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Joined: Apr 2006
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 43 |
It really depends on your hunting situation. If I were trying to plug a bull moose standing broadside at 75 yards, I would be happy with 2700 fps.
A lot of my hunting is on the prairie and most of my shots are at running antelope, deer and coyotes. I know that sports writers and more than half the hunting world only shoots at animals that are posing for them. However, in much of my shooting, they are either running or a LONG ways away. If you aren't prepared to shoot these with confidence, you will probably have to eat your tag or keep feeding your chickens to the coyotes.
I shoot tons of prairie dogs for range practice. Speed is EVERYTHING for me. So I shoot the fastest bullet that has enough energy for the game at hand. I need the bullet to hit where the cross hairs are, at least until they get out there a couple hundred yards. I want enough speed so I can accurately estimate holdover and windage out to 400 yards while they are on the fly and out to 1000 yards if they are standing still. It takes a lot of practice to make these shots with confidence but you just can't do as easily at slow speeds. Most of my family shoots 22-250 or 25-06 for these hunting conditions (with ranges in accordance with bullet energy).
I usually use a 25-06 100g at 3350 for deer and antelope but shoot a ton of 75g bullets at 3750 for varmints. I also shoot a 130g .300 Dakota at 3900 fps if I am expecting longer shots. I use Berger 210s in that one at 2850 if they are posing at 700-1000 yards.
Sorry .308 shooters but you won't catch me lining up on a 65mph antelope at 250 yards with a .308... sorry... that's just me. Last year I antelope hunted with a pretty good military veteran shooting his .308 sniper rifle. I'm sure that if the antelope had ever stood still, he could have hit one easily at 400 yards. He ended the season down 80 rounds and had to eat tag soup. I kept trying to call his leads for him but they changed so fast, he couldn't keep up. 9 feet, 18 feet, 32 feet, 87 feet... good luck with that.
I don't shoot any rifle over reasonable pressure levels. That is why I use a .300 Dakota too.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,893
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
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It really depends on your hunting situation. If I were trying to plug a bull moose standing broadside at 75 yards, I would be happy with 2700 fps.
A lot of my hunting is on the prairie and most of my shots are at running antelope, deer and coyotes. I know that sports writers and more than half the hunting world only shoots at animals that are posing for them. However, in much of my shooting, they are either running or a LONG ways away. If you aren't prepared to shoot these with confidence, you will probably have to eat your tag or keep feeding your chickens to the coyotes.
I shoot tons of prairie dogs for range practice. Speed is EVERYTHING for me. So I shoot the fastest bullet that has enough energy for the game at hand. I need the bullet to hit where the cross hairs are, at least until they get out there a couple hundred yards. I want enough speed so I can accurately estimate holdover and windage out to 400 yards while they are on the fly and out to 1000 yards if they are standing still. It takes a lot of practice to make these shots with confidence but you just can't do as easily at slow speeds. Most of my family shoots 22-250 or 25-06 for these hunting conditions (with ranges in accordance with bullet energy).
I usually use a 25-06 100g at 3350 for deer and antelope but shoot a ton of 75g bullets at 3750 for varmints. I also shoot a 130g .300 Dakota at 3900 fps if I am expecting longer shots. I use Berger 210s in that one at 2850 if they are posing at 700-1000 yards.
Sorry .308 shooters but you won't catch me lining up on a 65mph antelope at 250 yards with a .308... sorry... that's just me. Last year I antelope hunted with a pretty good military veteran shooting his .308 sniper rifle. I'm sure that if the antelope had ever stood still, he could have hit one easily at 400 yards. He ended the season down 80 rounds and had to eat tag soup. I kept trying to call his leads for him but they changed so fast, he couldn't keep up. 9 feet, 18 feet, 32 feet, 87 feet... good luck with that.
I don't shoot any rifle over reasonable pressure levels. That is why I use a .300 Dakota too. Bullets matter far more than headstamps,though obviously both stump you...more than a little. You are so full of schit,it's plum [bleep] amazing. With luck you'll feel brazen enough to say a little sumptin' about rifle particulars and muse glass too. Laffin' in advance.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
It really depends on your hunting situation. If I were trying to plug a bull moose standing broadside at 75 yards, I would be happy with 2700 fps.
A lot of my hunting is on the prairie and most of my shots are at running antelope, deer and coyotes. I know that sports writers and more than half the hunting world only shoots at animals that are posing for them. However, in much of my shooting, they are either running or a LONG ways away. If you aren't prepared to shoot these with confidence, you will probably have to eat your tag or keep feeding your chickens to the coyotes.
I shoot tons of prairie dogs for range practice. Speed is EVERYTHING for me. So I shoot the fastest bullet that has enough energy for the game at hand. I need the bullet to hit where the cross hairs are, at least until they get out there a couple hundred yards. I want enough speed so I can accurately estimate holdover and windage out to 400 yards while they are on the fly and out to 1000 yards if they are standing still. It takes a lot of practice to make these shots with confidence but you just can't do as easily at slow speeds. Most of my family shoots 22-250 or 25-06 for these hunting conditions (with ranges in accordance with bullet energy).
I usually use a 25-06 100g at 3350 for deer and antelope but shoot a ton of 75g bullets at 3750 for varmints. I also shoot a 130g .300 Dakota at 3900 fps if I am expecting longer shots. I use Berger 210s in that one at 2850 if they are posing at 700-1000 yards.
Sorry .308 shooters but you won't catch me lining up on a 65mph antelope at 250 yards with a .308... sorry... that's just me. Last year I antelope hunted with a pretty good military veteran shooting his .308 sniper rifle. I'm sure that if the antelope had ever stood still, he could have hit one easily at 400 yards. He ended the season down 80 rounds and had to eat tag soup. I kept trying to call his leads for him but they changed so fast, he couldn't keep up. 9 feet, 18 feet, 32 feet, 87 feet... good luck with that.
I don't shoot any rifle over reasonable pressure levels. That is why I use a .300 Dakota too. I used to book hunts for an elk Hunting Guide in central MT who would not allow hunters to shoot at running Elk, but he cackled with glee and had great fun allowing hunters to shoot whole boxes of ammo at running Antelope, ribbing them the whole time. A 65 year old tough as nails real cowboy turned into a giggling kid again with the onset of Antelope Season and another plie of 'sports' coming out to tryu thier hand at MT speed goats. He considered the 257WBY to be the consumate weapon for these. He liked 300WBY and 340WBY for Elk. This has been over 20 years ago so I doubt that he is guiding anymore. Neat guy who had seen a lot of change in his beloved Montana over the years. Speed does help when range and such cannot be exactly known before a shot is taken.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200 |
Anybody who shoots 80 rounds at animals does not deserve to hunt! No respect for the animals or himself!!!!!!!!!!!! Killing animals is very very easy. For the 308 it cuts the wind fairly nice compaired to a 25 or a 22. I love the 25's got one in about every closet and kill lots of stuff on a fairly reg bases ;however, sorry ass bc's. Lots better choices if your a one rifle man.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
I shoot hundreds of rounds in a day shooting ground squirrels. I guess that I am unfit as a hunter. Have rifles, and nice ones, from 224-416 and many in between. The 257WBY is my favorite for open plains medium game hunting.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200 |
Will your a Piss pour hunter and shot if it takes 80 rounds before you hit something. I shoot hundreds of rounds in a day shooting ground squirrels. I guess that I am unfit as a hunter. Have rifles, and nice ones, from 224-416 and many in between. The 257WBY is my favorite for open plains medium game hunting.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
Well you didn't say exactly THAT, now did ya? Oh and.... 260's, 7/08's, 308's and the rest of the clan just plain SUCK!  (Well, maybe not the 358)
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200 |
I see your not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I was referring to your girlfriends post Mickey. Stick with booking hunts!
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
Your post says 'RE Safairman' so that would lead us to beleive that the dull blade would be you sir. And, FWIW, my IQ tests out at 148. Be glad to have a battle with ya, wits or otherwise. I was kidding with you and pullin a few chains for effect. Sorry that your tenderness could not handle a little ribbing before getting all pink and weepy, thus resorting to an unwarranted and ill stated foundless personal attack. If you had been around here for a while and not a tough talking newby trying to make a name for yourself when there is none to be made you would know that I have been out of the hunt booking and guiding business for a while now. Just writing about guns and buying and selling them these days, plus hunting and shooting them a lot. All the best, MARK
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,009
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,009 |
I tend to agree with Mr. Barsness and what he wrote in Handloader 244 / Dec.- Jan 2007. It may still be on their web site and is a good read.
"The Perfect Velocity"
"2700 fps or Bust"
"An open message for all Democrats; "Look you are nothing and your work is worthless. Anyone who chooses you is detestable."
Isaiah 41:24 (HCSB)
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,311 Likes: 18
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,311 Likes: 18 |
Sorry .308 shooters but you won't catch me lining up on a 65mph antelope.......
There, fixed it for you.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,484
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,484 |
I've long since gotten over trying to squeeze every last fps that I could out of a given cartgridge. But I still try to not leave anything on the table. I don't shoot a 223/223AI to get 22Hornet speeds, a 243/243AI to get 6-250 speeds, a 25-06/25-06AI to get 250savage speeds, a 280 to get 7-08 speeds, a 308 to get 30-30 speeds...etc. To each their own.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200 |
This dog bites back. You attacked me. I have saw a lot of guys like-u. I bit your one of those guys with a vault full of hand made rifles without a scratch! while in a room full of people cant stop flapping his dinger-sucker and dazzling people with bullshit! Know get you 416 and go shoot a ground Squirrel. Your post says 'RE Safairman' so that would lead us to beleive that the dull blade would be you sir. And, FWIW, my IQ tests out at 148. Be glad to have a battle with ya, wits or otherwise. I was kidding with you and pullin a few chains for effect. Sorry that your tenderness could not handle a little ribbing before getting all pink and weepy, thus resorting to an unwarranted and ill stated foundless personal attack. If you had been around here for a while and not a tough talking newby trying to make a name for yourself when there is none to be made you would know that I have been out of the hunt booking and guiding business for a while now. Just writing about guns and buying and selling them these days, plus hunting and shooting them a lot. All the best, MARK
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,390 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,390 Likes: 10 |
Why can't we all just get along? I was wondering what was wrong with the Savage Collectors forum and posted this forum up as poster kids for good manners. Like they say, "How's that workin' out for ya?" Not real good. Over there, I'm the "jack off newbie", so why don't you guys rip into me for a while and let the small fish go?
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm glad im not the only newbie.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044 |
A lot of my hunting is on the prairie and most of my shots are at running antelope, deer and coyotes.
Sorry .308 shooters but you won't catch me lining up on a 65mph antelope at 250 yards with a .308... sorry... that's just me. Last year I antelope hunted with a pretty good military veteran shooting his .308 sniper rifle. I'm sure that if the antelope had ever stood still, he could have hit one easily at 400 yards. He ended the season down 80 rounds and had to eat tag soup. I kept trying to call his leads for him but they changed so fast, he couldn't keep up. 9 feet, 18 feet, 32 feet, 87 feet... good luck with that.
I don't shoot any rifle over reasonable pressure levels. That is why I use a .300 Dakota too.
Wow. If "most" of your shooting the game is "running or a long ways way away" you need to work on your hunting skills. Anyone that flings 80 .308 rounds at antelope with their "sniper rifle" and eats tag soup needs to work on their shooting. I'm not a huge fan of the .308, but it's more than adequate for antelope with most bullets on the market.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 592
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 592 |
The difference between a 300 Dakota and a .308 at 400 yards is only 6", or about a 30% reduction in hold over (same holds to m leads should you be foolish enough to shoot at running animals). That doesn't explain 80 missed shots. You pay very dearly for those few inches - a doubling in recoil for the same weight rifle.
Most guys can adjust their holdover. Few can adjust to 30 foot pounds of recoil and shoot accurately. Sounds like you folks need to work less on your rifles and ballistics and more on your hunting skills.
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889 |
Okay, it's cold and rainy here in North Texas, so let's start a chit storm.
I get SO TIRED of reading these forums with shooters trying to wring out every bit of velocity in their rifles. WHY???!!!
RE: If you have a .270 and want to load it till it's blowin primers and spittin fire, why didn't you get a 7mm mag, .7mmWSM, .300 Win. Mag? Same can be said for many calibers we shoot. I'm talking centerfire hunting rifles.
Just like the thread below asking about the 7mmWSM. You get one to shoot a LONG way to hit an X-ring or heart lung area. The 7mmX57 is a GREAT caliber, as is the 7mm-08 but I would count on it it to hit and kill anything at 700 yards.
Agree or disagreee????? i have always been a fan of high velocity, as my display names shows--but by high velocity i don't mean wringing all you can out of a cartridge--doing that is for tin horns. my idea of high velocity would be to choose a 22-250 over a 222, or a 221 fireball over a 22 hornet, and liking the results--sanely and safely. i've seen tin horn handloaders blow primers, rupture cases, stick cases and bolts, and damage bolt faces, etc., all in the quest for a pittance more, when all they had to do was use a greater cartridge--whether factory or wildcat. in 39 years of handloading i've never done any of that--and have loaded and fired in the 10's of thousands of rounds. out to about 375 yards, there ain't nothing better than high velocity-- high velocity is mighty good medicine for sure, but "it's a constantly diminishing variable"... heavier weight and higher bc is "the constant"... folks seem to swing between one or the other, for whatever their reasons might be--but for the ultimate in shooting, why not have both? it seems to me that something like what john burns is comfortably using in the field--(243 or 264 win mag for ex.)is a real fine system in merging these two concepts together, the results of which are going to be just about unbeatable--try as someone may... high velocity is where it's at--where it begins, and retained velocity is where it's at--and ends... it was for this reason that 38 years ago i formed the initial, early fascination with the concept of long, heavy (80 grain) bullets in a .22 centerfire--good bc and high initial velocity, about rubbing shoulders with a 22-250 at the start, and high retained velocity at the end. i bought my first scope with external knobs or "turrets" in 1977, the then new weaver T10, which was pretty fine medicine back then, though the parallax adjustment on it was java man... today i still use a few rifles with turrets, but the bulk of my shooting is 400--500 yards and under, and in most situations i don't need them--which is the beauty of high velocity...
all learning is like a funnel:
however, contrary to popular thought, one begins with the the narrow end.
the more you progress, the more it expands into greater discovery--and the less of an audience you will have...
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
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HYDROSTSTIC SHOCK IS A BITCH,it makes things go in directions it wasn't meant to.I'm a speed freak.Skeeter
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
Yep. Speed is a killer, and impact (not muzzle) speeds of over 2700FPS are wicked.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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