powder charge means you can go from compressed charges to 90% loads. Can make a huge difference in chamber pressure. That is one reason why you start low and work up. Another reason is of course to find the optimal barrel time / optimal charge weight that gives tightest group. And different bullet shapes (longer or shorter ogives, boattails, round nose, gilding metal/copper, etc) mean more or less metal to metal contact with the barrel, which also means more or less max. chamber pressure with the same powder charge. Just some examples of how much bullet length can vary:
this works out as follows in Quickload's computer model, using some of the various Hornady 150s and equal load length and powder weight: 2.6 COAL, H4895, 43.29 grains"
Going cross-brand, using same powder and charge weight and OAL the program predicts: Hornady BTSP = 100% fill, 55,700 psi (overcharge) Speer BTSP = 101.9% fill, 58,000 psi (even worse) Sierra BTSP = 100.8% fill, 56,600 psi Barnes TTSX = 111.1% fill, 71,874 psi (Yikes!) Nosler Accubond = 108.2% fill, 66,300 psi (overcharge) Nosler Partition = 103.1% fill, 59,437 psi (overcharge)
Pretty scary stuff, taking some one else's recipe and "subbing" different parameters. Heck I tested Winchester primers vs. CCIs in a 30-25 WSSM recently and it made about 35 fps difference, meaning several hundred psi on the chamber, and made totally different groups with same bullet and charge.
Different bullet lengths make all the difference in safe upper limits. Loading all bullets of one weight to 2.60" overall with the same powder charge means you can go from compressed charges to 90% loads. Can make a huge difference in chamber pressure. That is one reason why you start low and work up. Another reason is of course to find the optimal barrel time / optimal charge weight that gives tightest group. And different bullet shapes (longer or shorter ogives, boattails, round nose, gilding metal/copper, etc) mean more or less metal to metal contact with the barrel, which also means more or less max. chamber pressure with the same powder charge. Just some examples of how much bullet length can vary:
this works out as follows in Quickload's computer model, using some of the various Hornady 150s and equal load length and powder weight: 2.6 COAL, H4895, 43.29 grains"
Going cross-brand, using same powder and charge weight and OAL the program predicts: Hornady BTSP = 100% fill, 55,700 psi (overcharge) Speer BTSP = 101.9% fill, 58,000 psi (even worse) Sierra BTSP = 100.8% fill, 56,600 psi Barnes TTSX = 111.1% fill, 71,874 psi (Yikes!) Nosler Accubond = 108.2% fill, 66,300 psi (overcharge) Nosler Partition = 103.1% fill, 59,437 psi (overcharge)
Pretty scary stuff, taking some one else's recipe and "subbing" different parameters. Heck I tested Winchester primers vs. CCIs in a 30-25 WSSM recently and it made about 35 fps difference, meaning several hundred psi on the chamber, and made totally different groups with same bullet and charge.
I am loading 41gr 4064 with Hornady 150gr interlock bullet, 2.68 col, what does your Quick Load software say about pressure.? Thanks Gary
Was able to do some shooting here in KY this am...bright, sunny, calm winds and 38 degrees...As reported earlier, I've had good luck with 3031, this load, 38.0 gr is right at max from some manuals, but well under in others...case expansion and primer indications are good with this particular rifle...as always, you're results may differ. I used R-P brass, Win Lg Rifle caps and seated the Sierra 150 gr Flat Base Spitzer to 2.600" Length Overall, as recommended in the '04 version of Sierra's Infinity computer based loading manual. It chrono's at 2572 fps, average, with a 5 shot extreme spread of 15 fps.
I shot off my porch rail, the distance was 100 yds, the group measures 5/8" Love this rifle! Here's a pic...Best Regards, Rod
[img:left][/img] [img:left]
Last edited by Rodfac; 12/18/11.
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Rod, looks like you have a fine shooting, deer killing rifle. Excellent group for that style of shooting. I think you found the perfect recipe for that rifle. Tom
Thanks for the compliment, guys, but it's really the rifle...this is one fantastic piece...I also played a bit with a Speer 125 gr. TNT Hp...the load used Bartlett's pull down 4895 powder (in my chrono tests, it's identical in burning speed to 4064, which is the data Jeff recommends when loading), 40.7 gr gave me 2490 fps and this 7/8" group. I used R-P brass, Win Lg Rifle caps and the Length overall was 2.575". This load, using 4064 data from the '04 Sierra Infinity computer manual, is well under max...primer and case measurements back that up as well.
...Just to clarify the position in the previous pic...I do lean my left forearm against the rail, but do not support my right arm or elbow...this gives me an identical zero when compared to my offhand and sitting, back rested, positions. That pic seems to have my left forearm off the rail...so much for posing...Best regards to all, Rod
Last edited by Rodfac; 12/18/11.
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Everything you now do is something you have chosen to do. Some people don't want to believe that. But if you're over age twenty-one, your life is what you're making of it. To change your life, you need to change your priorities.
Like2....I get 'em as cheap as I can...'bout $3.00 for 250 as I recall...Rod
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Nice shooting! If I shot like that off my back porch, A) I would have to use the neighbor's Buick as a back stop, and B) the good people in Annapolis across the way would think the Naval Academy was under attack or something! Either way, there would be at least two flavors of cops pounding on my front door!
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
gnoahhh Your quote from Lawyer Darrow is priceless...never quite thought of it that way....but...yeah...that about says it all.
BTW, both my son's were Dept of the Navy, one a Marine, the other was the weapons officer on the Alaska SSBN, missile sub. I was an Air Force pilot and never did figure out where I went wrong with those two boys. The Marine holds the M-9 course record at USMC Base, Kaneohe Bay, and his brother is 4 pts shy of Distinguished in CMP/NRA competition with the M1A....Rod
Last edited by Rodfac; 12/18/11.
Thank a vet for your freedoms to worship, assemble, speech and vote. Preachers, politicians, journalists, and other elected officials had nothing to do with it.
God, I have to get a life! I dreamed last night that I was tasked with developing .300 Savage loads for some army or another in a trench warfare situation. All the troops were armed with Savage lever guns and were bitching that their loads weren't powerful enough, and that the mud and grime of the trenches was jamming their rotors. I was feverishly working over a huge open drum of powder cooking up newer hotter loads for them and handing out handfuls of cartridges to guys to run out and try. I remember yelling at them to forget about magazine loading and just use them as single shots! Shells and tracers flashing overhead. Lots of noise and men shouting. Geez, I woke up in a sweat and immediately jotted down the high points before I forgot them. Pretty swell Christmas dream, huh?
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
God, I have to get a life! I dreamed last night that I was tasked with developing .300 Savage loads for some army or another in a trench warfare situation. All the troops were armed with Savage lever guns and were bitching that their loads weren't powerful enough, and that the mud and grime of the trenches was jamming their rotors. I was feverishly working over a huge open drum of powder cooking up newer hotter loads for them and handing out handfuls of cartridges to guys to run out and try. I remember yelling at them to forget about magazine loading and just use them as single shots! Shells and tracers flashing overhead. Lots of noise and men shouting. Geez, I woke up in a sweat and immediately jotted down the high points before I forgot them. Pretty swell Christmas dream, huh?
gnoahhh Your quote from Lawyer Darrow is priceless...never quite thought of it that way....but...yeah...that about says it all.
BTW, both my son's were Dept of the Navy, one a Marine, the other was the weapons officer on the Alaska SSBN, missile sub. I was an Air Force pilot and never did figure out where I went wrong with those two boys. The Marine holds the M-9 course record at USMC Base, Kaneohe Bay, and his brother is 4 pts shy of Distinguished in CMP/NRA competition with the M1A....Rod
Going DE with an M1A is no small feat..Congrats to both of your sons...
"Only Accurate Rifles are Interesting" Col. Townsend Whelen
Sorry, Gary, was out of town over the weekend. That load is predicted to be making the following: 41,376 psi 2560 2183 106% load (compressed charge, which may mean your load goes slower and at lower pressure than predicted above) 98.4% burn
Make the OAL 2.60 and it predicts the following: 44,046 psi 2598 fps 2248 ft-lbs at the muzzle 103% load How is the function of your rifle/magazine with that overall length?
Sorry, Gary, was out of town over the weekend. That load is predicted to be making the following: 41,376 psi 2560 2183 106% load (compressed charge, which may mean your load goes slower and at lower pressure than predicted above) 98.4% burn
Make the OAL 2.60 and it predicts the following: 44,046 psi 2598 fps 2248 ft-lbs at the muzzle 103% load How is the function of your rifle/magazine with that overall length?
They feed and chamber fine. I would think that the 2.68 COL would be less compacted than 2.6, or maybe I am misunderstanding your data. PS The case when charged does not look like it would be compacted.
Geez, gnoahha, what did you eat for dinner...that's some dream...do you remember any of the loads? Rod
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Does anyone have knowledge of Savage's throating practices in the 99/.300? I've had such good luck with the 150 and 125 grainers I've tried to date, that I'm inclined to try some Carbine bullets..the 110 grain FMJ ones that I use in the M1 Carbine. Obviously, a shorter throat would probably work better...I've had good luck with those short numbers in .308 and .30-06 bolt guns for practice out to 100 yds. Too, they work fairly well in a cpl .30-40 Krags which are notoriously long throated...but they do drop off, in those aged veterens at 50 yds or so. Best Regards, Rod
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I've never been able to seat any of my handloads close to the lands in my 99's and still get the cartridges to fit into the magazines. Haven't tried them all, maybe half a dozen.
Doesn't seem to affect the performance significantly.
Sorry, Gary, good call, got that % fill reversed, all the other data is correct for those 2 OALs. The shorter round is a 106% fill, the longer is 103. Too late to edit the original post.
Thanks Mr. Cal...to date, I've found that the published LOA of 2.600" is the max I can get away with in this rifle...so seating out to the lands is not an option unless I single feed them...any longer than that 2.600" and they tend to hang up when I eject a live chambered round. And too, I guess if the throat length was all that critical, I'd not be getting the kind of groups I'm seeing with 150's and 125's. That 110 gr FMJ is really short tho, so we'll see. It might turn out to be a moot point.
My next phase of this project will be delayed til after the holidays, when I'll try the Carbine bullet and several cast bullet types I've got on hand: Lyman 311291gc, 311466gc, 311359gc and a cpl others whose numbers escape my memory at the present. I'm up in NY, right now, near Albany with my wife, visiting what's his name and his wife and LILLY AND AUDREY, our grandchildren...just showing you where Grandpa's priorities are!
Thanks again, Rod
Thank a vet for your freedoms to worship, assemble, speech and vote. Preachers, politicians, journalists, and other elected officials had nothing to do with it.
Sorry, Gary, good call, got that % fill reversed, all the other data is correct for those 2 OALs. The shorter round is a 106% fill, the longer is 103. Too late to edit the original post.
I didn't think 41gr of 4064 was a compressed load. Next time I will check it to see if it is. Thanks for your reply. Have a blessed ChristMass Gary
I had some 150 gr remington factory loads and shot a few of those just to compare recoil and I did notice a difference between the first two loads, however, once I got up to the max, there was very little difference.
Over-all, I did not get very good groupings with any one of these combinations. As I am still fairly new to shooting and reloading, I'm not sure if this is the lighter bullet weight, or just the combination in general, but my best group was with the max load of 42.5 gr, and even that was around 2 1/2" - 3" at 100 yds. Good enough to kill any deer that i am shooting at...? yeah, but I'm kind of a perfectionist when it comes to this stuff. Think i will pick up some varget and some 150 gr bullets to work up some other loads for the next time around.
In everyones experience with hand loads, what has the greatest impact on performance? Bullet weight, powder weight/ type?
In everyones experience with hand loads, what has the greatest impact on performance? Bullet weight, powder weight/ type?
In my opinion, it often depends on the rifle. I'd definitely try a couple of other powders and see how it works out.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Back in 1985 or so, I started playing with .300 Savage loading. I was working in a local gunshop and noticed we had somm 30-30 Remington ammo stuffed with an odd looking 170 grain hollow point bullet. Don't ask me why, but I thought that would be the cat's meow for a .300 Savage, so I started playing. I was able to buy the bullets in bulk, so I bought 500. And started loading them. I started out with 30.0 grains of IMR 3031. 2000fps. I worked up to 35 grains of 3031 and every load shot 1 1/2"- 1 3/4" groups with no trouble. That bullet turned out to be the worst possible bullet I have ever used on deer with a .300 Savage. It was just not a good match. Penetration was horrid, and the hydraulics were phenominal. The one and ONLY deer I ever killed with that bullet was a poorly placed quartering away shot that clipped the paunch as it traveled forward. When it hit that belly there was a :green" explosion of stomach contents. I have never seen anything like that before or after. I use these bullets now in all of my 30-30's and they perform perfectly. After that episode I went back to the bench and came up with the load I use to this day with all of my rifles in .300 Savage.
Powder = 37.2 grains IMR 3031 Bullet = 150 grain Hornady Spire point flat base Primer = Remington 9 1/2 case = Remington
velocity = 2475 FPS through a chronograph Extreme spread = 59 FPS Standard deviation = 19 FPS energy 2020 FT Lbs.
Rifle used for testing Savage 99EG
NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
If you're messing around with 110 grain bullets for rollin' ground hogs take a look at the Hornady 110 RN, #3015. A good combo for stalking them with an ironsighted rifle, if you're in country that allows that type of hunting. Works well in a 30-30 too.
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed-unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison
I'm back in town again and will resume some add'l testing. To date, Hornady's 150 gr Spire point has the edge in accuracy...I've had a half dozen groups below an inch for three shots at one hundred yards. Reloader 15, 3031, and a clone version of 4895 (from Jeff Bartlett at GIBRASS), all of them do the trick with that Hornady offering and with good hunting velocities too...~2550 fps or better. Brass life to date has been good...I'm up to eight loadings with some of it with no real indications of impending separation...and very little trimming which says about the same thing.
Longbeard..my best results with 3031 mirror your load plus a half grain and using Winchester's Lg Rifle Primers. It's a good one. I'm shooting off my porch rail with a 4x Weaver 60-B and estimate my wobble area at 1/2+" or so and still get these fantastic groups. The trigger in this gun has some creep to it, a little like the two-stage 03 Springfield which I have a lot of experience with...but it's entirely manageable with a good let-off.
Steve...I'm going to try some pulled military 110 gr FMJ's for practice...(got a lot of them when they were really cheap)...sometimes they'll do surprisingly well....one of my Springfields will hold pretty close to an inch with them. Too, I've got some TNT's for 'chucks should the need arise... but there is one down in my lower meadow that probably needs to go before the horses find a way to stick a leg down in his hole.
I'll continue to report as the project unfolds...many thanks to all of you who've shared your experience.
Best Regards to all, and Happy New Year. Rod
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Was able to do some shooting here in KY this am...bright, sunny, calm winds and 38 degrees...As reported earlier, I've had good luck with 3031, this load, 38.0 gr is right at max from some manuals, but well under in others...case expansion and primer indications are good with this particular rifle...as always, you're results may differ. I used R-P brass, Win Lg Rifle caps and seated the Sierra 150 gr Flat Base Spitzer to 2.600" Length Overall, as recommended in the '04 version of Sierra's Infinity computer based loading manual. It chrono's at 2572 fps, average, with a 5 shot extreme spread of 15 fps.
I shot off my porch rail, the distance was 100 yds, the group measures 5/8" Love this rifle! Here's a pic...Best Regards, Rod
Rod, just for thrills I put your numbers into QL and at that temp with that bullet powder and COAL data (using the QL preset values) it predicted 2585 fps. That is pretty darned close! Though when the temp gets up to 70 you may find the group opens a bit as the powder burns faster. That is a very safe load, too, predicted max pressure under even the "moderate" zone.
In everyones experience with hand loads, what has the greatest impact on performance? Bullet weight, powder weight/ type?
Man that is a loaded question! Go to a reloading forum and you will hear a number of different theories about that subject.
I was writing a long and boring addition to this, with discussions of OBT and OCW and such, but really, in my experience the Optimal Charge Weight method of load development is what will give you best results the easiest, without a lot of fancy equipment. Read about it here: http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/
I have been using IMR 3031 with hornady interlock sp 150 gr. bullets. My most recent load is 37.0 grains and it works pretty good. 36.5 grains was also a good load. This is pretty mild and I have no desire to shoot blazing fast rounds. My 99 is a 1937 EG and I see no need to push the limits. A good accurate load is all I want.
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
For some unknown reason I never got good results with BL-C2 in the .300 in any of my guns and others I loaded for. Pretty fair results in a few other calibers though. My old standard for the .300 is 4064. 39-40 grains under just about any 150 grain cup-n-core bullet gives me excellent accuracy in mine and and my BIL's rifles. Funny thing, I get high pressure signs if I step even � grain past 40 grains, but it could be due to the truly ancient (but still good) DuPont 4064 I'm still using. Velocity unknown. I don't chrono every load I ever work up. (Still have 4 cans to go before I can start buying "modern" 4064. The stuff I have is still sealed and smells/works fine when I crack the seal on a can. It has been stored properly for nigh on 40 years now.)
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Zooka...yep...pressure indications are about factory expansion across the web, and in the same brass.
Gnoahhh...my lot of 4064 is from 2004 and seems to run a little cooler than previous lots. I've got a sizable supply having used in the 5.56 mm for across the course loads in the AR-15. 99% of my loads use Winchester primers, in my experience, a little hotter than the others...and too, they work well through a Dillon 55B. Loads worked up in warmer weather, may chrono a bit slower in the fall but not by much, at least in the AR. Can't say with regard to the 300 Sav. tho.
Too cold here for the last two days to do any shooting, let alone chrono work...but the end of the week looks better.
Best Regards, Rod
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Rod, you bring up a good point. Perhaps I better get a new can of 4064 and compare chrono results between it and my old stuff. I always suspected it to be a tad hotter when loading "by the book", which is why I drop the loads way down when using it. Everybody seems to like loads of around 2-3 more grains in several calibers than where I start getting pressure signs. Just one more good reason to not put blind faith in any reloading manual, and always start low and work up.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
gnoahh, I'm with ya on that. Seems to me that a lot of the guys I talk to at the shooting range use the max loads in manuals as starting points. I admit that I used to run my reloads a little "warm" shall we say. I of course had special rifles with fast barrels that showed no pressure signs. Yea, right. I finally realized I was wasting my time and risking my noggin and equipment.
I used to love 4064 but I no longer use it in any of the 15 or so rifle calibers I reload for. I've found other powders that I liked better, usually the Ramshot powders.
For the 300 Savage it's 150 grain Speers or 165 grain Partitions and Reloader 15 for me. I can't believe there could be any loads that are more accurate in my rifles.
Gnoahhh...a cpl more thoughts on powder burning rate come to mind...BTW...I subscribe to your thought that dead is dead and an extra 100-200 fps in the bullet makes no real difference at real hunting distances...and guns that are 50-100+ years old do not need to be pushed to the maximum.
I use Winchester Primers for all my loads, in all calibers..the standard caps, but they do have an anecdotal reputation for being hotter than most of the other makes. So it occurs to me that where I'm seeing a "hotter" burning powder, I may in fact have "hotter" caps increasing the burning rate, or at least moving the pressure curve closer to the chamber. I've used them for the last 15 yrs at least. They work well through a Dillon 550B for all my pistol loads where some of the others hang up, (CCI in particular)...and are generally available here in Louisville at the big gunshows.
That said, I have found that Unique, manufactured in the last 5 years burns slower than the lots available 15 yrs ago...chrono'd. It's not much, 0.2 grain differences on a 5.0 - 7.0 grain load, but it's there in my experience. On the other hand, 2400 is faster...in particular, Keith's old load for the .44 Magnum (22.0 of 2400 behind a 240 gr cast SWC) is too hot for my guns. I've found that 20.0 gr of current production 2400 gives the same velocity.
Lastly, at 65 yrs old, I've accumulated a bunch of different loading manuals over the years...all the way from Whelen's "Why Not Load Your Own" published in the late 40's, to Sierra's most current "Infinity" computer based loading and ballistic program. The differences, in some cases, are remarkable...(BTW: most of the Whelen jacketed loads in some of my favorite older calibers, are definitely too hot, but he was spot on with his cast bullet data.)
Now whether it's due to faster lots of powder or hotter caps, I can't say. But I'd caution that anyone who routinely goes to the max loads in any manual, or feels that some of the current "milder" max loads are due to a lawyer's influence on the powder manufacturer's published data, may be walking in a fool's paradise. The old saw about starting low and working up is as true today as it was 50 yrs ago when I started rolling my own.
Recommendations offered here or anywhere for that matter, are of use in a general sense...particularly so, in the brand/type of powder selected, but the actual charge wts. that'll produce the elusive one hole group are a function of the individual gun, its owner's loading techniques, and the components employed. So too, is the pressure generated.
Best Regards, Rod
Last edited by Rodfac; 01/04/12.
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As to primers, I too like to stay standardized as much as possible on one make, in order to maintain predictability if for no other reason. I lucked into a huge stash of RWS LR primers years ago and all of my current data is based on them. God help me when I run out and can't get any more. Early comparisons between them and other domestic brands show them to be milder than most all of them, and extremely consistent. Standard deviation with several pet loads indicate a favorable likeness to Federal Benchrest primers, my old favorite. Could well be hogwash for I certainly don't have the laboratory equipment to conclusively measure all of that, just a chronograph.
A cautious attitude fueled by a rational brain is the most important tool for any hand loader.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Has anyone noticed a lot of neck clearance in .300 Savage chambers? I had a 1950's 99EG some years ago that had about .009 to .010" clearance in the neck, which seems excessive. Or maybe it was sized for older brass, that had thicker necks?
Something that may be of interest. In March of '05 I chronoed different vintages of IMR-4064 in my 7x57 with 150 grain Remington Cor-Loct bullets. The oldest lot was from 1968 while the newer one was a lot from 2000. 40 grains of the older produced 2362 fps, while the newer ran 2339 fps. So, across 32 years the difference seems pretty insignificant.
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths. "there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser" "the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
I guess we should factor in the lot-to-lot differences in burn rates of powders made in the same year too.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Savage (and others) had their chambering reamers ground to maximum SAAMI dimensions, and hoped to stay within spec as the reamers wore and were re-sharpened-- eventually ending up cutting chambers/necks with minimum tolerances before the reamer would be sh*t canned.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Has anyone noticed a lot of neck clearance in .300 Savage chambers? I had a 1950's 99EG some years ago that had about .009 to .010" clearance in the neck, which seems excessive. Or maybe it was sized for older brass, that had thicker necks?
Whoahh, let's try to stick to one cartridge at least at a time. is that a 308 Win or 300 Sav? Bottom line is that you see sooting in these cartrdges only when pressure is too low to blow out the neck to seal the cartridge. In other words, too stiff of brass and/or too sharp of detonation.
Zook...just to comment on your sooting comment...I've had sooting on just about any load I've assembled over the years...in fact, factory loads show it as well...it's a matter of degree. Higher pressures producing less, but all showed some. I doubt it has any effect on brass or the chamber, aside from the aesthetics.
Just finished up some add'l testing with a couple of lighter weight bullets...in my 300 Sav 99.
110 gr Pulled military M1 Carbine FMJ bullets 19.0 gr of SR 4759 (max from an older Speer manual), R-P brass, Win Lg Rifle caps gave me an average of 7/8" for 5 groups at 50 yds. Velocity, not chrono'd but estimated from Speer's data is 1900 fps...'bout the same as from my old Inland M1 Carbine but roughly 1/3 the group size. A good practice load in this Savage, especially since I've got a good supply purchased at a nickle a piece some years ago. This load impacts 1-3/4" below a 2600 fps 150 gr load developed for deer, ie 3-1/2 MOA low. Very mild pressure indications with this load.
With Speer's excellent 125 gr HP TNT, and 16.0 gr of SR 4759 (the starting load from the same Speer manual), with the same components, I got 3 stellar groups averaging 1/2" at the same yardage. This load, estimated at 1700 fps from the same manual's data, is very quiet, about the same as a .22 Magnum with virtually no recoil. Here on the farm, it should be useful for the occasional woodchuck out to 100 yds or so, and maybe even better when my pals come over and bet on groups shot off the porch rail range....(local knowledge is always useful, and the old saw, "age and stealth will always overcome youth and skill", still applies).
Both loads were worked up in my rifle, and as always, your results may vary..and work up slowly. Best Regards, Rod
Thank a vet for your freedoms to worship, assemble, speech and vote. Preachers, politicians, journalists, and other elected officials had nothing to do with it.
My favorite 300 Savage loads are: With 150 grain bullets, 40 grains of IMR 4064, 42 grains of WW-748, and 40 grains of IMR 4895. With 180 grain bullets, 41 grains of WW-748. The 150 grain loads run around 2,540 fps in 22" barrels, and the 180 grain bullets run around 2,450 fps in 24" barrels and 2,335 fps in a 20" 99E barrel.. Oddly enough, the powder in commercially loaded Remington and Federal ammo looks like WW-748, and the loads are very close to my load of 42 grains of 748 in fps.
Hornady's Superformance ammo is loaded with 44.5 grains of what looks like Leverevolution (LVR) powder and their own 300 Savage version of an SST. I have loaded this using my components and found it to be very close to the factory ammo in velocity. Neither one was very accurate. Velocity in a 22" Savage 99F barrel was around 2,670 fps, close to specs. I'm working on loads using LVR powder and 180 grain round nose bullets with the aim of higher velocity in my 20" 99F. I will report more when I can finally get to the range again.
An aside: I really like LVR powder in my 25-3000 Savage 99F rifle. I have no problem getting 3,000 fps with 87 and 90 grain bullets, and good accuracy to boot. Pressure is not high with 37.5 grains of LVR, either.
I'm loading 41.5 grains of Accurate 2495 with WW primers with 150 grain Hornady Spire points. Groups well in my 99R. All the deer I have shot with it found it a life altering experience.
My favorite load for the .300SAV is a 180 grain JSP in front of 32 grains of Varget for about 2200FPS. (Fwiw, I prefer a "heavy for caliber" bullet for hunting.)
For a FASTER/flatter shooting load, a 150 grain JSP in front of 38 grains of Varget for about 2400FPS is FINE too.
Just my OPINIONS, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt. Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar F'by 24, 1836
I just started a load dev for my .300 (99 takedown/2.5x scope). So far, the Hornady SST 300 Savage bullet is showing very well, no chrony yet but a stout load of varget, cci primer at 2.60 oal (just getting into the cannelure) getting 1.5 inch groups at 100yrds. I had a good rest but at only 2.5X couldn't really see the middle of the target and was blown away at the difference from the NBT and Speer bullets, loaded the same specs. Anyone else try the HDY'S?
Are You going to try bumping velocity up on those Brian? Or have you decided that's your best accuracy load?
Nah, keeping the velocity low (thus the pressure) since this is a 1940 rifle. My most accurate load is with W748 @42 grs behind a Hornady 150 gr BTSP.--> 1.51 MOA @ 100 yds with a Marbles .050 aperature peep was my best.(Bench rest, sandbagged) Some days are better than others with old eyes and iron sights!
I just started a load dev for my .300 (99 takedown/2.5x scope). So far, the Hornady SST 300 Savage bullet is showing very well, no chrony yet but a stout load of varget, cci primer at 2.60 oal (just getting into the cannelure) getting 1.5 inch groups at 100yrds. I had a good rest but at only 2.5X couldn't really see the middle of the target and was blown away at the difference from the NBT and Speer bullets, loaded the same specs. Anyone else try the HDY'S?
What kind of reticle is in the scope? Sometimes it's easier to quarter a larger target than it is to aim at a small point, if the reticle is suitable.
IF I might make a suggestion for a "brush country" deer-hunting load, try the 170 grain (that is "usual fodder" for the .30-30) cast bullet (in .309 caliber) in front of enough Varget to equal .32-40WCF ballistics. = IF you cast your own bullets, it's REALLY easy on your pocketbook, too. (Many THOUSANDS of deer were taken by the "old school" .32-40 at about 1400 FPS & deer haven't gotten harder to kill in the 21st Century.)
One of my "pet loads" is a 170 grain GCCB in front of 16 grains of 2400 at about 1800FPS. = That cheap/"easy on the shoulder" load is "A KILLER" on WT & hogs out to 150-200M. = The cast bullet will generally "pass through" a BIG whitetail from most any angle.
BEST WISHES with your .300 SAV. - That particular caliber (out of my Model 760 pump-rifle) is my "go to medicine" for South Texas hunting for WTs, hogs & exotics.
yours, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt. Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar F'by 24, 1836
Regarding the question by TomS, above, I am shooting the 150 grain Hornady SSTs made for the 300 Savage. I like them. I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die on most of my handloads, especially the 300 Savage. One of my friends from the range, a gent who is now 92, did a lot of deer hunting in Canada in the 1950s. He used his 308 and 358 Winchester rifles (I think they were both Sakos). He loaded 170 grain 30-30 bullets in his 308 and 200 grain 35 Remington bullets in his 358 and killed plenty of whitetails and bears using those bullets as some of his compadres would get drunk and ask him to "fill their tags". He said both loads killed like lightning.
Yep, larger target will help, it's a post reticle. But I'm very happy with the way the gun shoots, great walking around gun, for some of the deer hunting I do.
I have found that 41 grains of reloder 15 give the best accuracy with plenty of knockdown power on Michigan Whitetail deer. Also hot enough for me, 42 grains got a little hard to extract.
I have found that 41 grains of reloder 15 give the best accuracy with plenty of knockdown power on Michigan Whitetail deer. Also hot enough for me, 42 grains got a little hard to extract.
With what weight bullet? Huge difference between a 110 grainer and a 180.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
I have one of the powder profile publications put out by Wolfe probably in the 70s and there is one load in there that is juiced up to 2800-FPS. I always considered that way to warm. Some years back there was a tangle up on this forum with a member (who I haven’t seen in years) wanting to go down the path of making a 300 into a 308. He was hell bent to do the experiment and it didn’t matter telling him it had already been done. Seems to me that fact would have taken some wind out of the sails but he saw the wheels fit for reinvention.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
I have a 300 savage in a 99F at a LGS on lay-a-way I have some 150gr Speer FN and SP that I plan to try in it. Rel-15 was one of the powders I was planning on trying. I also have IMR 3031, 4320, 4985, 4064, AA2530, Win 748, AR-Comp, others to try if needed.
I figure the 150gr bullets would work the best, although I have a wide range of bullet weights and styles if needed.
I don't drink or Smoke. I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline.
I have a 300 savage in a 99F at a LGS on lay-a-way I have some 150gr Speer FN and SP that I plan to try in it. Rel-15 was one of the powders I was planning on trying. I also have IMR 3031, 4320, 4985, 4064, AA2530, Win 748, AR-Comp, others to try if needed.
I figure the 150gr bullets would work the best, although I have a wide range of bullet weights and styles if needed.
I use the Sierra 150gr Spitzers and 38gr of 4064. Shoots very well.
I've had excellent accuracy in a 99R 30's DOB rifle with 3031, AL15, and Varget. I do have both 4895's and 4064 around which I've loaded numerous MILSURP rifle's/ammo for, but not the 300 Savage. Just for additional info, I've used 3031, RL15, and Varget with great success in 300 Savage loadings for my two Remington 81's. All 300 Savage loads have been with Speer 150 grain SP's and RN bullets. Have been doing some early loadings with 150 and 160 grain Lee cast bullet loadings, but not enough yet to post anything, but they are good shooters and alot cheaper target shooting than using jacketed bullets.
Now that IMR4320 has been discontinued it looks like I'll be back to IMR4064 or one of the 4895's.
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I run IMR powders and in the case of .300 Savage and a lot of my other .30 calibers rifles, IMR 4895. I have laboriously formed these from excessive .308 Winney mixed brass in which I load:
41 Gr. IMR 4895 (.5 Gr. below max in Lymans 45th edition, compressed) Primer: Remington 9 1/2 Bullet: 150 Gr. Speer flat bottom Spitzers Cartridge overall length: 2.580
Although I DO NOT have a chrony, these have been VERY accurate rounds for me and knocks a whitetail down right on the spot if placement is accurate. Please don't underestimate the versatility of IMR 4895. This can be an exceptional load in your Savage 99 if you start low and work up, checking pressures.
"Be A Good Listener. Your Ears Will Never Get You In Trouble"
I settled on 38.0gr. 4064 and Sierra 150 spitzer for a general .300 Savage load long ago. Works well in any rifle I fed with them and is sufficiently low in pressure so as not to compromise case life.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
40 grains IMR 4895, 150 grain Nosler ballistic tip or partition. Very accurate in several of my 300's. I've killed an elk and a whitetail with the partition load and a mule deer with the BT load. I get around 1 to 1 1/4" groups at the range with these loads in a 99G, 99K and 99EG 300's.
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
I'll have to try some H/IMR 4895's and 4064 loads in my 99R in 300 Savage. When I did load up various loads using those three powders it was in my 300 Savage Rem 81's (Loggah coined "Pogo Sticks ) and 3031, Varget, and AL15 gave me better accuracy in those rifles. I've loaded alot of 30/06 for M1 Garand, 03's, 8mm, etc using the 4895's and 4064 for those rifles and are my main go to powder.
When I was a young kid our home had only one center-fire rifle, my Dad's M99 300 Savage. When I turned 12 I got my own rifle, a M70 Winchester in 270 and then I got a full reloading set up from Herders about 4 months later. So I started loading for my rifle and my Dad said "well we may as well make ammo for mine too", and bough a set of dies for the 300 Sav.
I remember I used war surplus H4831 in my 270 which could be had for just over $1 a pound back then. The 300 Savage used 4064 and thought paying around $5 was painful. But we bit the bullet and paid the high price for 4064 and I loaded ammo for that rifle too for a short time.
About 4-5 years ago I came full-circle and got a Savage M99 in 300, and very soon thereafter I got a Remington M81 also in 300. So I am back the the 300 Savage ammo-making gig. I want back to 4064 for most of my loads.
Here are some of my notes -------re-typed for those that are interested.
In the M99
Reformed 1974 Lake City machine gun brass, trimmed to length and neck turned to make the new neck bottom the same thickness as the case mouth.
CCI Large Rifle Primers.
150 grain bullets used are Remington C.Ls, 150 grain Nosler B.Ts. and 150 grain Winchester Power Points.
All used with 39.7Gr 4064. The Noslet BTs shoot the best, followed by the C.Ls and the W.P.Ps. coming in last place, but the difference between best and worst on targets is 1.125" with the Noslers and 1.390 with the power Points. (less than a bullet width) The rifle has a fine bead and a Williams peep, so all come in under 1.5MOA. Certainly good enough to kill game with. My Chronograph shows be slight differences between the differing makes of 150 grain bullets, but the average for them all is 2532 FPS
I have killed antelope and deer with the Remington CLs and also 2 deer with the Nosler BTs
I did load some 140 grain Hornady Mono-Flex bullets and I killed 2 antelope with them. Worked great, but I can't say they are any better then the Remington's in how they kill. 41 grains of 4064 and they shoot VERY well with an average of about 1.1 MOA and 2 groups I shot with then gave me around 3/4 at 100. I was VERY pleased to do that with an iron sighted gun at my age. The Chronograph says 2658 FPS. Hard to find, and quite expensive, but in my Savage 99 they have been the most accurate so far.
I have also tried three 180 grains bullets in the Savage 99:
Sierra Pro-Hunters with 37.9 Gr of Accurate 2495 3.3 MOA
180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Hunting 37.8 4064. 3.3 MOA
180 grain Winchester Power Points 37.2 of 4064. 2.233" That's the best I have got so far with 180s from my M99. Velocity averages 2328 FPS. So far I have not killed any game with the 180s from either my M99 or from my M81, and the last game I killed with 180 grain loads from a 300 Savage was my Dad's gun even before I got my 270 when I was 12. So I think that would have been around 1966-1967. They were factory loads, (before I got my rifle and my reloader) but I can't remember for sure what brand.
In my Remington M81 I use 39 grains of 4064. The slight drop in the load made the gun shoot a bit better with 150 grain bullets than it does with the 39.7 listed above that I use in the lever action. I get groups with this auto-loader running from around 3 MOA down to about 1.8 MOA, but it has only the original open sights on it, and I am pretty sure the gun would do batter then I can with a flat bladed open rear and a 1/16" brass bead in the front being used with 65 year old eyes. Nevertheless, I have killed 4 deer with it now and with the 150 grain load and the Nosler BT bullets I can hit a small apple with it from a make-shift rest at 100 yards, so it's good enough to fill my freezer. The Rem CLs shoot almost as well with the same load of 4064. My average from my Remington is 2377 FPS
Just last year I decided to re-sight it for 180 grain bullets. I figure I can't reach out very far because of the coarse sights and old eyes, so I may as well see what I can do with the 180s. I loaded some factory Winchester 300 Save brass instead of the reformed machine gun brass with 37.8 of 4064. The groups go about 2.5 to 3", so they are not far behind what I got with the 150 grain bullets and for hunting in the brush or trees, I figure to use the rifle at ranges that may go out to 200, but most shots will be 100 or less. My load in this rifle surprised me, being faster than I thought it would be. The Chronograph says 2385 FPS so with the loads I am using my 180s are slightly faster then my 150s.Weird. But the gun works perfectly with both loads and shoots well enough to suit any task I'd ask of it. If I want longer range or better accuracy I have many scoped rifles that shoot sub-MOA. But the fun of using the old classic makes for more fun. (for me anyway)
I may kill an elk with it so I think I'll leave it as my "180 grain shooter" from now on. I tried 180 grain Nosler BTs and got my best at around 2.5" and then I tried the Winchester Power Points of the same weight and they shot just as well. It's been a long time since I killed an elk or deer with a 180 grain bullet from a 300 Savage, but I may get another chance. We'll see..............
I've been shooting the 125 Gr Nosler BT over 44.0 grains Varget for about 2850 FPS. Flat shooter and a stunner on deer and antelope. This load is sub MOA in my 99 FWT. Savages shouldn't shoot that good!
Sierra Manual Edition V claims a max load of 44.5 grains of Varget with their 150 grain bullets....This in a Savage 112 bolt gun (this was mentioned above)...That has got to be somewhat compressed with their recommended 2.600 OAL.
I loaded 42.3 behind a Hornady 150 Spire Point, OAL 2.620, CCI 200S, Hornady case and it would not group better than about 3.5 inches for three shots and several groups. I did put a slight crimp for no other reason than the bullet has a cannelure. This in a 1960 99F, Burris 2.5X20 Full Field scope in low Weaver mounts.
Dropped to 42 grains and a Sierra 150 grain Round Nose Pro hunter at 2.350 OAL (no crimp) and can put three shots into less than an inch at 100 yards regularly. The Hornady load chronographed average 2650 and I haven't chronoed the Sierra but probably around 2600 or a little less. This will be my Whitetail, Black Bear load.
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