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Campfire Tracker
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Maybe you can come up with rule book on max distance for a given caliber someone should be allowed to shoot an Elk. Could be handy for discussions such as these.
How many elk have you killed? that is why I am asking you.
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)
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blah blah blah. I know my rifles inside and out too, and still don't consider my 243 an ethical 700yd elk gun. I would not use your .243 Win either. I guess we agree on that point.  I think Barns [sic] is a hell of a shooter and has done a lot for LRH, but after finding out you didn't even put her on gongs for a few hours with the gun is kinda foolish. You put her behind the gun for one reason, to prove to the masses that a GB precision rig can kill stuff in the hands of a rookie.
Bingo - We have a winner! It's one thing to take the guys out for the first time and show them how to hit rocks at long range. Too bad John didn't do that first with the young lady. Methinks he jumped the gun for the sake of self-promotion. What is actually the funniest is the thought that I made the decision to shoot or not shoot. Of the three of us on the hill I can promise you I was the most hesitant about the shot. She was absolutely sure she could make the shot if the wind hold was right and the elevation worked as she had been told. The one thing I was absolutely sure of was the gun would hit under the crosshair and the .243 Win/105 VLD would cleanly kill that elk if the bullet landed in the vital zone. Who am I to tell a grown up to shoot or not shoot at her first elk. She understood the consequences of a bad shot and was way more prepared to deal with a problem than most of the other hunters I have seen shoot their first elk. I think we keep getting back to fragile egos and �Girls� should not shoot elk.  John I hope you don't think I'm trolling or anything here. I could care less if she was a 20 year old girl or a 70 year old man, it was a hell of a shot. I've been defending you over at CGN for 20+ pages of flack from others. I know you know your [bleep] more than anyone around here, myself included. It just kinda disturbed me to think you didnt have her bust rocks with the gun first. And if you think I missed the advertisement oppurtunities that this video puts forth you're mistaken. But seriously, thanks for answering the questions I've asked John. Keep doing what you're doing, SOB its working well.
Last edited by archie_james_c; 12/08/11.
If I were smart enough, which apparently I'm not
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Campfire Ranger
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My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Me
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Campfire Outfitter
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Everyone hates 'Stick because he actually speaks from experience, and drew his own conclusions. DC you really don't have a clue do ya?
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Campfire Greenhorn
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I always say- better to be lucky than good. By the way JM- what is the retained energy of a .243 slug at 700 yards? Is that VLD an actual hunting type bullet? Just becasue you can does not mena you should. You can kill an elk with a .22LR- does not mean you should. LRH should read LRS- Long Range Shooting. It aint hunting, and I maintain it is irresponsible. I get kind of tired of people reading the ammunition box and figuring that is the velocity/drop they are going to actually see. I also get kind of tired of hunters claiming their 12+ pound rifle is a 'hunting' rifle. Of course if your ATV or pick up or a gunbearer carries it what matter.
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Campfire Tracker
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I always say- better to be lucky than good. By the way JM- what is the retained energy of a .243 slug at 700 yards? Is that VLD an actual hunting type bullet? Just becasue you can does not mena you should. You can kill an elk with a .22LR- does not mean you should. LRH should read LRS- Long Range Shooting. It aint hunting, and I maintain it is irresponsible. I get kind of tired of people reading the ammunition box and figuring that is the velocity/drop they are going to actually see. I also get kind of tired of hunters claiming their 12+ pound rifle is a 'hunting' rifle. Of course if your ATV or pick up or a gunbearer carries it what matter. 11posts? Do you have rule book published to tell me how to hunt?
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)
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Super shooting...I just hate the thought of wounding something as fantastic as an elk, to show off your shooting skills, or more accurately your coaching skills.
Brag all day about hitting a postage stamp in a 40 mile an hour crosswind, with gusts to 80mph, at 1000 yards, with a .221 Fireball and I will be the first to cheer. If you miss the stamp, no big deal.
Crap can happen at any distance of course, and maybe this gal and her coach can make this shot 100 times out of 100, which at the much closer distances I shoot I fully expect to do.
Anyway, once again, super shooting!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I always say- better to be lucky than good. By the way JM- what is the retained energy of a .243 slug at 700 yards? Is that VLD an actual hunting type bullet? Just becasue you can does not mena you should. You can kill an elk with a .22LR- does not mean you should. LRH should read LRS- Long Range Shooting. It aint hunting, and I maintain it is irresponsible. I get kind of tired of people reading the ammunition box and figuring that is the velocity/drop they are going to actually see. I also get kind of tired of hunters claiming their 12+ pound rifle is a 'hunting' rifle. Of course if your ATV or pick up or a gunbearer carries it what matter. Why even bring up the "energy" bull [bleep] inelastic collision n. A collision between two particles in which part of their kinetic energy is transformed to another form of energy. The total amount of energy remains the same. inelastic collision (n-lstk) Physics A collision between bodies in which the total kinetic energy of the bodies is not conserved. In an inelastic collision, the total momentum of the two bodies remains the same, but some of the initial kinetic energy is transformed into heat energy internal to the bodies, used up in deforming the bodies, or radiated away in some other fashion. Inelastic collisions, such as the collision of two balls of clay, tend to result in the slowing and sometimes the joining together of the colliding bodies. Comapre elastic collision. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inelastic+collisionelastic collision n. Physics A collision of particles in which the total kinetic energy of the particles is conserved stic collision (-lstk) Physics A collision between bodies in which the total kinetic energy of the bodies is conserved. In a perfectly elastic collision, no energy is dissipated as heat energy internal to the bodies, and none is spent on permanently deforming the bodies or radiated away in some other fashion. Elastic collisions, such as the collision of a rubber ball on a hard surface, result in the reflection or "bouncing" of bodies away from each other. Comapre inelastic collision. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elastic+collision![[Linked Image]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/BallisticsPendulum.gif)
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Member
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Who am I to tell a grown up to shoot or not shoot at her first elk. She understood the consequences of a bad shot and was way more prepared to deal with a problem than most of the other hunters I have seen shoot their first elk.
Impressive to see a big animal like that fold to a 243 at that range. And just to clarify and keep things in perspective, the consequence of a bad shot is more of a problem for the elk, it's not nearly as painful for her. 
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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I get kind of tired of people reading the ammunition box and figuring that is the velocity/drop they are going to actually see. I also get kind of tired of hunters claiming their 12+ pound rifle is a 'hunting' rifle. Obviously you are skilled at getting right to the crux of a situation. Congratulations on your insightful evaluation.  I was actually there and missed the problem concerning the bad drop data on the ammo box, much less when the hunters were claiming their 12+ rifle was a �hunting� rifle.  If you had not pointed those issues out I would still be clueless and you are to be admired for your powers of observation.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Campfire Ranger
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I always say- better to be lucky than good. By the way JM- what is the retained energy of a .243 slug at 700 yards? Is that VLD an actual hunting type bullet? Just becasue you can does not mena you should. You can kill an elk with a .22LR- does not mean you should. LRH should read LRS- Long Range Shooting. It aint hunting, and I maintain it is irresponsible. I get kind of tired of people reading the ammunition box and figuring that is the velocity/drop they are going to actually see. I also get kind of tired of hunters claiming their 12+ pound rifle is a 'hunting' rifle. Of course if your ATV or pick up or a gunbearer carries it what matter. It is if you hit them in the goggler. What a tool.
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Great shooting and video!
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I always say- better to be lucky than good. By the way JM- what is the retained energy of a .243 slug at 700 yards? Enough obviously. Do you know what it is? Is that VLD an actual hunting type bullet? In this case...yup. Just becasue you can does not mena you should. You can kill an elk with a .22LR- does not mean you should. No that'd be [bleep] stupid. Killin an elk with a capable round like a .243 on the other isnt ([bleep] stupid). LRH should read LRS- Long Range Shooting. It aint hunting, and I maintain it is irresponsible. Look up the definition of hunting. Everything in that video was hunting. Just because it's not YOUR idea of hunting dont make it wrong. I get kind of tired of people reading the ammunition box and figuring that is the velocity/drop they are going to actually see. I also get kind of tired of hunters claiming their 12+ pound rifle is a 'hunting' rifle. Of course if your ATV or pick up or a gunbearer carries it what matter. Not even gonna comment on how dumb the rest of this is.
Last edited by archie_james_c; 12/08/11.
If I were smart enough, which apparently I'm not
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Campfire Tracker
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What is starting to bother me about the campfire is all the negativity. Instead of being happy for a person taking her first elk, making a clean shot, and making a great shots, people have to ruin it by being negative. Nobody is perfect and as much as they think they are God's gift to hunting, I am sure everyone has made a poor decision, made a poor shot or taken a shot they shouldn't have. Regardless if it was a bird, a chuck, a deer, an elk. They are all animals, all have lives, all suffer if wounded. you can't say one life is worth more than another and be ethical. If you wanna talk ethics, all animals should be treated with respect. However I am sure many bashing this elk shot go out and try to prove how great they are shooting dogs, chucks, and the likes at hundreds of yards and don't worry about if they wound the animal or not. Then they come home get on here and bash someone for doing the same shooting but at a bigger target. both targets are animals and both should be respected, apparently they are treated differently. Guess ethics go out the window there.
If I had the money, I wouldn't pay for JB's rifles, because I can set one up similar for less. However if I did, it would be out of convenience. His systems seem to be awesome and accurate. Good for him, the vid shows what can be done with a capable shooter who is confident that has a rifle that is set up properly. To him I say a job well done for a wonderful rifle build. To the gal I say great shot. Not one I would have wanted to take, but glad it worked out well and for having confidence in the tool you were using. I am not going to bash him or her, no need to. But I will congratulate them on a successful hunt.
Too much hating going on around here. What ever happened to disagreeing but still being happy for someone? So much hatred around here that I am starting to believe people are getting mad that they are proved wrong that a 243 can kill an elk and that a girl can shoot better than them. Again a shot I wouldn't have taken with a 243, but more power to her if she felt she could and if she felt the round had enough to cleanly kill the elk.
People also get into precision. I bet most hunters can shoot a 243 better than a 300 win mag or a 30-06. Less recoil, less flinch, less fear. They don't worry about the kick, only making the shot. With a 243 one can make a better shot because of it. I would bet that more people would be more accurate with that 243 than a 7RM, 300WM, 30-06, even 270. Being sure the shot is perfect makes the shot better aswell. I bet most people think to themselves "I have a big round, so if I make a less than perfect shot that is ok because I have the extra power" With a smaller round you can't say that and have to think a perfect shot every time which is what people should say with their manly monster guns too.
I don't have a dog in this, I just get bothered by people who think they are perfect and can't just be happy for a person having success.
Kique
Enrique O. Ramirez
CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
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+1 ....love the goggler line too...gotta remember that one.
If I were smart enough, which apparently I'm not
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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+1 ....love the goggler line too...gotta remember that one. Laffin, JB and JM came up with that.
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Very nice...you would have thought it was a magnum...good for her and great shot!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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.....I get kind of tired of people reading the ammunition box and figuring that is the velocity/drop they are going to actually see. You think that's bad, most times I get my ammo out of a Ziploc baggie!!! I'm REALLY at a disadvantage.
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