Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 6.8 vs. 7.62x39 vs ???

The 6.8is about 200+ FPS faster than a 30-30


Manufacturer: Silver State Armory

Manufacturer Part No: SSA10072-110BARNES-TAC


Ballistic Coefficient: 0.323

Muzzle Velocity (fps): 2650

Muzzle Energy (ft-lb): 1717

100 Yards (inches): 2.9

200 Yards (inches): 0.0

300 Yards (inches): -9.6

Well not exactly, a 110gr bullet in the 6.8 @ 2650 isn't a fair comparison but let's look at a 125gr NBT at 2350fps only out of a 14" contender for the 30-30.

Like bullet weights and barrel lengths and there ain't a nickles difference. Seems like I've said that before...

liKE BULLET WIEGHTS? They aren't like cailbers so no let's not use a 125 grain and if you insist then I'll drop down to a lighter bullet in the 5.8 tht goes 3000 FPS

My point was let's use same weight bullets in both...

Saying the 110 gr bullet goes faster than a 150gr bullet is obvious? The 6.8 has nothing on either the 7.62x39 or the 30-30 except a good dose of advertising and those who want to believe.

Have you used one? I didn't think much of the 6.8 until I started using one. The same bullet weight in different calibers for comparison is apples to oranges.

I've used a 30-30 quite a bit as a kid and of course it did it's job. Never busted a 6.8 cap but I do have a buddy with one and he's not that impressed with it. I've no doubt it'll kill deer and pigs just like the 30-30 and there's nothing wrong with that but it's not a giant killer, it does however fit in an AR-15 magazine and that is a giant plus.

You made the comparison here "The 6.8is about 200+ FPS faster than a 30-30" with a 110gr bullet vs a 150? Talk about apples and oranges.

The 6.8 was designed around a 110/115 grain bullet the 30/30 was designed around 150/170 grain bullets I'd call that Apples to apples, but in you want to drop a wieght in the 30/30 in order to compare velocities then it is only fair toalso drop weight in the 6.8

Don't know what loads your buddy is shooting in his 6.8, but the size of wounds channels that I have havebeen impressive. The 30/30 will also create impressive wound damage even thou it is 200+ FPS slower than the 6.8

Hornady Leverlution ammo 140 gr 2465fps

1889 muzzle energy 850 @ 300 yards

+3" 100 yards -12.40" @300 yards

Not a nickles difference...

Todd at Noveske seems to think the 6.8 for hunting is a good deal more than the .223. Personally to me the trade off is just not there yet, but of course as all things firearm related it interests me. I am just not convinced that the difference is as real to the animal as it is in our minds. We humans "perceive" that if lung tissue is blown out the other side that the gun is far deadlier than the deer that dies in the same manner while producing a modest blood trail and that runs about the same distance when shot with a 5.56. I have no worries shooting an animal with my crossbow with a good broad head, it kills them just as well, so put me down as a bit skeptical but not closed on the 6.8 subject.

I was sceptical at first, but wanted to try one frist hand. I am glad that I did because I realy like mine

Anyone that thinks a 7.62x39 has the same performance as a 6.8spc, with same barrel length and bullet weight is smoking something.

We've been down this road before and the actual performance isn't even remotely close. Maybe at 50 yards, but that is like saying Bubba is just as strong as Mike Tyson......

at crushing a beer can in his eye socket after 10 beers.

About as close to an apples to apples comparison as you're going to get.

20%+- differences are pretty significant in the ballistics arena.

From the last time this silliness came up:

Interesting comment. Lets look at some load data for each.
Hornady #7.
110gr V-Max.
7.62x39 Max velocity=2600fps, 20 inch barrel.
6.8 SPC Max velocity=2600fps, 16 inch barrel.
Using Quickload and reducing the 20" x39 barrel to 16 inch we get 2516fps. Within 100fps.

Hornady #7
130gr SP
7.62x39 Max velocity=2400fps, 20 inch barrel.
6.8 SPC Max velocity=2300fps, 16 inch barrel.
Reducing the x39 barrel to 16 inches we get 2298fps, within 2fps.

Using a ballistic calculator, both rounds zeroed at 100 yards, 110gr V-Max.
100 yards.
7.62x39=0.00 inches, 2239fps, 1224fpe
6.8 SPC=0.00 inches, 2375fps, 1377fpe
200 yards.
7.62x39=-5.48 inches, 1977fps, 955fpe
6.8 SPC=-4.73 inches, 2161fps, 1141fpe

300 yards
7.62x39=-19.89 inches, 1735fps, 736fpe
6.8 SPC=-16.83 inches, 1959fps, 937fpe

130gr SP
100 yards
7.62x39=0.00 inches, 2039fps, 1015fpe
6.8 SPC=0.00 inches, 2110fps, 1087fpe

200 yards
7.62x39=-6.86 inches, 1795fps, 787fpe
6.8 SPC=-6.23 inches, 1928fps, 908fpe

300 yards
7.62x39=-24.75 inches, 1575fps, 606fpe
6.8 SPC=-21.96 inches, 1758fps, 755fpe.

Looks pretty close to me. 3 inch difference in drop at 300 yards, I would call that kinda close and I haven't smoked anything.

Your numbers are pure fantasy BS. I'd call it science fiction, but there's no science to what you threw out there.

Let's take this little nugget and rub the gold paint off of it...


There is no way in hell that a bullet, with a considerably lower BC, will only drop 10% less, traveling 13% slower.

You completely ignored BC and STILL came up 200fps shy.


Using the data you provided, but the actual BC for the 110gr .308 VMax, your drop is only off by oh...7 INCHES and your claimed FPS is off by 240 FPS.




Go find some actual tested data or better yet, actual factory data, as I provided, and we'll talk.

I did not ignore the BC. I used the BC listed in the Hornady manual.
.277, 110gr V-Max=.370
.308, 110gr V-Max=.275

.277, 130gr SP=.460
.308, 130gr SP=.295

I used Point Blank software and QuickTarget.

You are right about one thing, the Hornady data is more fiction that fact. A max load of AA 1680 (29.5gr) with 110gr bullet actually is closer to 2700fps out on an 18 inch barrel. My hunting load is 29.5gr 1680 with 110gr Barns TTSX, my test results are on par with Accurate Powders, just under 2700fps.


Steve,

We suggest the following.

Caliber: 7.62x39 Russian.

Barrel length: 18�

Powder: Accurate � 1680�.

Bullet weight: 110 grains.

Start load: 26.1 grains (ca 1325 Fps)

Maximum load: 29.5 grains (ca 2675 Fps) LD ca 100%.

NOTES:

It� important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.

1. ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM �START� LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.

2. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.

Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot.Accurate.Powders
WesternPowdersInc.Miles City.Montana.
www.ramshot.com
www.accuratepowder.com

www.montanaxtreme.com
www.blackhorn209.com

Reduce the 18 inch barrel to 16 inches and we get 2613fps.

110gr V-max.
200 yards
7.62x39=-4.98 inches 2060fps
6.6 SPC=-4.73 inches 2161fps

300 yards
7.62x39=-18.10 inches 1810fps
6.8 SPC=-16.83 inches 1959fps
a difference of 1.27 inches.

You are right, actual tested data is better, shows the 7.62 x39 is even closer to the 6.8 than I thought.
Thanks.

Advertisng and those who want to believe...

Please note that in all this "silliness" I never said the 6.8 was not a good round, even said it was a good fit for an AR-15 but it is not a giant killer. Does anyone else remember Ruger advertising the 7.62x39 in it's Mini 30 as a modern day 30-30?

Like I said, not a nickles difference.

Got a 30-30 load to match this one?


...............................................MV.......300Yd Vel
6.8 SPC 85gr Barnes TSX TACTICAL 0.246- 3000FPS- 1708FPS 2.3- 0.0-7.8




http://www.ssarmory.com/ballistics.aspx

the 85 and 95 grain TSX loads in the 6.8 are the ones that are interesting.

They have proven to be good killers on game. The Military has found the 6.8 to be extremely effective to 400 yards or so but beyound 400 to 1000 the 6.5 Grendal has been more effective

I guess in some people's worlds, 20% differences aren't worth a nickel. I'm sure you would be fine with a 20% pay cut or a 20% increase on your mortgage.

You claimed:



That claim is pure garbage. If we're going to debate cartridges and ballistics, there has to be some intellectual honesty.

To claim a 25.9" drop at 300 yards is no different than a 17.9" drop at 300 yards or a 7.9" drop at 200 yards is "same same" as a 4.9" drop at 200 yards, defies common sense.

You go hold on a buck at 17.9" at 300 yards and when you see it hit 8" low in the dirt and the buck run off to the next county, you can tell us all about there being "no difference".