Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 6.5 mm's for hunting?

R R - I'm not mad, just tired so this is my last response.

1. You ask how is s d more relevant than weight.
That is the reason you & others don't understand the reality.

The s d is the ratio of dia/length and with the same nose shape, bullets with similar s ds are proportional.

When you compare 130 wt between 264 & 270, you're NOT comparing proportional bullets. (apples/oranges) A 130 264 is more aerodynamic than a 130 270 BUT is COMPARABLE to a 140 270.

2. AS any bullet's s d increases velocity decreases in the same cart. The 6.5 loses TOOO.

3. B Cs are only accurate indicators when used with bullets of similar S D. (comparable)

THUS using 264 120 gr IS comparable to 270 130 gr.

and 264 130 IS comparable to 270 140 gr.

I don't know your reloading background and I'm NOT being critical, but this lack of understanding is the reason you don't understand the REAL relationship between the 260 & 270.

We have writers here on the fire that can explain this better than I. And they do understand.

No hard feelings. I am buying a 6.5X55 and keeping my 270s.

Happy Thanksgiving

Jerry, go look at my new thread '260 Rifles done' in custom forum.

6.5 - 10/4 and gone.

I understand completely about sectional density, bullet shapes, aerodynamics, etc. I understand the reasoning behind why one might compare based on SD, but there's no reason to limit the analysis to just bullets with similar SD because there is no law that states we have to shoot bullets with a certain SD. Using a similar SD is one way to compare, but not the only way to compare. Even if you limit yourself to comparing based on SD, 6.5mm bullets have better BCs than comparable .277" bullets with the same SDs (see a thread that someone started this afternoon showing that, based on SD, .277" bullets have lower BCs than 6.5mm and 7mm bullets - there's no denying facts). See also the analysis below. One could use recoil as a basis for comparison, and that's as relevant as SD if recoil is your primary interest. There has even been talk on multiple occasions here at the Campfire that SD isn't relevant in comparing bullets any more given that modern bullets like the Barnes TSX (and other monometals) and the Berger VLD work so differently than the traditional cup-and-core bullets. That's kind of a different topic, but it is relevant to this discussion in that we're no longer bound to using a certain SD bullet for a certain application any more (i.e., bullets with the same SD are not necessarily equivalent any more). You're trying to normalize using SD with the assumption that normalizing with SD will make the BCs essentially equivalent, which you assume will prove your erroneous assertion that a larger case ALWAYS equals more velocity down range by limiting the variables to basically just case size and velocity, which are related. Even using the same SD and bullet design, we'll see below that the blanket assertion is false.

I gave an example of how a bullet from a .260 Rem would have the same velocity at 650 yards as a comparable bullet with the same mass from a .270 Win even though the .260 Rem bullet started 250 fps slower. I disproved your blanket statement with hard data, and you aren't willing to admit your blanket statement was erroneous, as many blanket statements are. You disagreed with the basis for the analysis (using bullets of the same design with the same mass). Here, let's do it your way with SD as equivalent as it can be, and we'll still see that your blanket statement was false.

Elevation = 1000 ft, 22" barrels, realistic loading manual velocities:
.260 Rem 130 gr Berger VLD (SD = 0.266, BC = .552), MV = 2750 fps
.270 Win 140 gr Berger VLD (SD = 0.261, BC = .487), MV - 2900 fps

Velocity @ 650 yds: .260 Rem = 1801 fps, .270 Win = 1804 fps
Wind drift @ 650 yds for 10 mph cross wind: .260 Rem = 29.7"; .270 Win = 32"

Using bullets of the same type with the same SD, the bullet from the .260 Rem has the same velocity as and less wind drift than the bullet from the .270 Win at 650 yards. Not everybody shoots that far, but some people do, and your blanket statement didn't make any qualifiers about only being valid to 300 or 400 yards.

BTW - it's all still ballistic gack, but facts are facts.

hope no one eles ever want's one just leave me all your .264 bullets and i will dispose of properly

R R - Yep, Apples are apples & Oranges are oranges. I like apples & y'all like oranges.

BOTH ARE FRUIT !

It takes more work to 'swallow' oranges!

Jerry

I found the high sectional density and BC of the 140-grain Nosler Partition very handy last Sunday when shooting a whitetail buck at 30 yards with my custom 6.5x55.

Of course I had to click in some elevation, but even at that extended range the bullet exited. Otherwise the buck obviously wouldn't have died. Just love the magic ballistics of those .264" bullets!

Nice to see your not 'ashamed' of shooting game at rock throwing distances

EVERY deer I killed UNDER 50 yds was more exciting/satisfying, then those at extended distances.

Nice knowing a round has good reach if/when you need it, but often it is moot. That said, for game, I will choose the better sd/bc, assuming proper 'hunting' bullet construction.

Magic is as magic does.....and most 'tricks' can be pulled off by a good magician

So JB, give yourself a little credit! Using a 140 PT in 6.5x55 for a shot like yours, was a wise one, deadly yet not turning 'hamburgerizing' your venison upon impact! But you knew that!

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving all.

The given muzzle velocity of 3000 fps for a 130 grain 270 seems rather mild. However, the bottomline appears to be, don't waste your money on a .277 VLD!

JB..during this hunt,did you turn the engine off first,then shoot or after you nailed it and got out to fetch it...
30 yards..LOL,are you preparing for a TV spot?

30 is much more respectable than 730, 830 or 930 IMHO, says something about the hunter, skills as a hunter and as a sportsman

I recommend to those interesting in a good read, "A Sporting Chance" by Daniel Mannix, he exemplifies my point.

Interesting reading from both the "technical gack" perspective, and from the point of view of those who use the 6.5. As a fan of the 6.5x55, I don't have one, but have planned on several occasions to build one. But I can't seem to shake the idea that my 257 Roberts, with only .007 smaller bullet, will do anything I want done on deer out to any distance I can confidently shoot them. Now if I can get another 257 Bob, with a 1-8 twist and find some 130-135 grain bullets, maybe I can give the 6.5x55 a real run, with even less recoil!

Beside, if JB can use the 257 for deer at 400+ yards, I should be able to use it on Missouri whitetails at 100-200 yards(provided I put the bullet where it needs to be). But then again, maybe I will take the 1942 M-38 Swedish Mauser out next time and see if it really makes a difference. Still seems that where the bullet hits is more important than what bullet hits, assuming proper bullets to begin with.

MOST conventional hunting bullets will reach and take out vitals on deer w/ no problem at sane ranges.

No deer can survive a good 24 cal bullet or larger IMHO when placed well, (again 'hunting/game' bullets, not varmint bullets).

Even 22 cal w/good bullets do deer in fine at your 200 yds and under mark.

Shoot well, and everything else usually takes care of itself IME.

6.5 mm is my minimum for big game in British Columbia. I have a target rifle coming sometime,savage LRP, and it is chambered in 260 Rem. With a 130 AB, any BC animal is in trouble with a well placed shot, plus I'm hoping to be competitive on the 1000 yd range.

If any of us could have lived with an original Remington 600/660 in 6.5 Remington Magnum from the inception of our hunting career to the end of it, oh the stories we could tell.

A 130 had killed a plethora of game for Jack O'connor and his fans, as well as the 130 AB will IME from a 264-08

A 6.5 RM is a good one, short carbine perhaps not allowing it's full potential, none the less, it was/is a formidable hunting round/package. Not much a well loaded RM cannot do for NA game.

+1

I shot this cull buck earlier this fall with a 6.5mm Rem Mag and a 130 gr AB at 3050 fps. The buck dropped in his tracks with a high shoulder shot.

JD338

Nice rifle and buck. 3-10 M1s?