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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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the real problem like everyone is saying is rifle fire against pistol fire. Yup, don't prepare for combat with only a pistol. As COL Cooper said, if he really expected trouble, he'd have a rifle. A Steyr Scout loaded with 110gr. TAP would have ended that affair rather quickly. I consider the Steyr Scout to be a lousy combat rifle. How much ammo have you put through one?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I think ANY rifle in an FBI agent's hands would have changed the history significantly. Even a Steyr Scout.
I've put a couple dozen rounds thru a Steyr Scout. I'd love to have one, but not at the price they go for.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I hear ya, but my observations from many years on the street is that cops have to let the other guy dictate the level of force. All police use of force is reactive in nature-the violator dictates the response. The legal criteria for use of force have to be met before force can be used lawfully. Once they are met, the force must be reasonable under the circumstances, which is not the same as "minimum force" as mentioned by E.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
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I have noticed when I have wounded and made a poor hit on animals that I have been hunting that it seems like it takes even more subsequent rounds to put them down after a poor shot. wonder if people are the same way.
the one article someone linked to that talked about the way pistol rounds wound, it didn't say it but, it seemed to support whatever round penetrated the best as the best choice. that fn 5-7 with its speedy little round my satisfy who's ever opinion it was that wrote the article.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
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I have noticed when I have wounded and made a poor hit on animals that I have been hunting that it seems like it takes even more subsequent rounds to put them down after a poor shot. Yep. It's the increased blood pressure when an animal is stressed that has to be overcome. On a DRT kill, an animal's spleen will typically be soft and pliable when you gut it. On an animal that takes flight and lives a while before it expires the spleen will be firm and contracted. The body is trying to shunt every drop of blood to maintain BP.
Last edited by Take_a_knee; 11/23/11. Reason: spellin'
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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Apparently it lead to alot of changes at the FBI and eventually likely led to the 40 S&W. It also led to the Hornady XTP.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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�When a man with a Mini-14 meets a man with a S&W snub nose, the man with the S&W snub nose is a dead man.�
Exactly. Give the agents AR's and things get a lot tougher for the bad guys..... Typical Law Enforcement stupidity. LEO's can be some of the most ignorant gun owners. Not all but most I know are.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,130 Likes: 3 |
Apparently it lead to alot of changes at the FBI and eventually likely led to the 40 S&W. It also led to the Hornady XTP. how is the XTP any different than a regular hollow point pistol bullet??
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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Getting shot at with automatic rifle fire, essentially hiding behind toilet paper for protection, sorts out people quickly, college or not. A mini-14 is not an automatic.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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Apparently it lead to alot of changes at the FBI and eventually likely led to the 40 S&W. It also led to the Hornady XTP. how is the XTP any different than a regular hollow point pistol bullet?? The very lengthy report on the requirements the FBI placed on the new bullet and Hornady's response in developing the XTP at their behest is a good read. If you take the time to read it you will likely be packing XTP's in your defense gun afterwards.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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the real problem like everyone is saying is rifle fire against pistol fire. Yup, don't prepare for combat with only a pistol. As COL Cooper said, if he really expected trouble, he'd have a rifle. A Steyr Scout loaded with 110gr. TAP would have ended that affair rather quickly. That's fine if you are engaging from a position of advantage. If you have overcome someone else's initiative then I'll take an AR thank you.
![[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/b6/d8/98b6d863a5f722b551cd8e1440bd2bd4.jpg) Z
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,995 Likes: 3 |
Getting shot at with automatic rifle fire, essentially hiding behind toilet paper for protection, sorts out people quickly, college or not. A mini-14 is not an automatic. Enlighten us.....or are you so anal you engrave an "S" in your 45 A.C.P. cases?
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
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I did not read all the posts, but a few.
We can all agree that it was tradgic day.
A lot of hard lessons were learned and newer tactics and equipment spawnd from it. The FBI adobted the 10mm, then we got the 40 cal. The 40 was refured to as the "40 short and wimpy" when it first came out. I think some guys thought they throttled it back to much. Then we got a number of different bullet designs, XTP's, Black Talons, Golden Sabres.....
Before the shooting a lot of cars did not have a rifle in them, maybe a shotgun. I think the FBI should have kept the State and local Officers informed what was going on and cordinated the stop. Sometimes I think they think/thought of the FBI as supercops, just yell FBI and they lay down and cuff themselves.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I did not read all the posts, but a few.
We can all agree that it was tradgic day.
A lot of hard lessons were learned and newer tactics and equipment spawnd from it. The FBI adobted the 10mm, then we got the 40 cal. The 40 was refured to as the "40 short and wimpy" when it first came out. I think some guys thought they throttled it back to much. Then we got a number of different bullet designs, XTP's, Black Talons, Golden Sabres.....
Before the shooting a lot of cars did not have a rifle in them, maybe a shotgun. I think the FBI should have kept the State and local Officers informed what was going on and cordinated the stop. Sometimes I think they think/thought of the FBI as supercops, just yell FBI and they lay down and cuff themselves. Very true. Most DEA, FBI, USMS offices, have local LE resources assigned to taskforces in the Feds operating areas. This due to local LEO's know the area & people better. Plus the locals LEO's help coordinate between local LE & the Feds. Manytimes there's cases that are intertwined that local agencies & Fed agencies are both working on.
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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a ruger mini 14 is a semi automatic not an automatic. thus consider yourself enlightened. 
Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.
When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
PAYPAL, sucks and I will never use them again. I recommend you do the same.
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
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I think the information sharing has got better over the years, but is still not perfect. When I was lowly Deputy, the State boys would ask after the fact.
As for the mini 14, Gordon Kahl used one to the max.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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![[Linked Image]](http://store.vintagepaperads.com/catalog/BR1138.jpg) Life was much simpler then; when everything didn't have to be spelled out for retards......
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 34,261 |
Getting shot at with automatic rifle fire, essentially hiding behind toilet paper for protection, sorts out people quickly, college or not. A mini-14 is not an automatic. I believe one of the bad guys converted the mini-14 to full automatic. The mini-14 can be purchased as a full automatic with the right papers.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Tracker
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I would take the Mini for a fighting rifle.
NRA Life Member
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've run a Mini-14 through a couple of carbine classes without a failure of any kind, which I did mostly to prove a point. I've seen every brand of entry-level AR puke at these classes while my Mini carried on. It's not a particularly accurate rifle, and if you run crap magazines, it'll puke on you. But it'll run like a top if you give it good mags and lube it well.
It sure worked fine for Platt. And no, Platt's Mini-14 was not full auto.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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