Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is Reloader 17 slowing down?

RL-17 has it's place with certain cartridges/bullets and weights.The 375 H&H with 300 and 350 grain bullets comes to mind.

Jayco

MD, good post. I'm sometimes amazed at the velocities or gains some claim. I understand variation, but some of these are outrageous. I recently saw a claim of 3650 fps in a 7 SAUM with 120 grn bullets that was "safe". I punched the load into QL and it showed around 78,500 psi. I know QL is not exact, but I think it's at least a clue things are a little hot.

Some guys are always determined to turn a 308 Win into a 30-06, a 30-06 into a 300 WSM, a 300 WSM into a 300 WM, a 300 WM into a 300 RUM, and so on... it's a mystery for sure, but I think it's also true.

Somebody mentioned getting fantastic velocities with the 200-grain AccuBond in the .30-06. Alliant's data (as mentioned above) lists a maximum load producing 2552 fps



So, the above load requires 51gr of RL-17. The 06 has been around a long time, well since 06, and has been chambered in nearly every action type so far invented. In a modern action would 54grs for 2725fps be =/< 65,000 psi. And, does the rate of twist have an influence on dynamic resistance?

And there are people on this site that advocate a 200 grainer at 2,850 from a 24" 30-06...

And there are people like John Barsness that think 2800 fps out of a 24" barrel with a 200 grain pill is very doable.

Owe geez..Not this again.

Jayco

Is that with the lightweight bullets in the 25-284? I use RL22 with the 100 grainers but H4350 with the 75 V-Max. What speeds are you seeing? Thanks.

I ran out and bought 8 pounds of the stuff when it first came out. Mainly because it was curiously available, compared to other powders at that time. I tried it in most of my rifles in various calibers. I saw no magic and generally poor accuracy. What I did quickly notice is that Re 17 is apparently best in terms of accuracy at the maximum loads. This is not that different from what I have seen with most other powders I use.

It turn out to be the accuracy champ in my extremely finicky 7mm WSM with the 140 grain Barnes TTSX. It didn't do as well as Re 19 with 150s and 160s.

It also didn't do as well as most of my long established combinations for my other calibers and rifles. I recognize it's usefulness and don't expect more.

And I disagree with John on that one... and while I almost never disagree with John, I almost always disagree with you.

Actually, I never said 2800 was anything except perhaps possible, with some 200-grain bullets. It would depend on exactly the right powder as well, and perhaps even the lot of powder.

Lists 2688 fps for 200's in their manual with Reloder 22. This would be at the SAAMI maximum of 60,000 psi. If we up the pressure to 65,000 (SAAMI acceptable for certain cartridges in that class) the muzzle velocity would be somewhere in the 2750+ range.

Exactly how much velocity would increase isn't as easily computable with a double-based powder as it would be with a single-based powder, where velocity normally increases at the same rate as powder charge, with pressure increasing at twice the rate of velocity. With double-based powders everything isn't as predictable.

While the higher energy of double-based powders would probably be needed to get 2750+ at 65,000 from a 200-grain bullet in the .30-06, no double-based powder is quite as temperature resistant as the single-base Hodgdon Extremes. The Ramshot rifle powders are the most temp-resistant double-based powders I've worked with, but in with the exception of RL-15 the Reloder powders I've tested have been average. While it might be possible to get very close to 2800 with SOME 200-grain bullets in the .30-06 at 65,000 psi, my guess is that pressures would be a pretty touchy at warmer temperatures.

The other question, of course, is why bother? A .300 WSM or .338-06 will easily get 2800 out of 200-grain, without having to lean on it hard.

MD

What powder do you recommend trying with 200 grain NPT/AB in 300WSM?

I like H4831SC and usually shoots very well. It gets plenty of velocity, and doesn't lose that velocity in cold weather.

Actually you said:Personally I don't think 2800 with a 200-grain is out of line with a 24" barreled .30-06.

But then again who cares,I sure don't.I don't use the 200 grain in my '06 and if I thought I needed a 200 grain in .308,I would use my 300 Win Mag,but I don't,the 180 has done everything I have ever asked of it.

Jayco

H4831 has never not been deadly, perhaps even in spite of me.

The other question, of course, is why bother? A .300 WSM or .338-06 will easily get 2800 out of 200-grain, without having to lean on it hard.


Loony-ism I guess. A 200 NAB is 'show-off accurate' at 2700+ in my Sako Finnlight, but this requires 3gr over book. Tried the RL-22 and 200gr bullet, full case, not enough velocity, poor accuracy at least poor rifle range accuracy. I have not used this load for hunting, still using H-4350, 168TSX-BT @ 2885fps. Thinking that load might be a bit stiff, but is it as stiff as the 53gr RL-17/200gr load?

I used RL17 and H4350 when working up loads for my 243 and the 80gr TTSX. I ended up sticking with RL17 because of accuracy, not velocity. Although the RL17 was slightly faster(40-50fps), it was much more accurate in my particular rifle.

My concern with RL17 is temp sensitivity. After it gets good and cold here, I'll shoot a few and comparare notes.

John, the original question WAS a 200 at 2,850... I disagreed with that and incurred the wrath of logcutter. I've always maintained 2,800/200/24" "may" be possible with the sun, moon and stars aligning, but nothing more. And I'd still not go there.

Logcutter has constantly dragged you into this for some reason (likely to give credibility to his idiocy) but I'm still of the firm opinion 2,850 with a 200 from a 30-06 is, while possible, completely stupid.

But then the source should be considered.

Brad,

Yep, I agree completely on all points.

I load RL17 under moly'd 208 AMax in a 308 Win.

I've noted my velocities run around 2620 fps at 70F, and drop to around 2580 fps at 30F.

Rule of thumb, about 1 fps per degree of temp change.

Brad

First get it right..It was not about me but a man that shot all 29 species of North American game twice with a 30-06 plus he has taken 11 Grizzlies, 3 Kodiaks, and 2 Polar Bears.You were arguing with him telling him it was an overload..I only stepped in and showed data to back up his load...

He also PM'd me and ask me if I would post what John said about his load,and I said yes...

Jayco