|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 454
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 454 |
I owned one of the left handed models. Accuracy was not the problem. And I don't only buy a rifle because it is accurate. I want several other nice features in a rifle. And that was where the CZ failed. I really didn't put the rifle through any accuracy tests because I was disappointed in the other features of the rifle.
The rifle came with a decent piece of wood for an inexpensive rifle. I give kuddos for that.
I will tell you the problems my rifle had. Even though I will probably get flamed for saying.
First was the trigger. It was absolutley one of the worst factory triggers I have ever seen on a rifle. It was as bad as the old Savage 110-E's.
Second was the metal work. All the edges on the rifle were sharp, and rough cut. With metal shavings in open sight. Metal finsih was very poor(not bluing).
The largest problem I had with the rifle was the action. It almost took two hands to work the bolt. The action was extremely rough. Bolt lift was terrible, and the bolt simply did not slide. It had to be pulled along. IMO this was due to the poor machining work.
My problems were with the construction of the rifle. So after I noticed these problems it didn't matter how well it shot, I had no further interest in the rifle.
I did buy an additional CZ in 204 Ruger(left handed). That rifle had similar problems, although not as bad. But the 204 did shoot very well. It had a set trigger that was also horrendous.
Five or six years ago the CZ rifles were pretty cheap to buy. And you could overlook some of these problems because the price was so low. However in today's markets the price has risen considerably. And now those other problems can't be overlooked for the higher prices CZ is now asking. Tom.
That is unfortunate about your CZ's Hogghead. CZ USA has excellant costumer service for concerns such as yours.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
Nice try Jim. And have a very nice evening. Tom. Hoggbreath- Believe me, you dumb Hillbilly , the moderator of this forum COULD CARE LESS how many times folks call you a cretin. You have less pull pull here than Lindsey Lohan. And about the same amount of rifle knowledge.
Last edited by jim62; 11/17/11.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
I owned one of the left handed models. Accuracy was not the problem. And I don't only buy a rifle because it is accurate. I want several other nice features in a rifle. And that was where the CZ failed. I really didn't put the rifle through any accuracy tests because I was disappointed in the other features of the rifle.
The rifle came with a decent piece of wood for an inexpensive rifle. I give kuddos for that.
I will tell you the problems my rifle had. Even though I will probably get flamed for saying.
First was the trigger. It was absolutley one of the worst factory triggers I have ever seen on a rifle. It was as bad as the old Savage 110-E's.
Second was the metal work. All the edges on the rifle were sharp, and rough cut. With metal shavings in open sight. Metal finsih was very poor(not bluing).
The largest problem I had with the rifle was the action. It almost took two hands to work the bolt. The action was extremely rough. Bolt lift was terrible, and the bolt simply did not slide. It had to be pulled along. IMO this was due to the poor machining work.
My problems were with the construction of the rifle. So after I noticed these problems it didn't matter how well it shot, I had no further interest in the rifle.
I did buy an additional CZ in 204 Ruger(left handed). That rifle had similar problems, although not as bad. But the 204 did shoot very well. It had a set trigger that was also horrendous.
Five or six years ago the CZ rifles were pretty cheap to buy. And you could overlook some of these problems because the price was so low. However in today's markets the price has risen considerably. And now those other problems can't be overlooked for the higher prices CZ is now asking. Tom.
That is unfortunate about your CZ's Hogghead. CZ USA has excellant costumer service for concerns such as yours. He has never even owned a m452. He handled one once in a gunshop and came to those conclusions. His admitting he has never fired one is your first clue.
Last edited by jim62; 11/17/11.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,047
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,047 |
Jim I will say a prayer for your soul tonight before I go to sleep. For certainly there is a reason for a person to have so much hatred in his heart.
I have argued with you in the past. And now I realize that was a mistake. You have a troubled heart, and for that I am truly sorry. Maybe a few prayers may help you out a bit. I certainly hope so. I will do my best. Good luck to you. Tom.
West By God Virginia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
Jim I will say a prayer for your soul tonight before I go to sleep. For certainly there is a reason for a person to have so much hatred in his heart.
I have argued with you in the past. And now I realize that was a mistake. You have a troubled heart, and for that I am truly sorry. Maybe a few prayers may help you out a bit. I certainly hope so. I will do my best. Good luck to you. Tom.
No trouble here.  I just hate lying douche bags like you who misrepresent the work of fine gunmakers like CZ .. You would not know a good rifle if it smacked up side your dumb hillbilly head. So stick your "prayers" up your azz. Better yet, say MANY for yourself. Because ANYONE as stupid as you are needs ALL the help they can get. 
Last edited by jim62; 11/17/11.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,034 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,034 Likes: 6 |
HOGGHEAD: I simply have to ask you (and this is NOT a flame!) how come you bought the CZ Rifle in the first place with all those obvious faults?
Maybe you bought it through the mail somehow?
Anyway I have not noticed any of the attributes you mention on the CZ's my friends own and are so proud of them, that they make me shoot them.
THE, main reason I do not own a CZ is becuase I can not get a handle on their bassackwards safeties!
And reason number two is their hangdown magazines.
If they would correct these two deficiencies I would own at least two of them.
Virtually all of my friends who have rimfire CZ's have had trigger jobs done on them and a couple have bought the CZ's with set triggers - I have shot both types and again the triggers are rather nice and conducive to good field accuracy.
"Accuracy", IS, the main reason I KEEP a Rifle!
If a Rifle won't shoot I don't want it no matter how well it is fitted and finished!
I guess differing views and opinions is what makes the world go round?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,047
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,047 |
HOGGHEAD: I simply have to ask you (and this is NOT a flame!) how come you bought the CZ Rifle in the first place with all those obvious faults?
VarmintGuy When I bought the first CZ(the 22 LR) there were none available in the small gun shops in my neighborhood. Especially the smaller ones we have here in WV. Plus the rifle was a left handed rifle. And no one around stocks any left handed 22 rifles in my area. I bought the rifle as a special order from a small dealer in my area. The fellow does not even stock rifles. He only handles the paper work and does special orders. And on a special order, what you order belongs to you, you pay in full in advance. When I resold the rifle I actually sold it to the fellow who runs the shop. He wanted to use it as a squirrel rifle, which is what I bought it for originally. I am not the first person who has discussed the rough machinig on the CZ's. Nor am I the first one who has talked about how rough the actions are. I am on a couple of the varmint hunting forums, and I have heard my comments several times on those forums(from others). And what was wrong with my trigger comment?? I have been told the triggers are easy to work on. However I am not a mechanical person so I do not try to work on triggers. I really don't believe I flamed the rifles very bad. I did shoot the 22 rifle about 75 to 100 shots before I decided to sell it. And I probbably would have given the rifle some more time, but I ran into another good deal. And the accuracy was more than acceptable with the small amount of shooting I did with it. Thank you for not flaming. It just seems you can't have a conversation with some people without making things personal. And that really is a shame-but it is life. Also if you read my first post closely I also said that even with a few problems the rifle was still a good price point. It was not until after CZ took the large price increases that I personally felt the rifles had become over priced. And actually the wood on the 22 LR was pretty nice. The wood on the 204 was just a nice piece of straight grained Walnut. Below is a picture of the 204 I had. I did not takea picture of the 22 LR I had. However I basically feel no need to prove anything to others(not you) members as to what I did or did not buy. When I sold the 204 to a fellow on another forum I told him what I didn't like about the rifle. And the worst part really was the horrendous set trigger. He said he could fix the problems very easily(I couldn't). I also told him how well the 204 shot. I actually shot a couple of 2" groups at 300 yards with the 204(very good for a standard weight rifle). He has contacted me since and thanked me for selling him a rifle that shot so well. The bottom line of what I was trying to say was that the CZ wa a decent rifle for the price---before they had the drastic price increases they have had in the last few years. Can someone argue with those drastic price increases?? Really?? Tom. ![[Linked Image]](http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/HEAD0001/2-4-10006.jpg)
Last edited by HOGGHEAD; 11/17/11.
West By God Virginia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
Bottom line is rifles ARE mechanisms.
If you are too stupid to properly lubricate the bolt ,adjust a few screws, and then break in the rifle by SHOOTING IT, perhaps you should not even own firearms.
You made claims NOBODY whom I have ever known has said about CZs. Your "worst trigger ever" comment is horseschit on it's face.
Your claim about not being able to work the bolt is a sad little exaggeration. And your cosmetics claims are sad considering the fact the left hand CZs m452s are $300 to $400 rifles with checkered walnut stocks.
The fact of the matter is you made a bunch of baseless accusations in that chickenschit first post of yours that were very unfair to some VERY good rifles.
As to to the price increases- guess WHAT dummy?- The Czech Republic has inflation as well! Have you checked out the price of other European made rifles compared to 5 years ago? Sakos have gone up 75% in that last 5 years and recently they made a batch that BLEW UP. How's that for "value"?
Yeah, that's right Hillbilly- the Czech republic IS in Europe! The US dollar has not been exactly strong against the Euro during that time .
Besides, CZ -USA needs the extra profit margin to subsidize their customer service department so they can hand hold morons like you who cannot operate bolt on their rifle.
Last edited by jim62; 11/18/11.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,047
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,047 |
You are a sad little man. I will say a prayer for you. Tom.
West By God Virginia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
I am sad little man. Say a prayer for me. Tom. Fixed that for you, dingbat. In the meantime, MILLIONS of astute riflemen continue to be content with their CZ m452 rifles. And you will have never even fired one.
Last edited by jim62; 11/18/11.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,370
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,370 |
Bottom line is rifles ARE mechanisms.
If you are too stupid to properly lubricate the bolt ,adjust a few screws, and then break in the rifle by SHOOTING IT, perhaps you should not even own firearms.
You made claims NOBODY whom I have ever known has said about CZs. Your "worst trigger ever" comment is horseschit on it's face.
I don't know Jim... I picked this new 452 up last night from my ffl guy & the trigger has no creep...more of a hop/skip/jump... Same as the 455 I bought. I had already planned on getting a Rifle Basix trigger for it though so it's not unexpected. The "free floated barrel" is touching the stock on the right hand side, but that wasn't unanticipated either...as well as the rough cycling of the bolt...no biggie here though. A little judicious polishing of the bolt along with other minor tweaks & there's no doubt in my mind that my squirrel hunting buddies are gonna be more than a little envious of this little mach 2...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,730
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,730 |
Here's my response. First, it's a bolt action. The lock up is tighter than other action types so, if they aren't damaged, bolt actions will perform better.
Euro rifles shoot better than North American made.
Most posters have not fired more than three or four types of ammunition through their rifles. As a result, they really cannot comment on how well or how poorly ANY rifle will perform.
WRT CZs, I have owned two - the American and the Varmint. The American shot better than the Varmint. I tried twelve different loads in both. I mounted the same 6x24 Bushnell on both.
I have shot a Lakefield 64 bolt action, a Henry pump, a Marlin Model 60, a Marlin 39, a Rem 597, a Savage Mk II and semi-auto 64, a Ruger 10-22, and several Russian made 22s. The Russian and Lakefield rifles shot the best. The Ruger 10-22 and Remington 597 shot the worst.
I tried over 20 different 22 brands and types in the various rifles I've shot.
You know what? Ask to borrow someone's CZ, but bring your own ammunition. The biggest problem with opinions is that everybody has one, but none of them are right. None are worth the powder to blow them to hell.
In the end, whatever you observe is the best.
---
I know that you want judgments of what others have found. Unfortunately, there are too many rifles and ammunition types for anyone to render a balanced opinion. No one - myself included - has tried a large enough sampling.
You must be a range whore and ask about every rifle you see.
Bonne chance.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,094
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,094 |
Does anyone own one that doesn't shoot gerbil pellets in to .5" at 50 yards in a tornado?  First off, that there is funny.  I bought one last year IIRC. Just wanted an accurate 22 and that is what I got. Wood is nice but average, metal work is all fine - nothing like hoggshead described. It groups very well at 50 and 100 yards and at 25 it is all the same hole. Nice rifle! I too found the trigger a little stiff for my liking and also installed a yohdave trigger kit. Love the trigger now. As Steve mentioned mine too behaves differently with different ammo - more so than any other rifle I own. I have several 22's but this is the only one that wanders with different ammo. It is all accurate but the elevation changes between the four different brands I tried. Due to this I just buy the one that shot the best so that the scope setting does no have to change. I can't speak for others but mine has certainly been a pleasant experience.
Last edited by Westcoaster; 11/19/11. Reason: add info
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400 |
The two I have (1 american and 1 varmint) both shoot lights out. As in one hole out to 50 yards. Great guns for sure.
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,816 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,816 Likes: 1 |
mine will do head shots on chipmonks and sage rats out to 125 yds all day long... that is why I have a 6 x 24 scope on it, as it can actually take advantage of that extra magnification...
mine is a basic Trainer Model, bought for $199.00 brand new..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,901
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,901 |
Jim I will say a prayer for your soul tonight before I go to sleep. For certainly there is a reason for a person to have so much hatred in his heart.
I have argued with you in the past. And now I realize that was a mistake. You have a troubled heart, and for that I am truly sorry. Maybe a few prayers may help you out a bit. I certainly hope so. I will do my best. Good luck to you. Tom.
No trouble here. I just hate lying douche bags like you who misrepresent the work of fine gunmakers like CZ .. You would not know a good rifle if it smacked up side your dumb hillbilly head. So stick your "prayers" up your azz. Better yet, say MANY for yourself. Because ANYONE as stupid as you are needs ALL the help they can get. ********************************************************* Like many of you, I read this "pissin' match" between these two posters with a mixture of disgust and sadness. Like many of you, I really don't know who is "right" and who is "wrong"... but the "personal attack" makes me wonder WHY a poster can't post his honest feelings or experiences without fear of being called a "liar"... or an "idiot"... or "stupid"... and other equally disgusting, nasty names. When a man's feelings, opinions or experiences are being made public, he shouldn't have to endure PERSONAL ATTACKS in order to post his honest feelings or experiences. On the other hand, it is everyone's right to disagree with said POSTS, but in disagreeing, this does NOT give another poster "license" to insult or verbally abuse the original poster. It's this kind of "verbal terrorism" that causes many more shy members here to hesitate or even REFUSE to post information or one's own personal thoughts or opinions... which is a shame.  Jus' my 2�... Strength & Honor... Ron T.
It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 555
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 555 |
I bought a cz 452 scout 4 years ago and i do not have one complaint about it!!!! I did a poor mans trigger job on it, a piece of feeler gauge to take out the very little creep it had, the barrel was free floated, I must say this gun shoots better than any gun i have ever owned, Savage, Mosberg, Marlin, Ruger
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,727
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,727 |
Mine was bought off the used rack about 10 years ago. It is the Silhouette model.
Absolutely the best shooting .22 I've owned, next to an old Anschutz I had 30 years ago.
It actually groups the Stingers into 1/2" at 50yds.
My trigger was crap out of the box. When I went to adjust, the nut cracked clean in half. I shot it that way and it is great. CZ sent me a new nut free of charge, it's still in a drawer somewhere.
2 faults, after about 3 years I went to pick up the rifle and the sunlight hit the barrel just right. OH MY GOD! MY BARREL IS BULGED!
Not, it is a flaw in the exterior machining of the barrel, about 8" back from the muzzle. It looks like the cutter was changed mid-cut and not perfectly aligned.
The second, I took it out of the safe a few months ago and the recoil pad is falling apart.
Oh well, still my bestest .22lr.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,727
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,727 |
BTW, jim 62, re; the hillbilly cracks............
FOAD
Last edited by TERRY8mm; 11/25/11.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109 |
George Associate Gypsy Order of Sleepless Knights ... That is when I carried you ...
|
|
|
|
|
326 members (219 Wasp, 17CalFan, 257robertsimp, 1_deuce, 204guy, 46 invisible),
2,536
guests, and
1,215
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,239
Posts18,485,851
Members73,966
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
