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Originally Posted by Steve_NO
what? you think it's less of a crock of schit when you print out the whole thing?

the fact that you like it saves most the trouble of having to wade through Frum's nonsense to conclude it's just leftie agitprop. he has been reliably wrong about just about any topic you can name for many many years.

he wants a liberal party is really upset the Republicans don't want to be one for him.


I printed it out, because a number of people on 24 hr campfire don't click on links.

I'm not sure where you got the notion I liked it, unless you are making that part up.

How long is "many, many years"? 1 year? 3 years? What was the kiss of death for you on Frum? what statement or decision that he made that let you know he wasn't in tune with your vision of the world? What year was that?

Sycamore


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Frum lost me when he decided that there was more media popularity to be had by being their favorite whore who would crap on his former "allies"....if he was ever really a republican in any sense.

when commie homos like Frank Rich are praising your books as really really smart....it's a good sign you're writing bullshit, and that was the case with Frum at least as far back as 1994.

you're welcome to him, sycamore. he's your kind of conservative.


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The only difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is who gets to control the spending. Both parties answer to their masters, the IFC (international financial cartel).

I'm studying the tax code right to prepare for the upcoming tax season. What a mess. The tax code is not designed to collect revenue, it's designed for social engineering, social justice, and control and power. Both parties are the problem.

A real, true conservative is a anti-nationalist and the only presidential candidate that comes close to being a conservative is Ron Paul. But don't worry, the IFC will make sure Paul never sees the inside of the White House.


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okay, okay I see it coming, the term conservative is desired by the moderates, makes sense I guess since the socialists co-opted the term Democrat or liberal.


they can have the moniker I suppose, but there's still a bunch of us "old fashioned" Americans that believe in the Constitution and that it guarantees us the "pursuit of happiness", not the result of happiness from the sweat of our neighbors brow.

it's turned into a big freakin word game, but the truth of the matter is.....politicians suck


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Originally Posted by Steve_NO
Frum lost me when he decided that there was more media popularity to be had by being their favorite whore who would crap on his former "allies"....if he was ever really a republican in any sense.

when commie homos like Frank Rich are praising your books as really really smart....it's a good sign you're writing bullshit, and that was the case with Frum at least as far back as 1994.

you're welcome to him, sycamore. he's your kind of conservative.


Wow! You had him spotted as far back as 1994! Your prescience is amazing! If only you could have tipped off some of the lesser lights of the Conservative Movement (lesser than yourself of course) like WSJ, National Review, and 43 Bush.

From Frum's wiki bio:

Quote


After graduating from Harvard, Frum returned to Toronto to serve as an associate editor of Saturday Night.[9] He was an editorial page editor of the Wall Street Journal from 1989 until 1992, and then a columnist for Forbes magazine in 1992-94. During his tenure at the Journal, Frum "accepted the freelance assignment that would make his name: a 1991 cover story for The American Spectator attacking Pat Buchanan."[9] From 1994 through 2000 he was a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. During the 1990s he attended "three or four" Bilderberg Group meetings as a guest of Conrad Black.[10]

Following the election of George W. Bush in 2000, Frum was appointed to a position within the White House. Frum would later write that when he was first offered the job by chief Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson,
� I believed I was unsuited to the job he was offering me. I had no connection to the Bush campaign or the Bush family. I had no experience in government and little of political campaigns. I had not written a speech for anyone other than myself. And I had been only a moderately enthusiastic supporter of George W. Bush � I strongly doubted he was the right man for the job.[11] �

Still a Canadian citizen, he was one of the few foreign nationals working within the Bush White House. He had filed for naturalization and took the oath of citizenship on September 11, 2007.[12] Frum served as Special Assistant to the President for Economic Speechwriting from January 2001 to February 2002. He is credited with inventing the expression �axis of evil� Bush introduced in his 2002 State of the Union address, since Frum's wife, Danielle Crittenden, bragged about it in e-mails that were picked up by the media.[13] Frum shortly afterwards resigned from his position. Both he and the White House denied any connection to the incidence.[14] He later explained, that he used the term �axis of hatred�, referring to terrorist groups and extremist governments, in the first draft of the speech and the phrase was changed to �axis of evil.�[12]

While serving in the Bush White House, Frum was "one of the most vociferous voices . . . calling for war in Iraq," and "wrote in 2003 about the Iraqis 'welcoming their liberators.'"[15]

Frum strongly supported John Roberts, George W. Bush's nominee for Chief Justice of the United States. However, like many conservatives, he opposed the nomination of Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court of the United States, on the grounds that she was insufficiently qualified for the post, as well as insufficiently conservative.

On October 11, 2007, Frum announced on his blog that he was joining Rudolph Giuliani's presidential campaign as a senior foreign policy adviser.[16][17]

Frum was a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, from 2003 until March 25, 2010, when his paid position was terminated and he declined to accept the offer of a non-paying position.[18][19] Media reports noted that the termination came three days after Frum's strongly worded criticism of the Republican strategy on health care reform, but Frum said that the AEI had not cited his criticism as the reason for his termination.[18][20] It was also suggested that he was fired for criticizing Fox news, saying "Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we are discovering we work for Fox.�[21]
[edit] NewMajority.com and FrumForum.com

On November 16, 2008, The New York Times reported that Frum would be leaving National Review where he was a contributing editor and run an online blog.[22] Frum announced to readers of his blog that he would be starting a new political website, NewMajority.com, describing it as "a group blog, featuring many different voices. Not all of them� conservatives or Republicans." He added that he hoped the site would "create an online community that will be exciting and appealing to younger readers, a generation often repelled by today's mainstream conservatism."[23] The website was launched on January 19, 2009,[24] on October 31, 2009, it changed to FrumForum.com.
[edit] Writings

Frum's first book, Dead Right, was released in 1994. It "expressed intense dissatisfaction with supply-siders, evangelicals, and nearly all Republican politicians."[11] Frank Rich of the New York Times described it as "the smartest book written from the inside about the American conservative movement," William F. Buckley, Jr. found it "the most refreshing ideological experience in a generation,"[25] and Daniel McCarthy of The American Conservative called it "a crisply written indictment of everything its author disliked about conservatism in the early �90s."[9] He is also the author of What's Right (1996) and How We Got Here (2000), a history of the 1970s, which "framed the 1970s in the shadow of World War II and Vietnam, suggesting, 'The turmoil of the 1970s should be understood ... as the rebellion of an unmilitary people against institutions and laws formed by a century of war and the preparation for war.'"[9] Michael Barone of U.S. News & World Report praised How We Got Here, noting that "more than any other book� it shows how we came to be the way we are." John Podhoretz described it as "compulsively readable" and a "commanding amalgam of history, sociology and polemic."[26]

In January 2003, he released The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush, the first insider account of the Bush presidency. As the title suggests, Frum also discusses how the events of September 11, 2001 redefined the country and the President. Frum writes, "George W. Bush was hardly the obvious man for the job. But by a very strange fate, he turned out to be, of all unlikely things, the right man."

Frum's book An End to Evil was co-written with Richard Perle. It provided a defense of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and advocated regime change in Iran and Syria. Furthermore, it called for a tougher policy with North Korea, as well as advocating a tougher U.S. stance against Saudi Arabia and other Islamic nations in order to "win the war on terror" (from the book's subtitle).

In 2008, he published Comeback: Conservatism That Can Win Again, a work which garnered "lavish praise from his friends."[9] Former Congressman David M. McIntosh called "required reading for all GOP candidates."


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Originally Posted by Sycamore
Originally Posted by Steve_NO
what? you think it's less of a crock of schit when you print out the whole thing?

the fact that you like it saves most the trouble of having to wade through Frum's nonsense to conclude it's just leftie agitprop. he has been reliably wrong about just about any topic you can name for many many years.

he wants a liberal party is really upset the Republicans don't want to be one for him.


I printed it out, because a number of people on 24 hr campfire don't click on links.

I'm not sure where you got the notion I liked it, unless you are making that part up.

How long is "many, many years"? 1 year? 3 years? What was the kiss of death for you on Frum? what statement or decision that he made that let you know he wasn't in tune with your vision of the world? What year was that?

Sycamore

smile
Glad ya printed it out. Whats funny is the truth in that article slapped Steve_No in the face so bad he couldn't ramble on and on with his usually brilliant bullschit.


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Quote
but is simply worthless tripe


You besmirch, slander and libel tripe when you say that.

Liberal talk may be "drivel" but it does not rise to the level of tripe.

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Frum, like George Will is no Conservative and by his writings proves it. He has like, Juan Williams, a turned coat. Let him be what he is; a Liberal who will vote for BHO.

And Syc is in sync with both.


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Originally Posted by Spanokopitas

Frum, like George Will is no Conservative and by his writings proves it. He has like, Juan Williams, a turned coat. Let him be what he is; a Liberal who will vote for BHO.

And Syc is in sync with both.


You lost me there, Spanky. You mentioned four other individuals, and stated that I was in sync with both. Subject/Object disagreement. Your people need to get you a new editor!

I do think the interesting discussions are what does it mean to be a Republican, or a Democrat. And also, is it more important to support the country, or the party? And can one support the country without supporting the party, or is there only one way, through the party?

Brings to mind the book "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer, I think.

Party politics (IMO) are responsible for a lot of the waste, fraud, abuse and mis-direction in our country today.

I don't hold it against dumb people when they don't know it, or recognize it, or see it.

When smart people claim to not see it, or think it only runs one way, it makes me wonder if they have deceived themselves, or if they may be trying to deceive me or others.

Watching sports is unfortunate analogue for our current situation, it fosters the spirit of my team (party) right or wrong. No one stops to think about the league or the conference (nation).

Sycamore



Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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The arcticle in it's entirety is very interesting. Not the political views. As a character study into the mind of someone that's very intelligent and knowlegeable but has lost touch with reality.

There are flashes of brilliance and deep insight into the workings of politics in America. There are points that he makes that I wholeheartly agree with but in the end the majority of his conclusions are absurd.

The guy's mind is like a ping-pong ball in clothes dryer. He bounces from one extreme to the other, picks up a few dings and dents along the way and in the end his ball/mind is mangled.

This quote sums it all up.

"It�s possible that my friends are right. I don�t think so�but then, crazy people never do."

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Originally Posted by Bushmaster1313
Quote
but is simply worthless tripe


You besmirch, slander and libel tripe when you say that.

Liberal talk may be "drivel" but it does not rise to the level of tripe.


LOL it doesn't even rise to the level of [bleep]!


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The Frum piece is a very well written opinion piece, nevertheless just that, an opinion piece. Like with many other Liberal opinion pieces I do not agree.

He could have used Liberal examples to support a rant against Conservatives and come closer to the truth. Since he has burned his Conservative bridges, like Williams burned his Liberal bridges, he is now looking for a gig on the Liberal side. Turncoats both, I have no respect for either.

I doubt he will land as lucrative gig as did Williams.

Sycamore---Sorry about the minor grammatical infelicities in my last post, you were right to call me on them. Being a publisher I always attempt to present clean copy. Please be assured that I am not in charge of Copy Editing at Paradise Cay Publications, we have professionals and if you read any of our books I believe you would conclude that our editing is superb.---Spano.

Last edited by Spanokopitas; 11/27/11.

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My opinion is that all the politicians have lost touch with reality. Both parties of them. I used to be a registered Republican. I am now a registered 'no party affiliation'. That doesn't, of course, mean that I am not 'conservative'. It simply means that the Republican party no longer represents my value (small government, small spending, and freedoms for all). They are closer to it than the Democrats, but not close enough to earn my support, or respect. I am not alone in this, either. There is a reason why the second largest block of voters in Arizona is 'no party affiliation'. Republicans are first (but maybe not for long). Democrats are third.

We need a party that fights for a return to the Constitution. Them I could join.

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excellent post Chromescholar!


it's better explains my "sucks less" mantra


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Originally Posted by Chromescholar
...the politicians have lost touch with reality...the Republican party no longer represents my value (small government, small spending, and freedoms for all). They are closer to it than the Democrats, but not close enough to earn my support, or respect...
We need a party that fights for a return to the Constitution. Them I could join.


This. It's called the T-party.


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T-party.


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“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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The Tea Party is not a party. They are a group of people who are trying to force the GOP to do what they want. It is a lost cause. When they register as a political party, I will consider them.

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Excellent read. Thanks for posting.


Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
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Originally Posted by 17ACKLEYBEE
Originally Posted by oruacat2
One helluva good read from David Frum. No doubt it won't be received well by this group, but it needs to be said.

The section on FoxNews and the conservative media is especially damning and dead-on accurate:

Extremism and conflict make for bad politics but great TV. Over the past two decades, conservatism has evolved from a political philosophy into a market segment. An industry has grown up to serve that segment and its stars have become the true thought leaders of the conservative world. The business model of the conservative media is built on two elements: provoking the audience into a fever of indignation (to keep them watching) and fomenting mistrust of all other information sources (so that they never change the channel). As a commercial proposition, this model has worked brilliantly in the Obama era. As journalism, not so much. As a tool of political mobilization, it backfires, by inciting followers to the point at which they force leaders into confrontations where everybody loses, like the summertime showdown over the debt ceiling.

But the thought leaders on talk radio and Fox do more than shape opinion. Backed by their own wing of the book-publishing industry and supported by think tanks that increasingly function as public-relations agencies, conservatives have built a whole alternative knowledge system, with its own facts, its own history, its own laws of economics. Outside this alternative reality, the United States is a country dominated by a strong Christian religiosity. Within it, Christians are a persecuted minority. Outside the system, President Obama whatever his policy errors is a figure of imposing intellect and dignity. Within the system, he�s a pitiful nothing, unable to speak without a teleprompter, an affirmative-action phony doomed to inevitable defeat. Outside the system, social scientists worry that the U.S. is hardening into one of the most rigid class societies in the Western world, in which the children of the poor have less chance of escape than in France, Germany, or even England. Inside the system, the U.S. remains (to borrow the words of Senator Marco Rubio) the only place in the world where it doesn�t matter who your parents were or where you came from.

We used to say "You�re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts." Now we are all entitled to our own facts, and conservative media use this right to immerse their audience in a total environment of pseudo-facts and pretend information
.


Another piece of [bleep] floats in from blue grass country (as in blue state) LOL get a life loser.


And another impressive rebuttal from a knuckle dragging Cretin, proving Frum's thesis in spades!


Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
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