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OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,939 Likes: 3 |
Can someone please explain to me why that I, as a flight instructor, am legally required by TSA to verify the citizenship of all new flight students - or face a $10,000 fine per instance of noncompliance. While the US Gov't is telling all the state law inforcemnt agencies that they can not ask for proof of citizenship? 
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Because your ticket is issued by the FAA and they like to flex their muscles. It's not unlike the harassment that a FFL holder signs up for when they get their license from the BATFE.
I've always wondered why you're required to allow the FAA to run a driver's license database check when you apply for a medical certificate. I can't think of anything that your driver's license has to do with flying an airplane, yet you have to submit to it or lose your medical certificate.
I fly for a cargo airline and get the honor of being randomly piss and breath tested to keep my medical certificate. I got to do it a week ago after a 9 hour flight from London. I got to hang around the airport an extra 45 minutes to do the tests at 1 AM before my four hour drive home, that was fun. The courts say that's okay but it's not okay to drug test some crack mother on welfare before giving her the taxpayer's money.
They do it because they can, to let you know your place.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Tell me why as an employer I can get into hot water for not getting a social security number on a new hire and asking if they are a citizen, but if I think they are illegal and don't hire them I'm in hot water for that too.
Otto is my co-pilot.
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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This is not our Frendly Aviation Administration I am talking about but the TSA.
In fact according to the TSA, a flight instructors certificate is only valid if the holder passes TSA instruction EVERY year - rather than the 2 years the FAA requires.
So I guess the TSA trumps the FAA
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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...according to the TSA, a flight instructors certificate is only valid if the holder passes TSA instruction EVERY year.. Can't have one without the other. I've got to have a FCC radiotelephone operator's permit. It has nothing to do with the FAA but if I don't have it I can't exercise the privledges of my FAA certificates. Just because the FAA isn't doing it to you directly they can still put plenty of restrictions on your license, one of them is that you complete the TSA training every year. I'm not saying it's right, but they do keep us under their thumbs through creative means.
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Campfire Ranger
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The only change we'd see if the TSA went away would be improved quality of life in this country. Our safety has nothing to do with the TSA. People who think that it does are deluded. There certainly are places in this country where safety of the 'Homeland' could be improved. I won't hold my breath. We, the citizens of this country, have been tested. I don't think we did so well on it either.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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From what I'm reading in all the above posts - it seems you're doomed to fines/license loss no matter what ya do..
Talk about over-regulation!!! Unbelievable..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire Tracker
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"If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go wherever they went." -Will Rogers
"If you have a lot of self control you don't need a lot of government control" - Thomas Sowell
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Campfire Tracker
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I wonder how well it would go over if TSA required all NEA employed teachers to verify citizenship of their students ?
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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It's part of your livelihood, and you're not a government protected class, so whatever means of coercion are permitted.
I think fascism is the word I'm looking for.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." TJ
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". EB
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Campfire Regular
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To answer your original question, "your students aren't fruit pickers..." lol
I am 100% against waterboarding. Splatter their brains out the back of their heads.
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So Phil, do you teach new students?
Brian
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BW, since I see you are an Alaskan I am hesitant to tell you - but yes, i still teach the occasional student. But as I tell all of them - I have forgotten more than I ever knew
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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In reading the above posts I was wondering if anyone else remembered planes flying into buildings a decade ago. If people don't remember those aircraft crashing into buildings I sure they also don't remember how, for around six years after anyone daring to question the Governments actions were "shouted down", called anti-American, Traitors, Unpatriotic, ... French ... the shouters asked why those questioning Governments actions didn't want to be kept safe, among other things. Then a funny thing happened. Late in 08/ early '09 all these things the Government was doing and requiring us to do went from being Good Patriotic acts to being anti-American/ Fascist/ socialist/ Communist things. Yep it was ... something ... to watch the very same people who supported all these actions and regulations imposed by out Government do a complete and total flip-flop and were now against everything they had previously supported. So the answer to the question, why do flight instructors have to fill out paperwork and make sure their students are legitimate has something to do with flight students hijacking heavy jets and flying them into buildings, which, apparently, people have forgotten. If there is a youngster reading this thread there is a very important lesson here: Things that happen today which compel you to behave in irrational ways, even insane ways, given time, won't even be remembered. So think carefully before taking action.
Last edited by BobInNEO; 11/25/11.
The Tea Party: An American Political Party based on a 4th grade understanding of History.
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Campfire Ranger
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In reading the above posts I was wondering if anyone else remembered planes flying into buildings a decade ago. If people don't remember those aircraft crashing into buildings I sure they also don't remember how, for around six years after anyone daring to question the Governments actions were "shouted down", called anti-American, Traitors, Unpatriotic, ... French ... the shouters asked why those questioning Governments actions didn't want to be kept safe, among other things. Then a funny thing happened. Late in 08/ early '09 all these things the Government was doing and requiring us to do went from being Good Patriotic acts to being anti-American/ Fascist/ socialist/ Communist things. Yep it was ... something ... to watch the very same people who supported all these actions and regulations imposed by out Government do a complete and total flip-flop and were now against everything they had previously supported. So the answer to the question, why do flight instructors have to fill out paperwork and make sure their students are legitimate has something to do with flight students hijacking heavy jets and flying them into buildings, which, apparently, people have forgotten. If there is a youngster reading this thread there is a very important lesson here: Things that happen today which compel you to behave in irrational ways, even insane ways, given time, won't even be remembered. So think carefully before taking action. you missed the whole point of the post...... .gov is saying you have to ask citizenship or be fined if your person A but if your person B your not allowed to ask about citizenship.....Phil wasnt complaining that he had to, he was complaining others, state law enforcement in this case, are not allowed to and punished if they do....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,939 Likes: 3 |
That is exactly my point. Why are flight instructors required by law to check a students citizenship - while the US gov't is sueing states to keep their law enforcement agencies from checking the same thing?
And how far do you think a law would go requiring certified teachers in public school to check the citizenship of all their students? ACLU and the NEA would be all over that.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2010
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In reading the above posts I was wondering if anyone else remembered planes flying into buildings a decade ago. If people don't remember those aircraft crashing into buildings I sure they also don't remember how, for around six years after anyone daring to question the Governments actions were "shouted down", called anti-American, Traitors, Unpatriotic, ... French ... the shouters asked why those questioning Governments actions didn't want to be kept safe, among other things. Then a funny thing happened. Late in 08/ early '09 all these things the Government was doing and requiring us to do went from being Good Patriotic acts to being anti-American/ Fascist/ socialist/ Communist things. Yep it was ... something ... to watch the very same people who supported all these actions and regulations imposed by out Government do a complete and total flip-flop and were now against everything they had previously supported. So the answer to the question, why do flight instructors have to fill out paperwork and make sure their students are legitimate has something to do with flight students hijacking heavy jets and flying them into buildings, which, apparently, people have forgotten. If there is a youngster reading this thread there is a very important lesson here: Things that happen today which compel you to behave in irrational ways, even insane ways, given time, won't even be remembered. So think carefully before taking action. you missed the whole point of the post...... .gov is saying you have to ask citizenship or be fined if your person A but if your person B your not allowed to ask about citizenship.....Phil wasnt complaining that he had to, he was complaining others, state law enforcement in this case, are not allowed to and punished if they do.... To put it in other terms then, it's because we are reactionary instead of precautionary. Hence, 9/11 is why you do that. Until something happens to change the rest, it will continue on at it's current PC pace.
"If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go wherever they went." -Will Rogers
"If you have a lot of self control you don't need a lot of government control" - Thomas Sowell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Because it's the government.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 555 |
Easy test: During first lesson, do an accelerated stall and cross the controls. If the student yells:
"oh my God"; "Sweet Jesus"; or "[bleep] me"; they are probably ok.
if they scream anything resembling "Allah" or "virgins here I come!", well......
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,941 Likes: 1 |
Can someone please explain to me why that I, as a flight instructor, am legally required by TSA to verify the citizenship of all new flight students - or face a $10,000 fine per instance of noncompliance. While the US Gov't is telling all the state law inforcemnt agencies that they can not ask for proof of citizenship? Total BS, Phil that is why
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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