Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives Anyone here have a Duramax?

here's food for thought, and this comes right out of G.M. Powertrane:

* prior to the 2005 there were three majore redesigns of the Duramax. 2004 was when they finally got off the pieces of the puzzel put together right. I'd avoid the very late ones as they had to choke the motor down to meet the ECM specs handed down by the EPA. At 118K the motor is about 1/3 of it's life span assuming it was taken care of.

*****There were prototypes. The LB7 had redesign to the LLY in '04, then '06 had another. Each of the diesels have been improved, Dmax isn't unique in this. And choking the engine down is just BS. Power has always been comparable or greater than it's competitors. I've personally seen an LB7 with 873K miles and an LLY with 640K.......running very well.

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* If the truck is an automatic, then crawl under the truck with a flashlight and look at the S/N tag on the transmission. It's an Allison, or a copy of an Allison. But they are different. Look for the numbers "933" on the tag. If they are not there, it's a Baltamore built copy. They are not made to Allison specs, and the gears are not all that great (still better than a Ford). Some trucks have an Allison tag on the fender. Forget this as an identifier!! If it has a real Allison transmission, it should last longer than the engine if taken care of.

******Allison transmissions are made at the Allison plant. Nobody I know has ever heard of copies or substandard parts in one of these. And there are damn few gears. A good person to check with on that would be Mike at Inglewood Transmission in So. Calif.
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Early Duramax deisels lasted about a week on the dyno, and usually suffered a catastropic block failure. The did a redesign of the block, and pretty much put that behind them. Then as power output grew; they started having problems with the head bolts pulling outta the block, and stretching almost a quarter inch. They did another redesign with bigger and better quality bolts with steel thread inserts. After that issue was solved the heads started to crack from the chamber pressures, and the heads were redesigned with more meat in certain areas. In the block redesign there was three phases, but only one hit the street. The blocks were actually blowing the complete bottom end out, and then some were splitting into two pieces. After that the bell housing flange was ripping off the blocks. (takes 70 hp. to drive the Allison gear box).

*******Headbolts pulling out? Those cylinders are so damn hard there's still plenty of crosshatch after 150K miles. Steel inserts? That's complete BS. I don't know what went on during prototype development of this engine, probably about what every engine goes through. But the production engines have been very reliable.

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Now Dodge is going to either use the Asian or a ZF transmission. The Asian is an AT542 built on license, and in many respects better than the LCT in the Chevy.

*********Aforementioned Mike at Inglewood Transmission builds Allisons for racing, knows them inside and out.....said the Aisin (not "Asian") is crap compared to the Allison.

Their first choice was the Cummins, but Chrysler is the sole owner of that design (Ford wants it too)
gary

actually your wrong. The Cummins with a strait stick is by a wide margin.

That's a Cummins design, been around long before Mopar ever thought about using it in a pickup truck. Chrysler owns none of Cummins. Ford owns something like 15%.

Ford owns ZERO percentage of Cummins.

That's a Cummins design, been around long before Mopar ever thought about using it in a pickup truck. Chrysler owns none of Cummins. Ford owns something like 15%.

This sounded real familiar. The same load of crap being thrown around several years ago by some guy on the diesel forum, called himself Lazarus69, claimed to work for Allison. He got pretty much run off one of the diesel forums. I still have emails.

Here's more "food for thought," some of the other stuff this clown was talking back in '05......

*Dmax soon to be replaced by a Cat 6cyl, built by Perkins (???!!)......didn't happen.

*Dmax had noise problems they couldn't fix.......yeah right, from the very start Dmax has been quieter than any of the others.

*GM couldn't get the Dmax to burn clean in all 50 states and some needed the power turned back 20%. More BS...... power has always been equal to or more than the others.

*Ford if anything will opt for a Cummins 6cyl.....sure! Since '05 Ford has had 3 different V8's, none of them by Cummins.

This guy is full of crap, a joke. Anyone wants to see those emails I'll be glad to forward them.

Actually,you're wrong. I just got out of a Cummins 5.9 with a the 6spd G56 manual. I initially went with the CTD and the manual,because they were rumored to be the most bulletproof.

Having had more than one Duramax/Allison combo,and the Dodge that you claim is better,I'll take the D/A combo every time.

[
That's a Cummins design, been around long before Mopar ever thought about using it in a pickup truck. Chrysler owns none of Cummins. Ford owns something like 15%.

perhaps you want to see a paycheck stub?

starting back down the line:

* the fact that G.M. is unhappy with the Duramax is well known in the development areas. They have been playing with a CAT 6 for several years, and the Perkins died on the vine due to ECM problems. Cat seems to have lost interest in the project, but there are a couple others knocking it around. It may yet happen. If it does it will use something different for fuel. Lastly did somebody ever give you a change over date? They usually run about five years out, and with your vast knowledge you probably know before Powertrane dose
*********Unhappy?.....they've sold a ton of these engines, one million by 2007. If they wanted a 6, Izuzu - one of the largest diesel suppliers in the world - has them. You were throwing this 6cyl crap around 6-1/2 yrs ago.
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* if you do a serious check you will find a noise waiver gived to them by the Fed. They did do a redesign of the bell housing in the second year to help the problem slightly. It's still there, and comes from the rear of the block maiting flange to the bell housing (both are at fault)
************When it was introduced, Dmax was by far the quitest diesel pickup truck. No contest. Noise there now? bullsh*t. Those things are so quiet they sound like a gas engine.
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* the Duramax never met the CARB specs in California. This is a well known fact, and why they did a "California Package"
***********The first LB7's had no emissions...when Calif went to strict emissions they put on smog control. Dodge and Ford were also using that stuff. The LLY's and later are 50state.
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* Ford has made two attempts to buy Cummins engines in the past and were turned away. But were told they could buy them directly from Chrysler (source: Elsie Lucas)
**********Good 'ol Elsie Lucas.

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I think the crap started with your rebuttal that has no base. My sources are right inside unlike yourself. I have seen Duramaxes a half dozen at a time with the block shattered.

********Did your "scources" also tell you about how the Cummins 53 block likes to break? There are literally dozens of 700+ rear wheel hp street driven Dmax's out there going 11's. I personally know 7 or 8 guys (including myself) with 800-1200rwhp dmax's that are street driven and raced, used for towing, some are also used for sled pulling, and block breakage is a non factor. Your little thing spiel about input shafts?.....Input shafts aren't a problem with the Allison. There are guys running 9's and 10's with built LB7's (the first Dmax) and built LB7 transmissions. Even drag racing at that high power level, those early input shafts don't break. Replacing the output with a billet shaft isn't considered until about 1000hp (rwhp) level.
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I worked that project, and have a vauge idea what was going on unlike you and the B.S. you spilling. At the sametime Mr. Lucas was a close family member, and everybody at Cummins worked for him. I will admit I'm not completely upto date on the half ton light duty project, but it was pretty much a go when I left. The AD project evolved into the LCT project, and the true LCT never was built due to a design / fit problem.

*********I don't give a crap about Mr. Lucas. And the 1/2ton was a go, then a stop...old news. So what.
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Now lastly (being as you are some smart), why don't you hunt up a 2004 thru 2006 duramax powered truck and crawl under it. Take a serious long look at the exhaust system. Now goto the dealer and look at a new one. See the difference?
************I'll do that, I'll hunt one up..........mine is a 2004, I've spent a bit of time under it. I've also changed the exhaust system twice......I'm familiar. Of course the new ones are different. They all are. It's about the switch to ULS fuel. YOU go look at what's under a Dodge.
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I made a living for 34 years developing heavyduty drive tranes for everybody from Mercedes to TACOM, and perhaps if you were in the industry you'd have a little bit of an idea what the crap your talking about. I don't know everything, but know a little more than you'll ever begin to know about the subject in the next two or three lifetimes.
***************Back in '05 you were claiming to work for Allision. Now you're saying GM PowerTRAIN....you don't even spell it correctly.
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It rather obvious that Mr. Ingelwood is in error here. The Asian is an Allison AT 542 built on license. Why is it crap? Probably because he knows little if anything about it.
*************It's Aisin, not Asian. Actually "Mr Inglewood" as you call him, builds beefed transmissions. Many of the fastest/most powerful race trucks use them. The Aisin is crap to him because it won't hold the power that an Allison will hold
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next time pick a subject you know something about cause your barking up the wrong tree here
***********You don't own one of these do you? And never have.....
gary

chesshircat,

I gotta question some of your claims, also. You say that Ford was turned away from using Cummins engines in their trucks. How so? They have been and currently are offering the same Cummins in their F650/F750 trucks.

As far as Chrysler having exclusive rights to the use of the Cummins 5.9l 12v, 24v, Commonrail, etc.... How do you explain the massive use of their engines in the Freightliner, Spartan, and other motorhome chassis? They aren't buying them from Chrysler.

Chrysler has exclusive rights to the Cummins engines in their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, which is why the Cummins engines, as you said, are available in the bigger Fords. If Ford was able to do so, I think they would have had them across the board in their trucks.

chesshircat,

I gotta question some of your claims, also. You say that Ford was turned away from using Cummins engines in their trucks. How so? They have been and currently are offering the same Cummins in their F650/F750 trucks.

As far as Chrysler having exclusive rights to the use of the Cummins 5.9l 12v, 24v, Commonrail, etc.... How do you explain the massive use of their engines in the Freightliner, Spartan, and other motorhome chassis? They aren't buying them from Chrysler.

dead wrong here. The originl six from back in the early 1990's was, but even then with many mods to it. Chrysler paid cash up front for the R&D, and even went so far as to buy the equipment to manufacture it. At the time Cummins needed the working capital, and signed an exclusive contract with Chrysler. Ford tried to buy the same engine more than once, and were turned away. The next generation was completely owned by Chrysler, and the following versions the same after that. Cummins did develope the motor, but trust me they didn't have a dime invested in it. Now Chrysler owns all the copyrights to it as well as the intellectual property rights. And before you ask who my source was; let me put it to you this, he was the head of all manufacturing and he only answered to the board of directors. That would be Mr. Lucas himself, and if you worked there you worked for him; no matter what plant you were in.
gary

As far as the design of the Cummins engines that Dodge uses, it wasn't a Chrysler designed engine. The Cummins 6BT (T is for turbo) was a collaborative effort between Cummins and Case (the tractor company).

They were in Case tractors a full 5 years before they were in Dodge trucks which began with the 1989 year model. Dodge originally chose the Cummins 6B version which was the non-turbo model.

These are your words and you are absolutely wrong. I have up the entire quote so nothing can be taken out of context. Cummins and Case did all the development on the 5.9 6BT, not Chrysler. Chrysler does not "own all the copyrights to it as well as the intellectual property rights." There is no reference to pickup trucks. You focusing on the entire research and development of the motor and it's offsprings.

Cummins did not get the working capital from Chrysler to help save their company. They got it from Ford, Tenneco, and Kubota to the tune of about $250 million.

the 5.9 Cummins has been put in all sorts of machinery all over the world , as mentioned many CaseIH tractors used it also CaseIH and even Massey combines

Ford started using IH(Navistar) V-8s in their pickups back in 1983 . Dodge didn't pick up the Cummins until 1988 or 1989....I'd wager Ford could have had the Cummins motors if they wanted , but for whatever reasons went with the V-8s .